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Author Topic: (merged) B-52 Nukes Headed for Iran, Not For Decommissioning: Airforce Refused  (Read 3483 times)

mgod

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http://www.oregontruthalliance.org/?q=node/245

Air Force refused to fly weapons to Middle East theater
By Wayne Madsen
Sept. 24, 2007


WMR has learned from U.S. and foreign intelligence sources that the B-52 transporting six stealth AGM-129 Advanced Cruise Missiles, each armed with a W-80-1 nuclear warhead, on August 30, were destined for the Middle East via Barksdale Air Force Base in Louisiana.

However, elements of the Air Force, supported by U.S. intelligence agency personnel, successfully revealed the ultimate destination of the nuclear weapons and the mission was aborted due to internal opposition within the Air Force and U.S. Intelligence Community.

Yesterday, the /Washington Post/ attempted to explain away the fact that America's nuclear command and control system broke down in an unprecedented manner by reporting that it was the result of "security failures at multiple levels." It is now apparent that the command and control breakdown, reported as a BENT SPEAR incident to the Secretary of Defense and White House, was not the result of a command and control chain-of-command "failures" but the result of a revolt and push back by various echelons within the Air Force and intelligence agencies against a planned U.S. attack on Iran using nuclear and conventional
weapons.

The /Washington Post/ story on BENT SPEAR may have actually been an effort in damage control by the Bush administration. WMR has been informed by a knowledgeable source that one of the six nuclear-armed cruise missiles was, and may still be, unaccounted for. In that case, the nuclear reporting incident would have gone far beyond BENT SPEAR to a National Command Authority alert known as EMPTY QUIVER, with the special classification of PINNACLE.

Just as this report was being prepared, /Newsweek/ reported that Vice President Dick Cheney's recently-departed Middle East adviser, David Wurmser, told a small group of advisers some months ago that Cheney had considered asking Israel to launch a missile attack on the Iranian nuclear site at Natanz. Cheney reasoned that after an Iranian retaliatory strike, the United States would have ample reasons to launch its own massive attack on Iran. However, plans for Israel to attack Iran directly were altered to an Israeli attack on a supposed Syrian-Iranian-North Korean nuclear installation in northern Syria.

WMR has learned that a U.S. attack on Iran using nuclear and conventional weapons was scheduled to coincide with Israel's September 6 air attack on a reputed Syrian nuclear facility in Dayr az-Zwar, near the village of Tal Abyad, in northern Syria, near the Turkish border. Israel's attack, code named OPERATION ORCHARD, was to provide a reason for the U.S. to strike Iran. The neo-conservative propaganda onslaught was to cite the cooperation of the George Bush's three remaining "Axis of Evil" states -- Syria, Iran, and North Korea -- to justify a sustained Israeli attack on Syria and a massive U.S. military attack on Iran.

WMR has learned from military sources on both sides of the Atlantic that there was a definite connection between Israel's OPERATION ORCHARD and BENT SPEAR involving the B-52 that flew the six nuclear-armed cruise missiles from Minot Air Force Base in North Dakota to Barksdale. There is also a connection between these two events as the Pentagon's highly-classified PROJECT CHECKMATE, a compartmented U.S. Air Force program that has been working on an attack plan for Iran since June 2007, around the same time that Cheney was working on the joint Israeli-U.S. attack scenario on Iran.

PROJECT CHECKMATE was leaked in an article by military analyst Eric Margolis in the Rupert Murdoch-owned newspaper, the /Times of London/, is a program that involves over two dozen Air Force officers and is headed by Brig. Gen. Lawrence Stutzriem and his chief civilian adviser, Dr. Lani Kass, a former Israeli military intelligence officer who, astoundingly, is now involved in planning a joint U.S.-Israeli massive military attack on Iran that involves a "decapitating" blow on Iran by hitting between three to four thousand targets in the country. Stutzriem and Kass report directly to the Air Force Chief of Staff, General Michael Moseley, who has also been charged with preparing a report on the B-52/nuclear weapons incident.

