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[dave-G]

Following up on an offline conversation I was having with Brad, I'm curious to see what people have chosen as their in-house reference level for 0VU/+4dBu/1.23v from dBFS

I've been using -20dBFS out of old habit, but in what seems like an idea I should have thought of years ago, I'm thinking I might recal to -14dBFS as it should better suit the onslaught of way-hot mixes, running the analog chain a bit lower without having to constantly trim things digitally in the playback DAW.

What level are you using?

-dave

[present]

Yes, -14 here as well. -20 leaves me with too little room

regards
rogier

[jdg]

-12dBFS.  everyone comes to me wanting hot and heavy.

[jfrigo]

-20 is a must for post, but for mastering, the needles will just be slammed against the top at modern levels. If you're using dorrough or logitek, no problem since it can read +20, and then you have both technical accuracy and useful range. However, if you are using a traditional VU that will only read up to +3 VU, -9 dB FS (or even -8 these days) is necessary to keep the needles from being buried the whole time. Put on a modern CD for reference and the meters suddenly tell you nothing.

[Greg Reierson]

For most things rock -8dBFS = 0VU here. Jazz and classical often runs around -12.

YMMV (your meters may vary).


Greg Reierson
Rare Form Mastering

[dave-G]

jfrigo wrote on Fri, 14 September 2007 13:07

-20 is a must for post, but for mastering, the needles will just be slammed against the top at modern levels. If you're using dorrough or logitek, no problem since it can read +20, and then you have both technical accuracy and useful range. However, if you are using a traditional VU that will only read up to +3 VU, -9 dB FS (or even -8 these days) is necessary to keep the needles from being buried the whole time. Put on a modern CD for reference and the meters suddenly tell you nothing.

Yeah. I'm not asking so much as a concern about the metering, as my particular VU meters can be attenuated in 3dB steps up to -15dB for all the meter-watching I could possibly tolerate.

I'm more looking towards doing it to lower relative levels via the DAC output level to my analog chain rather than trimming digitally in the DAW. Seems time, since mixes keep coming in hotter to start with. -8 has been suggested, but -14 or -12 seems like a good "split the difference" move in that regard, coming from -18 (I know I said -20 before -- tired).

-dave

[Bob Boyd]

-8dBFS = 0VU here.

[Mark Wilder]

0VU = -14dbfs

I think the Classical engineers at Sony ran it at -18dbfs

Post, -20dbfs

[bblackwood]

0VU = -8dBFS here.

[bigaudioblowhard]

0 VU = -14dBFS

bab

[Ed Littman]

Quote:

you're using dorrough or logitek, no problem since it can read +20, and then you have both technical accuracy and useful range.

Since getting Dorrough meters a bunch of years back that read up to +20
0vu= -20dbfs for me

before that it was probably -14db

Ed

[bblackwood]

Ed Littman wrote on Fri, 14 September 2007 22:41

Quote: you're using dorrough or logitek, no problem since it can read +20, and then you have both technical accuracy and useful range. Since getting Dorrough meters a bunch of years back that read up to +20 0vu= -20dbfs for me

Do you trim the signal before your analog chain or run it through the analog gear that hot?

[Jerry Tubb]

dave-G wrote on Fri, 14 September 2007 09:21

I'm curious to see what people have chosen as their in-house reference level for 0VU/+4dBu/1.23v from dBFS

0VU = -14dBFS here.

I get a really broad range of mix levels, from really hot to really low, but most of them in the middle, just barely touching 0dBFS on the hottest peaks. So I go for the "middle ground" of -14dB = 0VU DAC level, to allow for that variance.

I suppose you could leave it at -18dB and add an analog attenuator, like the Gold Point to lower hot mix levels to taste, rather than do it digitally in the DAW, or by changing your DAC output.

Curious why some guys go for -8dBFS, you gettin' much headroom on mixes you receive?

What level do you set your post analog loop ADC, same as your DAC?

Anyone care to describe their level calibration procedure?

I suppose every piece of gear in the analog path has an optimal operating range, somewhere between too much distortion and too much noise floor. Some of us find it according to specs, some of us find it intuitively, and most importantly by listening.

Perhaps an ME's "trade secrets" may be found in this area.

IMHO getting hot CD levels, that retain some decent audio quality, is found by careful consideration and experimentation with optimizing various levels, gain structure, using high quality gear at every stage, and of course the regular stuff; how you EQ, compress, limit, etc.

This could be a really interesting thread.

JT

[Andrew Hamilton]

My VUs are referenced to -12 dBFS.  Almost every modern Pop CD I like (Rap, Rock, R&B) "recovers" to the meters' "0."  Yes, the needles peg (almost every bar), but they don't stay buried.   By the way, Dr. Christopher Hicks (CEDAR) gave me an Excel spreadsheet so that I could derive resistor values to buffer my Sifam meters against the analog source (SV-3800 DAT).  One (set of) resistor(s) in series - another, in parallel (terminal to terminal) - make the ballistics and sensitivity pretty close to true VU.

I've never worked on modern Country.  I pretty much only like George Jones, when it comes to Country, and all I have of him is on lp or cassette.  

[bblackwood]

Jerry Tubb wrote on Sat, 15 September 2007 02:51

dave-G wrote on Fri, 14 September 2007 09:21 I'm curious to see what people have chosen as their in-house reference level for 0VU/+4dBu/1.23v from dBFS 0VU = -14dBFS here. I get a really broad range of mix levels, from really hot to really low, but most of them in the middle, just barely touching 0dBFS on the hottest peaks. So I go for the "middle ground" of -14dB = 0VU DAC level, to allow for that variance. I suppose you could leave it at -18dB and add an analog attenuator, like the Gold Point to lower hot mix levels to taste, rather than do it digitally in the DAW, or by changing your DAC output.

JT, the lower you go below 0dBFS when referencing 0VU, the HOTTER the signal hits your analog gear - those of use running @ -8dBFS = 0VU are running our analog chains 6dB lower than you are @ -14dBFS = 0VU...

Quote:

Curious why some guys go for -8dBFS, you gettin' much headroom on mixes you receive?

It varies. I just prefer running my analog gear with more headroom. A hot mix running on a system calibrated to @ -18dBFS = 0VU means I'm going to be running pretty hot through my analog chain...

Quote:

What level do you set your post analog loop ADC, same as your DAC?

Yep, unity throughout here.