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[ram75]

hi
i'm on my way to get (finally some say!) rid of my MACKIE CR16
want to upgrade a bit to a 24, don't want a digital mixing board
more into vintage analogic ones
so my budget is around 2000 euros
for this range of price i have:

-the Soundcraft 1600 ( i saw the 600 at 500 euros as well)
-D&R dayner
-Mitec Joker VariDesk
-SoundTracs Topaz 32-8-6 or solo
-Tascam M-3500 ...

i'm working on cubase through a motu 896HD, i have no pre amps or compressor yet ( getting a UA 1176 someday..)

i do mostly rock/electro/folk music (think beck)on one hand
and commercials on the other,well.. more mainstream, haha

i need all your advices, from what i've read i kinda like the soundcraft but who knows?

thanx in advance

ram

[James Perrett]

With desks of this age you really need to go and check out the individual desk. Unless you are buying from a dealer with a warranty, most will have the odd problem here and there so you need to think about how much maintenance you want to do. For ease of maintenance I would look for a fully modular desk.

Like you, I have a soft spot for the old Soundcrafts as they were the first serious desks that I used but you may find that they are noisier than more modern consoles.

Cheers

James.

[ram75]

hey
thanx
by the way i'm from france, excuse my english
it can't be noiser than the mackie?
the soundcraft 600 is still available at 500 euros
the guy said it needed a cleaning, but was fully fonctional
i heard there was a great guy in paris for cleaning old desks

after reading the post all over i may pass on the D&R
dunno about the soundtracs,
i've read about neotek and soundworkshop but they are are invisible around here
i have a question: wich one you recommend in the soundcraft, 500,600,1600,2400,6000?

thanx

[MI]

ram75 wrote on Tue, 04 September 2007 09:59

it can't be noiser than the mackie?

You'd be surprised! The Mackie, although a bit sterile and
anemic, are quiet mixers.

Quote:

the soundcraft 600 is still available at 500 euros the guy said it needed a cleaning, but was fully fonctional i heard there was a great guy in paris for cleaning old desks

And you might wind up sinking another 1500 EU to get it working
in top shape.

The 600 was entry level compared to the other models.
There was also a "Live" version of the console which had no
patchbay and a slightly different monitoring in the master
section IIRC.

Find out it's condition, one person may say "cleaning" and it
actually may mean "re-capping and re-chipping" - new capacitors
and IC chips for every channel. Parts alone can cost up to
1000 USD. Keep in mind labour too...takes about 1-2 hours per
channel of work.

My wife's cousin wanted his Soundcraft Spirit live
mixer "cleaned"...I listen to it only to realize that some caps
are shorting out, a few IC's dead...

Do your homework first...check out the console really well.
Be prepared to interface you equipment with the console.
Those boards use ELCO connectors if I recall. Or at least make
sure you can play music and test a mic through every channel.

Quote:

after reading the post all over i may pass on the D&R dunno about the soundtracs, i've read about neotek and soundworkshop but they are are invisible around here i have a question: wich one you recommend in the soundcraft, 500,600,1600,2400,6000? thanx

I'm also not familiar with D&R other than a good reputation.
They're maintained a strong presence in Broadcast and Cimena mixing consoles in EU. Look into it a little more before you
write them off.

If you wanted a Soundcraft, a 1600, 1624 or a 2400 is more flexible (busses, routing etc.) The 1600 is oldest - 1979,
the 2400 is newest - 1989. Same sound from both. I've worked on a 1624, good sound, (and no need to push it too hard, don't try to "saturate" the mix bus running with the meters pegged at +3).

The Soundcraft 6000 would be real nice and the youngest of the
series you mentioned.

Also look into the TS-24. (even newer than the 6000)
You may also be able to find pretty cheap.

