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[bblackwood]

Andrew Hamilton wrote on Sun, 16 September 2007 11:45

Perhaps I've misunderstood the concept.  My 0 VU is at -12 dBFS.  That's what I cut at 9/10.  If you use a VU meter on your console and your 0 VU is -8 dBFS, aren't you thereby making a record that has an average level close to your 0 VU (i.e., -8 dBFS VU)?

No, I cut records where they need to be cut - sometimes that's @ 0VU, sometimes @-5dBVU, sometimes pegging the meters.

The meters are there to glance at for reference levels, they don't dictate anything...

[Andrew Hamilton]

bblackwood wrote on Sun, 16 September 2007 17:52

No, I cut records where they need to be cut - sometimes that's @ 0VU, sometimes @-5dBVU, sometimes pegging the meters. The meters are there to glance at for reference levels, they don't dictate anything...

Thanks for the clarification, Bob.  I guess that's why they are often referred to as "V[irtually] U[seless] meters."


(;

_andrew

P. S., I don't think I've ever cut louder than 0 VU (where 0 = -12 dBFS.)   Of course, I've never cut a Grammy, either, so it "cuts both ways."  

[bblackwood]

Andrew Hamilton wrote on Sun, 16 September 2007 19:55

bblackwood wrote on Sun, 16 September 2007 17:52 No, I cut records where they need to be cut - sometimes that's @ 0VU, sometimes @-5dBVU, sometimes pegging the meters. The meters are there to glance at for reference levels, they don't dictate anything... Thanks for the clarification, Bob.

No problem.

And you can call me Brad...

[dcollins]

Andrew Hamilton wrote on Sun, 16 September 2007 17:55

Thanks for the clarification, Basil.  I guess that's why they are often referred to as "V[irtually] U[seless] meters."

Actually VU meters are Very Useful, it's peak meters that are trouble.

For the record, I run -14dBfs = 0.775V through the analog gear at unity and -8dBfs = 0 VU and the end of the chain.

Keeping the analog levels low is a good thing.  It's easy enough to turn it up either at the A/D or digitally post-conversion.

DC

[Andrew Hamilton]

bblackwood wrote on Sun, 16 September 2007 21:55

Quote: Thanks for the clarification, Bob.   No problem. And you can call me Brad...

Sorry - Bob's my uncle.




_andrew

[Andrew Hamilton]

dcollins wrote on Sun, 16 September 2007 22:09

For the record, I run -14dBfs = 0.775V through the analog gear at unity and -8dBfs = 0 VU and the end of the chain.

So _you're_ the culprit...
I had thought that the way to use VUs was to have the "meat and potatoes" of the music hover at (or "recover to") 0 VU and to ignore transients that peg, unless you can hear distortion or see clipping on the peak meters.  But Brad, and apparently everyone, is watching his masters hover more in the left field of the VU, rather than the right.

dcollins wrote on Sun, 16 September 2007 22:09

Keeping the analog levels low is a good thing.  It's easy enough to turn it up either at the A/D or digitally post-conversion. DC

Thanks, Dhagilev.




_andrew

[Jerry Tubb]

dcollins wrote on Sun, 16 September 2007 21:09

For the record, I run -14dBfs = 0.775V through the analog gear at unity and -8dBfs = 0 VU and the end of the chain.

So -14dBfs = 0.775V is another way of saying -10dBfs = 1.23V, +4dBu, or 0VU.

JT

[Gold]

dcollins wrote on Sun, 16 September 2007 22:09

Actually VU meters are Very Useful, it's peak meters that are trouble.

A true American patriot.

[Bob Olhsson]

bblackwood wrote on Sat, 15 September 2007 14:11

More headroom for the analog chain. I think it sounds better...

Gee, and I thought you were supposed to clip everything...

[Andrew Hamilton]

From Bob Katz' _Mastering_Audio_:

"In an analog signal chain, raising the music signal level as high as practical as early as possible (within the limits imposed by headroom and clipping point of A/D converters) will improve the signal to noise ratio of the entire chain. Then, later in the mastering, we will reduce the signal level digitally in the digital chain that follows."


Hmm.  Good ideas all over the place.


_andrew

[bblackwood]

Andrew Hamilton wrote on Mon, 17 September 2007 20:12

From Bob Katz' _Mastering_Audio_: "In an analog signal chain, raising the music signal level as high as practical as early as possible (within the limits imposed by headroom and clipping point of A/D converters) will improve the signal to noise ratio of the entire chain. Then, later in the mastering, we will reduce the signal level digitally in the digital chain that follows." Hmm.  Good ideas all over the place.

I guess some people think measurements are more important than what they hear...

[Ben F]

Jerry Tubb wrote on Tue, 18 September 2007 03:20

dcollins wrote on Sun, 16 September 2007 21:09 For the record, I run -14dBfs = 0.775V through the analog gear at unity and -8dBfs = 0 VU and the end of the chain. So -14dBfs = 0.775V is another way of saying -10dBfs = 1.23V, +4dBu, or 0VU. JT

-18dBFS = 0.775V = 0dBu

-14dBFS = 1.23V = +4dBu (0VU)

[bobkatz]

bblackwood wrote on Mon, 17 September 2007 21:43

Andrew Hamilton wrote on Mon, 17 September 2007 20:12 From Bob Katz' _Mastering_Audio_: "In an analog signal chain, raising the music signal level as high as practical as early as possible (within the limits imposed by headroom and clipping point of A/D converters) will improve the signal to noise ratio of the entire chain. Then, later in the mastering, we will reduce the signal level digitally in the digital chain that follows." Hmm.  Good ideas all over the place. I guess some people think measurements are more important than what they hear...

I guess some people look at a quotation out of context and think that they have read an entire book.

[bblackwood]

bobkatz wrote on Wed, 19 September 2007 04:21

bblackwood wrote on Mon, 17 September 2007 21:43 Andrew Hamilton wrote on Mon, 17 September 2007 20:12 From Bob Katz' _Mastering_Audio_: "In an analog signal chain, raising the music signal level as high as practical as early as possible (within the limits imposed by headroom and clipping point of A/D converters) will improve the signal to noise ratio of the entire chain. Then, later in the mastering, we will reduce the signal level digitally in the digital chain that follows." Hmm.  Good ideas all over the place. I guess some people think measurements are more important than what they hear... I guess some people look at a quotation out of context and think that they have read an entire book.

Touche!

[Masterer]

dcollins wrote on Sun, 16 September 2007 22:09

Actually VU meters are Very Useful, it's peak meters that are trouble.

I haven't had a peak to meter in about a decade. They still got those?