Kass' area of speciality is cyber-warfare, which includes ensuring "information blockades," such as that imposed by the Israeli government on the Israeli media regarding the Syrian air attack on the alleged Syrian "nuclear installation." British intelligence sources have reported that the Israeli attack on Syria was a "true flag" attack originally designed to foreshadow a U.S. attack on Iran. After the U.S. Air Force push back against transporting the six cruise nuclear-armed AGM-129s to the Middle East, Israel went ahead with its attack on Syria in order to help ratchet up tensions between Washington on one side and Damascus, Tehran, and Pyongyang on the other.

The other part of CHECKMATE's brief is to ensure that a media "perception management" is waged against Syria, Iran, and North Korea. This involves articles such as that which appeared with Joby Warrick's and Walter Pincus' bylines in yesterdays /Washington Post/. The article, titled "The Saga of a Bent Spear," quotes a number of seasoned Air Force nuclear weapons experts as saying that such an incident is unprecedented in the history of the Air Force. For example, Retired Air Force General Eugene Habiger, the former chief of the U.S. Strategic Command, said he has been in the "nuclear business" since 1966 and has never been aware of an incident "more disturbing."

Command and control breakdowns involving U.S. nuclear weapons are unprecedented, except for that fact that the U.S. military is now waging an internal war against neo-cons who are embedded in the U.S. government and military chain of command who are intent on using nuclear weapons in a pre-emptive war with Iran.

CHECKMATE and OPERATION ORCHARD would have provided the cover for a pre-emptive U.S. and Israeli attack on Iran had it not been for BENT SPEAR involving the B-52. In on the plan to launch a pre-emptive attack on Iran involving nuclear weapons were, according to our sources, Cheney, National Security Adviser Stephen Hadley; members of the CHECKMATE team at the Pentagon, who have close connections to Israeli intelligence and pro-Israeli think tanks in Washington, including the Hudson Institute; British Foreign Secretary David Miliband, a political adviser to Tony Blair prior to becoming a Member of Parliament; Israeli political leaders like Prime Minister Ehud Olmert and Likud leader Binyamin Netanyahu; and French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner, who did his part last week to ratchet up tensions with Iran by suggesting that war with Iran was a probability. Kouchner retracted his statement after the U.S. plans for Iran were delayed.

Although the Air Force tried to keep the B-52 nuclear incident from the media, anonymous Air Force personnel leaked the story to /Military Times/ on September 5, the day before the Israelis attacked the alleged nuclear installation in Syria and the day planned for the simultaneous U.S. attack on Iran. The leaking of classified information on U.S. nuclear weapons disposition or movement to the media, is, itself, unprecedented. Air Force regulations require the sending of classified BEELINE reports to higher Air Force authorities on the disclosure of classified Air Force information to the media.

In another highly unusual move, Defense Secretary Robert Gates has asked an outside inquiry board to look into BENT SPEAR, even before the Air Force has completed its own investigation, a virtual vote of no confidence in the official investigation being conducted by Major General Douglas Raaberg, chief of air and space operations at the Air Combat Command.

Gates asked former Air Force Chief of Staff, retired General Larry Welch, to lead a Defense Science Board task force that will also look into the BENT SPEAR incident. The official Air Force investigation has reportedly been delayed for unknown reasons. Welch is President and CEO of the Institute for Defense Analysis (IDA), a federally-funded research contractor that operates three research centers, including one for Office of Science and Technology Policy in the Executive Office of the President and another for the National Security Agency. One of the board members of IDA is Dr. Suzanne H. Woolsey of the Paladin Capital Group and wife of former CIA director and arch-neocon James Woolsey.

WMR has learned that neither the upper echelons of the State Department nor the British Foreign Office were privy to OPERATION ORCHARD, although Hadley briefed President Bush on Israeli spy satellite intelligence that showed the Syrian installation was a joint nuclear facility built with North Korean and Iranian assistance. However, it is puzzling why Hadley would rely on Israeli imagery intelligence (IMINT) from its OFEK (Horizon) 7 satellite when considering that U.S. IMINT satellites have greater capabilities.