Mario

[ram75]

wow thanx for all this advices
i'll pass on the 600,
wait for at least a 1600 to come by
the TS 24 might be too big for me, i'll have so space left, haha

another question
why is there so many versions of the desk like the 1600?
what's the diferences between the producer series and the main one?

merci

[MI]

The difference between models is;

1600 - (1979) 16 bus and 16 tape return on the right side
1624 - (~1984) 24 bus, 16 tape return on the right, 8 aux return
2400 - (1989) 24 bus, 24 tape return, 8 aux return.

The manuals are available for download on Soundcraft's site.

I nearly bought the 1624 years back. They've come down in price since then...

Just a thought...(and please disregard if irrelevant)

We tend to get caught up in certain pieces of gear, thinking our
recordings will sound better using a certain pieces.
Sometimes after spending thousands of dollars, you realize you
didn't really need that gear. It was but an obsession.

Or worse yet, the gear you bought is no longer flavour of the month...

Can your money be better spent somewhere else?

The console is a nice "Wow" factor for visitors, but it can be
like an anchor without a chain...(the chain being everything
else in a studio)

The next step would probably be a total 24 channels of A/D D/A.

Next, good monitors, upgrade the DAW, then...etc, etc...etc...

Just take your time. Don't get caught up in a pipe dream.

It would be a shame to have a big console only to get requests
for API pre-amps...or NEVE EQ plug-ins...

In the end, you may feel like a big console is the way to go,
and if so, I'm sure you'll choose what's right for you.

Let us know how you do.

A bientot!

Mario

[ram75]

not irrelevant at all
i got what u said, everybody's obsessed!!
for exemple MCI is super hype around here now, everybody wants one, it's crazy, i'll not fall for that


i just want to improve my (home) studio
i started few years ago in my bedroom, after i got a rehearsal space, wich is not that great for clients ( i work in the commercial world for living)
so now i'm looking for a better space with better gear
and i don't want to fall for the last 5000 euros super hype desk
it's just a step up, i want something who's not gonna ruined me, a desk i can keep for quite a time, that i can improved
and then after the big fashionable one, haha

but what i know, so far, is "it's not the desk who makes the song"
if it sucks, it will always suck, no matter if it's a neve or a mackie

good day

[Jim Williams]

I've reworked every one of those desks. Avoid consoles you can't get parts for. This means the real old stuff. Early Soundcrafts like 1600, 1624, 2400, TS-24 all use Preh pots, a company that's been out of biz for around 12 years now. Check with Soundcraft first as they have a pretty good reserve of these.

Best bet is the D+R or the 6000. Both have balanced bussing and wonderful crosstalk specs like -90 db at 10k hz. I like the 6k as it's small and the split design offers more inputs in a smaller space. Newer consoles like the Toft, which I will have in for some brutal Audio Precision tests do not have this stereo crosstalk spec. Stay tuned as I will post the results here and on other sites so prospective buyers will have some real world info (not subjective opinions) on this design that's all talk and no info. Yea, it may piss some folks off like Malcolm and John, but that's what happens when you withhold important information from a prospective buyer, a guy like me comes along and fills in the gaps.

Yes, these 6k's can be re-chipped and re-capped with great results but circuit changes are required for stability. Customers typically pay between $1000 and $3000 for these. Good deal considering some poor sap paid $35k or more for it new.

10 cents on the dollar, what a deal! Buy new and half the money is spent on the profits and advertising.

[marcel]

Jim Williams wrote on Thu, 11 October 2007 08:01

Newer consoles like the Toft, which I will have in for some brutal Audio Precision tests do not have this stereo crosstalk spec. Stay tuned as I will post the results here and on other sites so prospective buyers will have some real world info (not subjective opinions) on this design that's all talk and no info. Yea, it may piss some folks off like Malcolm and John, but that's what happens when you withhold important information from a prospective buyer, a guy like me comes along and fills in the gaps.

Hmmm...  I was sorta expecting something like this to come along.  Considering those consoles were so anticipated...   I've seen a number on Ebay and Craigslist already, which does not bode well.

Best, Marcel