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[j.hall]

Ok, new topic since i found a minute to print some audio.

i mentioned in this thread an old broadcast phase rotator that i really like for various things.  a pretty weird thing to use in our world, so i thought i'd share what it sounds like on a mono room mic.

the following files are 24bit 44.1k stereo wav files.  no EQ, no compression, no limiting.  i just put the fader at unity and printed on short section of unprocessed audio, then i did the same exact section with a symmetra peak inserted.

i did a 16 second clip so the full bandwidth files would remain small. (4 meg each)

let me know your thoughts.

No Symmetra

Symmetra

[craig boychuk]

More subtle than I thought it would be.

Sounds nice!

-craig

[j.hall]

consider that it's a totally passive box.  NO POWER.

yes it's subtle, but for no having any active circuits it's doing some very noticeable things EQ-wise that surprise me.

(note: i'm no tech, so perhaps to those more savy in this arena, a passive box sounding like this is no surprise)

[M Carter]

I dunno if I'd say it's subtle, there's a definite difference between the two.

J.  - is room mic a typical application for you to use it on ?

[j.hall]

i don't think it's all that subtle either.  if you compare the wave forms and aline them up to A/B you can really hear it work.

listening to each clip alone makes it seem a bit subtle.

yes, room mics are a typical place for them.

i'll put it on kick drum from time to time and blend it back in.  gotta carful with the phase though.

it's really cool on bass guitar as well.

they are purely a vibe piece for me.  i don't use them every song i mix.  they see action probable 30% or less.

[garret]

Interesting... indeed, not a subtle box.

Listening to em blind, I don't have a preference.. they're just different.  The affected track is definitely more affected... less studio/clinical if that means anything.

Comparing the tracks with wavegain shows the raw track is 1.89db quieter in rms power.  I suppose that's because the symmetra track has had its dynamic range limited somewhat by whatever is in that box.

After correcting for that power difference, I compared the tracks with voxengo curveeq... it's nifty for comparing tracks by tonal balance.

Here's what it came up with... this is the "eq" of the symmetra track compared to the original.

Interesting, and not subtle at all!

[J-Texas]

Interesting indeed. I'm not sure what I think (as far as practical use). It would go better with certain genres... I know that. Especially heavy stuff that needs mid boost. I especially like how the kick pops out though. It definitely gave it that "not so fresh" feeling down there. Overall it took away the "clean" sound and gave it something new.  

Pretty cool. I couldn't imagine using that a whole bunch, but awesome in the arsenal!

JT

[j.hall]

garret, i got the same result passing it through a friend's smaart live rig and doing a transfer function with pink noise.  EQ curve was almost identical to yours.

J-texas.  the cool thing about these boxes is they just add character.  using them on room mics, IMO, helps the drums do something.

when i get really clinical sounding tracks, i typically use these.

i'm all about sonic vibe.......clean is not something i think of as good.

i wish i could tell you guys what the circuit is, but it's incased in black epoxy.  all i can see is two HUGE transformers on the input and output.  no doubt they have a large portion in the sound of this box.

[garret]

j.hall wrote on Wed, 12 September 2007 21:58

garret, i got the same result passing it through a friend's smaart live rig and doing a transfer function with pink noise.  EQ curve was almost identical to yours.

Huh, now that's interesting... I would have bet a whole dollar that the "eq curve" would depend on the program material.   I'm amazed then that this box was every put on the market for its intended purpose.  Those are not little peaks!  

The circuit is encased in black epoxy.  I love that.

Hmm.. I think I found the patent for that box:
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/4295106.html

p.s. voxengo plugins are coming for mac os soon... they're in beta now, from what I hear.

[Mike Cleaver]

These boxes were developed for broadcast by Khan who later had an AM Stereo box.
We all laughed at the Symetra-peak, a box full of tar with input and output jacks.
The tar was to preserve the "secret" circuitry inside.
I always wanted to boil out the tar and find out what was inside but never got around to it before they went out of favour.
We used them for a few years until something new came along.

[Richard Robinson]

  I have not tried Symmetra-Peak in a long time, but looking at the Frequency Response curves, I'd suspect the unit wasn't terminated properly. To terminate, just put a 600 ohm resistor across the output. That will drop the level a bit, but just make up for that later in the chain. It will probably smooth out the FR.
 Around 2000 or so, Leonard Kahn started making these again without the rack case. He sent me one to try out and it was just the potted part with some wires coming out. I dont know how many there are.