The Air Force's "information warfare" campaign against media reports on CHECKMATE and OPERATION ORCHARD also affected international reporting of the recent International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) resolution asking Israel to place its nuclear weapons program under IAEA controls, similar to those that the United States wants imposed on Iran and North Korea. The resolution also called for a nuclear-free zone throughout the Middle East. The IAEA's resolution, titled "Application of IAEA Safeguards in the Middle East," was passed by the 144-member IAEA General Meeting on September 20 by a vote of 53 to 2, with 47 abstentions. The only two countries to vote against were Israel and the United States. However, the story carried from the IAEA meeting in Vienna by Reuters, the Associated Press, and Agence France Press, was that it was Arab and Islamic nations that voted for the resolution.

This was yet more perception management carried out by CHECKMATE, the White House, and their allies in Europe and Israel with the connivance of the media. In fact, among the 53 nations that voted for the resolution were China, Russia, India, Ireland, and Japan. The 47 abstentions were described as votes "against" the resolution even though an abstention is neither a vote for nor against a measure. America's close allies, including Britain, France, Australia, Canada, and Georgia, all abstained.

Suspiciously, the IAEA carried only a brief item on the resolution concerning Israel's nuclear program and a roll call vote was not available either at the IAEA's web site -- <http://www.iaea.org>www.iaea.org -- or in the media.

The perception management campaign by the neocon operational cells in the Bush administration, Israel and Europe was designed to keep a focus on Iran's nuclear program, not on Israel's. Any international examination of Israel's nuclear weapons program would likely bring up Israeli nuclear scientist Mordechai Vanunu, a covert from Judaism to Christianity, who was kidnapped in Rome by a Mossad "honey trap" named Cheryl Bentov (aka, Cindy) and a Mossad team in 1986 and held against his will in Israel ever since.

Vanunu's knowledge of the Israeli nuclear weapons program would focus on the country's own role in nuclear proliferation, including its program to share nuclear weapons technology with apartheid South Africa and Taiwan in the late 1970s and 1980s. The role of Ronald Reagan's Director of the Arms Control and Disarmament Agency Ken Adelman in Israeli's nuclear proliferation during the time frame 1983-1987 would also come under scrutiny. Adelman, a member of the Reagan-Bush transition State Department team from November 1980 to January 1981, voiced his understanding for the nuclear weapons programs of Israel, South Africa, and Taiwan in a June 28, 1981 /New York Times/ article titled, "3 Nations Widening Nuclear Contacts." The journalist who wrote the article was Judith Miller. Adelman felt that the three countries wanted nuclear weapons because of their ostracism from the West, the third world, and the hostility from the Communist countries. Of course, today, the same argument can be used by Iran, North Korea, and other "Axis of Evil" nations so designated by the neocons in the Bush administration and other governments.

There are also news reports that suggest an intelligence relationship between Israel and North Korea. On July 21, 2004, New Zealand's /Dominion Post/ reported that three Mossad agents were involved in espionage in New Zealand. Two of the Mossad agents, Uriel Kelman and Elisha Cara (aka Kra), were arrested and imprisoned by New Zealand police (an Israeli diplomat in Canberra, Amir Lati, was expelled by Australia and New Zealand intelligence identified a fourth Mossad agent involved in the New Zealand espionage operation in Singapore). The third Mossad agent in New Zealand, Zev William Barkan (aka Lev Bruckenstein), fled New Zealand -- for North Korea.

New Zealand Foreign Minister Phil Goff revealed that Barkan, a former Israeli Navy diver, had previously worked at the Israeli embassy in Vienna, which is also the headquarters of the IAEA. He was cited by the /Sydney Morning Herald/ as trafficking in passports stolen from foreign tourists in Thailand, Myanmar,
Laos, and Cambodia. New Zealand's One News reported that Barkan was in North Korea to help the nation build a wall to keep its citizens from leaving.

The nuclear brinkmanship involving the United States and Israel and the breakdown in America's command and control systems have every major capital around the world wondering about the Bush administration's true intentions.

NOTE: WMR understands the risks to informed individuals in reporting the events of August 29/30, to the present time, that concern the discord within the U.S. Air Force, U.S. intelligence agencies, and other military services. Any source with relevant information and who wishes to contact us anonymously may drop off sealed correspondence at or send mail via the Postal Service to: Wayne Madsen, c/o The Front Desk, National Press Club, 13th Floor, 529 14th St., NW, Washington, DC, 20045.
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PookyNMR

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Re: Conspiracies abound
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2007, 12:23:47 pm »

I sure hope this isn't true....
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Nathan Rousu

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Re: Conspiracies abound
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2007, 12:30:44 pm »

It's high time Cheney is impeached.  There's a clandestine government within the government that needs to be excised.

Barry Hufker

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Re: Conspiracies abound
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2007, 12:45:28 pm »

When I read this story in the online news, it just didn't sound right to me.  How does one accidentally procure and accidentally load nuclear warheads.  Sure you can get them at WalMart but actually getting them loaded on a military plane?

Barry
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Berolzheimer

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Re: Conspiracies abound
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2007, 05:43:55 pm »

Barry Hufker wrote on Fri, 28 September 2007 09:45

When I read this story in the online news, it just didn't sound right to me.  How does one accidentally procure and accidentally load nuclear warheads.  Sure you can get them at WalMart but actually getting them loaded on a military plane?

Barry


Seemed pretty unlikely to me to, and Barksdale is known as the staging ground for Middle East operations.  And I keep hearing conflicting accounts as to whether it's 5 missiles or 6.

FWIW I didn't recognize the name "WMR" so I did some looking, it's the Wayne Madsen report.
Here's who he is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wayne_Madsen

http://www.waynemadsenreport.com

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mgod

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Re: Conspiracies abound
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2007, 08:56:23 pm »

PookyNMR wrote on Fri, 28 September 2007 09:23

I sure hope this isn't true....

If it is, I certainly like the idea of the military standing up to this. It does seem a little romantic though.

I've felt for some time that it would be the military, the Generals and Joint Chiefs, who would be the last bulwark of democracy against these guys, like the general in the 30's who resisted the planned businessman's coup against FDR.

DS
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bblackwood

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B-52 Nukes Headed for Iran, Not For Decommissioning: Airforce Refused
« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2007, 12:07:31 pm »

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=69 09

If this is true, God help us all...
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Brad Blackwood
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PookyNMR

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bblackwood

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Re: B-52 Nukes Headed for Iran, Not For Decommissioning: Airforce Refused
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2007, 12:39:35 pm »

Oops...
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Brad Blackwood
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maxdimario

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Re: B-52 Nukes Headed for Iran, Not For Decommissioning: Airforce Refused
« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2007, 02:50:41 pm »

well it's good you mentioned it again because I missed it, and perhaps others did as well!

I hope people will wake up soon regarding the CIA and everything which is 'secret' about the us government.

you have to face up to the fact that the 'government' is not 100% USA controlled.. there is a large part of political and military action which is actually the result of 'organized business' tactics.

I imagine that they wanted to blow up something big time and blame it on the terrorist of the month (I'll read the full report in mgod's post tomorrow when I have time)
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CCC

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Re: B-52 Nukes Headed for Iran, Not For Decommissioning: Airforce Refused
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2007, 03:25:04 pm »

maxdimario wrote on Mon, 01 October 2007 14:50

well it's good you mentioned it again because I missed it, and perhaps others did as well!

I hope people will wake up soon regarding the CIA and everything which is 'secret' about the us government.

you have to face up to the fact that the 'government' is not 100% USA controlled.. there is a large part of political and military action which is actually the result of 'organized business' tactics.

I imagine that they wanted to blow up something big time and blame it on the terrorist of the month (I'll read the full report in mgod's post tomorrow when I have time)


I think we need a place on PSW named "lunatic fringe and crackpot theories," since "saloon" isn't sufficiently descriptive of what often gets posted here.
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Tidewater

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Re: Conspiracies abound
« Reply #11 on: October 01, 2007, 03:34:48 pm »

Awesome. Mutinous intelligence agencies.

Nuke Iran now.


M
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mgod

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Re: Conspiracies abound
« Reply #12 on: October 01, 2007, 03:46:45 pm »

Tidewater wrote on Mon, 01 October 2007 12:34

Awesome. Mutinous intelligence agencies.

Nuke Iran now.


M

You do it - personally.

Then we can take your seriousness seriously. (You're not just talking big talk are you? Surely not!)

DS
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mgod

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Re: B-52 Nukes Headed for Iran, Not For Decommissioning: Airforce Refused
« Reply #13 on: October 01, 2007, 03:51:38 pm »

JS wrote on Mon, 01 October 2007 12:25

I think we need a place on PSW named "lunatic fringe and crackpot theories," since "saloon" isn't sufficiently descriptive of what often gets posted here.

And that would be the first thing to go in it...

The whole purpose of that phrase is to make indistinguishable what might be real but not well-known and what might be manufactured to blur the difference.

Edison invented electricity you know. He didn't? Well then, he invented our modern electric system. And J.E. Hoover was a patriot.

DS
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CCC

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Re: B-52 Nukes Headed for Iran, Not For Decommissioning: Airforce Refused
« Reply #14 on: October 01, 2007, 04:31:20 pm »

mgod wrote on Mon, 01 October 2007 15:51

JS wrote on Mon, 01 October 2007 12:25

I think we need a place on PSW named "lunatic fringe and crackpot theories," since "saloon" isn't sufficiently descriptive of what often gets posted here.

And that would be the first thing to go in it...

The whole purpose of that phrase is to make indistinguishable what might be real but not well-known and what might be manufactured to blur the difference.

Edison invented electricity you know. He didn't? Well then, he invented our modern electric system. And J.E. Hoover was a patriot.

DS



And you and maxdimario work for the CIA, and are in the business of spreading disinformation in the form of false conspiracy theories that are designed to throw people off the track of the really nasty things that the government, in collusion with big business and aliens from the planet Zarcon V, are truly up to. Seems plausible, some vague evidence to support it, no evidence to deny it. Lookit ma, I'm a bona fide conspiracy theorist.
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mgod

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Re: B-52 Nukes Headed for Iran, Not For Decommissioning: Airforce Refused
« Reply #15 on: October 01, 2007, 04:44:11 pm »

JS wrote on Mon, 01 October 2007 13:31

And you and maxdimario work for the CIA, and are in the business of spreading disinformation in the form of false conspiracy theories that are designed to throw people off the track of the really nasty things that the government, in collusion with big business and aliens from the planet Zarcon V, are truly up to. Seems plausible, some vague evidence to support it, no evidence to deny it. Lookit ma, I'm a bona fide conspiracy theorist.

Dammit - you figured us out...

But you missed the fact that I'm the reincarnation of J. Edgar Hoover and am still working for the mob, and we know where you live.

Its interesting btw that you've chosen this topic to deride as conspiracy given the fairly widespread coverage of it. It does sort of suggest a certain conspiracy-mindedness of your own, doesn't it?

DS
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Tidewater

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Re: Conspiracies abound
« Reply #16 on: October 01, 2007, 05:16:16 pm »

On the one hand, Rome is burning. On the other hand, I feel like an oarman in the Carthagenian navy.

Iran needs to be a molten example, lest they do what Hitler did in six years, only in six minutes this time.

It's not going away without a brutal prompt.

M
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mgod

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Re: Conspiracies abound
« Reply #17 on: October 01, 2007, 05:43:10 pm »

Clearly stated.

So are you volunteering?

DS
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Tidewater

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Yes. I'll do all the work, put me in, coach.


M
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mgod

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Well, some of the work at least. If the people who are in favor of this sort of thing had to put their asses on the line, we might see a lot less of it. Miles vs. Ahmadinejad, mano a mano!

Pro-war folks who have been or have family in there get a lot more respect from me - they're serious about it.

DS
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Tidewater

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We have more to lose than our lives, this is a struggle for civilization.

I have no kids. I have no family. I don't have any agenda, just the protection of humanity.

Break an egg.


M
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Joe Black

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Re: B-52 Nukes Headed for Iran, Not For Decommissioning: Airforce Refused
« Reply #21 on: October 01, 2007, 07:56:39 pm »

mgod wrote on Mon, 01 October 2007 16:44

I'm the reincarnation of J. Edgar Hoover


Um, would you mind the black silk evening dress, heels and a set of 38DD falsies? I'm buying dinner.
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Jon Hodgson

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Re: Conspiracies abound
« Reply #22 on: October 02, 2007, 05:34:14 am »

Tidewater wrote on Mon, 01 October 2007 22:16

Iran needs to be a molten example, lest they do what Hitler did in six years, only in six minutes this time.



Hitler was responsible for the death of 6 million Jews, you advocate the death of 65 million Iranians... so what does that make you?

Tidewater wrote on Mon, 01 October 2007 22:16

We have more to lose than our lives, this is a struggle for civilization.


What you advocate is not civilization, it is barbarity... and not even noble barbarity.
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maxdimario

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Quote:

And you and maxdimario work for the CIA


actually I quit as of yesterday.
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mgod

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Re: B-52 Nukes Headed for Iran, Not For Decommissioning: Airforce Refused
« Reply #24 on: October 02, 2007, 10:54:16 am »

Joe Black wrote on Mon, 01 October 2007 16:56

mgod wrote on Mon, 01 October 2007 16:44

I'm the reincarnation of J. Edgar Hoover


Um, would you mind the black silk evening dress, heels and a set of 38DD falsies?

I'm JEH - I already have 'em! (But you can call me Mary...)

Jon Hodgson wrote on Tue, 02 October 2007 02:34

Tidewater wrote on Mon, 01 October 2007 22:16

Iran needs to be a molten example, lest they do what Hitler did in six years, only in six minutes this time.



Hitler was responsible for the death of 6 million Jews, you advocate the death of 65 million Iranians... so what does that make you?

Tidewater wrote on Mon, 01 October 2007 22:16

We have more to lose than our lives, this is a struggle for civilization.


What you advocate is not civilization, it is barbarity... and not even noble barbarity.



JH, you are SO my man.

DS


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Jon Hodgson

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Re: B-52 Nukes Headed for Iran, Not For Decommissioning: Airforce Refused
« Reply #25 on: October 02, 2007, 11:08:24 am »

mgod wrote on Tue, 02 October 2007 15:54


Quote:


Um, would you mind the black silk evening dress, heels and a set of 38DD falsies?

I'm JEH - I already have 'em! (But you can call me Mary...)



mgod wrote on Tue, 02 October 2007 15:54


JH, you are SO my man.

DS



This thread is getting scary.

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Barry Hufker

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Re: B-52 Nukes Headed for Iran, Not For Decommissioning: Airforce Refused
« Reply #26 on: October 02, 2007, 11:09:00 am »

I've not visited this thread for a bit.  Ahhhhhh..... wha' happun?  

Barry
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Fox

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Re: B-52 Nukes Headed for Iran, Not For Decommissioning: Airforce Refused
« Reply #27 on: October 02, 2007, 11:14:40 am »

Well, this one guy volunteered to be Hitler x 11, Max left the CIA and we're quickly approaching a cross-dressing gay orgy.

I'm having a whisky sour and shaking my head in shame.



Fox
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mgod

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Re: B-52 Nukes Headed for Iran, Not For Decommissioning: Airforce Refused
« Reply #28 on: October 02, 2007, 11:30:40 am »

Fox wrote on Tue, 02 October 2007 08:14

I'm having a whisky sour...

Fox

At THIS time of the morning?

Don't forget, its a mob-hosted gay orgy in particular...

DS
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Fox

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Re: B-52 Nukes Headed for Iran, Not For Decommissioning: Airforce Refused
« Reply #29 on: October 02, 2007, 12:22:59 pm »

mgod wrote on Tue, 02 October 2007 11:30

Fox wrote on Tue, 02 October 2007 08:14

I'm having a whisky sour...

Fox

At THIS time of the morning?

Don't forget, its a mob-hosted gay orgy in particular...

DS


ugh... I better have another! Laughing
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Tidewater

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Re: B-52 Nukes Headed for Iran, Not For Decommissioning: Airforce Refused
« Reply #30 on: October 02, 2007, 01:51:01 pm »

You guys are idiots.

Did anyone say, "kill all Iranians."?

War is on, we are losing, btw.. I do see why.

Have your one-sided argument with yourselves, whatever makes you feel best. You don't make reality, you either participate in it, or not. I have none left to say to you.

Good luck, Tom Corbet.


M
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mgod

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Re: B-52 Nukes Headed for Iran, Not For Decommissioning: Airforce Refused
« Reply #31 on: October 02, 2007, 01:56:32 pm »

Tom Corbette...so cool.

DS
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maxdimario

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you know there's little to laugh about when the people running the country start 'exporting' cruise missiles with nuclear warheads to a place where a war is going on
Bush said there were nuclear weapons in the hands of arabs and he's gonna do it one way or another. Laughing

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Fox

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Re: B-52 Nukes Headed for Iran, Not For Decommissioning: Airforce Refused
« Reply #33 on: October 02, 2007, 02:36:18 pm »

Tidewater wrote on Tue, 02 October 2007 13:51

You guys are idiots.

Did anyone say, "kill all Iranians."?

War is on, we are losing, btw.. I do see why.

Have your one-sided argument with yourselves, whatever makes you feel best. You don't make reality, you either participate in it, or not. I have none left to say to you.

Good luck, Tom Corbet.


M


War isn't on with Iran yet. Nukes don't distinguish between soldiers and babies, not to mention the radiation...

Iran is a fairly small country with a fairly high population. Nuke Tehran, you're halfway to being Hitler already.

One of the many, many reasons that you are losing the Iraq war is that more people are embracing extremist philosophies; One of the reasons more people are embracing extremist philosophies is because many more people have lost family members from bombing and occupation, so they tend see the US as villains. Your solution to this problem is "Drop more bombs on 'em!"??

Way to think ahead.
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Joe Black

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Re: B-52 Nukes Headed for Iran, Not For Decommissioning: Airforce Refused
« Reply #34 on: October 02, 2007, 02:43:41 pm »

Fox wrote on Tue, 02 October 2007 11:14

Well, this one guy volunteered to be Hitler x 11, Max left the CIA and we're quickly approaching a cross-dressing gay orgy.

I'm having a whisky sour and shaking my head in shame.



Fox


I am not gay. Just because I like to have sex with the same sex in public restrooms does not make me gay. Just because I advocate killing 65million Iranians for something they MIGHT have or MIGHT do, does not make me Hitler.

Now make up your face like Hitler, put on those damn falsies and bend over the fucking toilet, I'm going totally not gay on your ass.
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maxdimario

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violence breeds madness
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organica

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Knock yourself out http://debka.com/


DEBKAfile reports: Russians employed at Iran's Bushehr nuclear reactor suddenly depart in a body, according to local Arab sources

October 1, 2007, 11:32 AM (GMT+02:00)


The Khorramshar News Agency, which is published by the ethnic Arab underground of Iran's oil-rich Khuzestan, reported early Oct. 1 that the entire staff of Russian nuclear engineers and experts employed in building the nuclear reactor at Bushehr had abruptly packed their bags Friday, Sept. 28, and flew back to Russia. The agency's one-liner offers no source or explanation. DEBKAfile have obtained no corroboration of its report from any other source.
The story appears to have originated with the ethnic Arabs who live near the reactor or who come in contact with its Russian staff. If true, DEBKAfile can offer three hypothetical scenarios to account for the Russians' precipitate departure:
1. Another crisis has cropped up in the patchy Russian-Iranian dealings over the Bushehr reactor. This is unlikely because Russian president Vladimar Putin is due for a high-profile visit to Tehran on Oct. 16, when he plans to sign a series of nuclear accords with the Islamic Republic. Furthermore, Moscow, like Beijing, stands foursquare behind Iran's efforts to delay harsher sanctions for its continued uranium enrichment. Only this week, the two powers gained Iran two to three months grace by forcing a delay in the UN Security Council session that was to have approved a third round of sanctions.
2. Moscow or Tehran has been tipped off that a US or Israeli attack is imminent on the Bushehr plant and Iran's other nuclear installations and acted to whip Russian personnel out of harms way.
3. Moscow has learned that an Iranian pre-emptive attack is imminent against American targets in Iraq and the Persian Gulf and/or Israel.
Aside from these hypothetical scenarios, DEBKAfiles Iranian sources report that the Khorramshar News Agency keeps its ear to the ground on happenings in Bushehr, because it is claimed by Khuzistan separatists as Arab land which they will fight to liberate from Iranian occupation.
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Barry Hufker

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Yep.... Iran....

Iraq - "I-raq" my brains trying to figure a way out of this debacle.

Iran - "I-ran" away from the mushroom cloud there -- and the one in New York.

Barry
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rankus

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Re: B-52 Nukes Headed for Iran, Not For Decommissioning: Airforce Refused
« Reply #38 on: October 03, 2007, 01:38:49 pm »



Well theres nothing like a couple of nukes parked outside the gates to get your attention... Not that I have an opinion as to whether it's a good idea or not.

(trying to get back on topic;)

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phantom309

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I'm not really getting a clear picture here with these posts.

A. DO you guys think Iran is building a nuke arsenal?

B. Do you think they'll use it or, at least, THREATEN to use it?

C. They obviously don't respond to diplomacy. What should be done about it? Nothing?

Regardless of all the nefarious things the west is guilty of, what next???
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Jay Kadis

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The US has thousands of nuclear warheads.  There are also nuclear-armed submarines all over the world at any given time.  Do you not think there are sufficient US nuclear weapons in the gulf already?

Iranian politicians may be a lot of things but they are most likely not suicidal idiots.  They have no hope of ever matching the US nuclear arsenal and they must know that.  They may want to manipulate their fledgling nuclear program into a bargaining chip as North Korea has apparently done.  They are walking a very tight line in the game but probably see their potential nuclear threat as their "ace-in-the-hole".   The problem is that Bush (Cheney) has his own agenda and we've seen the result of that in Iraq.  This could easily get out of hand if Congress doesn't tie the executive branch's hands WRT Iran.

The whole idea of nuclear weapon use is problematic as we learned with the 50-year standoff with the USSR.  Even tactical nuclear warheads carry an onus that has prevented their use until now.  Any nation that uses them risks universal ostracism at the least and annihilation at worst.  So barring certifiable insanity (which I'm afraid we cannot completely discount...) there is unlikely to be anyone willing to push the button.

mgod

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I see the North Korean situation as different from Iran because of its alliance with China. Is Iran allied with Russia? It seems to me Iran is more on its own. Also, the President isn't really the person to be paying attention to, although he does all the attention-getting things. We don't see much coverage of what the religious leadership has to say about this but that's where the power is, and where the decisions are made, as I understand it.

DS
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Jay Kadis

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Yes, Iran does have alliances with Russia, but rumor has it the Russians have left the building, as it were.  Reportedly the Russian technicians have been withdrawn from the nuclear facilities in Iran, which is a bit ominous.

There is significant question about who is in ultimate control in Iran and Ahmadinejad doesn't have the final say.  It's a pretty complicated situation to make sense of.  When I was in college there were many Iranian students in US universities.  I often wonder how they have managed back in Iran.  I suspect there is a significant undercurrent of liberal opposition that is buried deep in the Iranian population.  I hope it comes out before it's too late.

rankus

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My thought is that sending the missiles over and the "leaked" story is similar to being in argument and opening your jacket to show that you have a pistol on your belt... A quiet reminder that one has the upper hand (as others have mentioned in this thread)

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Ive done stuff I'm not proud of.. and the stuff I am proud of is disgusting ~ Moe Sizlack

"There is no crisis in energy, the crisis is in imagination" ~ Buckminster Fuller
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