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Author Topic: great show on History Channel about 9/11 conspiracies  (Read 8312 times)

CHANCE

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Re: great show on History Channel about 9/11 conspiracies
« Reply #15 on: August 27, 2007, 09:05:19 AM »

I too watched it on The History channel. It was food for thought, but if it were proved to be a conspiracy, there is more to be lost than gained. Personally, I don't think it was after viewing that program
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Chance Pataki
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maxdimario

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Re: great show on History Channel about 9/11 conspiracies
« Reply #16 on: August 27, 2007, 09:53:29 AM »

Chance, I wouldn't consider it conspiracy.. this way it's hard to swallow.

is it really a conspiracy to try and make the industry richer? after all our well being today is the direct result of industrial growth, and industrial growth has grown hand in hand with the benefits of war..

heck even V72 preamps utilized military expertise.

it's not so much a conspiracy as much as perhaps a huge white lie..

if you look objectively at mankind's history you see that there have been wars going on since man began to write down history.

but getting back on topic, I say that if WTC were to fall down there are plenty of buildings in-between the towers and WTC7 which should have fallen as well.

what do you think Chance?

and if the building were to fall because of structural damage on the perimiter it would not have fallen vertically at that speed.

just to remind you, the fires which are supposed to have been hot enough to weaken the various steel beams never reached the temperature which causes steel to deform, and the fact that those buildings are built as steel cages causes a 'heat-sink' effect which disperses the heat.

if you look on youtube there are plenty of examples of film shot on location which show the tell-tale diagonal cuts ROUTINELY used in controlled demolition to cut steel beams. These are caused by special explosives which are fastened to the beams. when the explosive is triggered it severs the beam. the angle is there so that when the beam is severed the top part of the beam slides to one side.. same principle used by lumberjacks to get the tree to fall to one side..

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bblackwood

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Re: great show on History Channel about 9/11 conspiracies
« Reply #17 on: August 27, 2007, 10:51:08 AM »

maxdimario wrote on Sun, 26 August 2007 12:25

Jon shut up


That's a very compelling argument, Max. Thank you for sharing more of the intelligence and wit we've come to expect from you.
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Brad Blackwood
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rollmottle

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Re: great show on History Channel about 9/11 conspiracies
« Reply #18 on: August 27, 2007, 10:54:00 AM »

maxdimario wrote on Mon, 27 August 2007 06:53

Chance, I wouldn't consider it conspiracy.. this way it's hard to swallow.

is it really a conspiracy to try and make the industry richer? after all our well being today is the direct result of industrial growth, and industrial growth has grown hand in hand with the benefits of war..

heck even V72 preamps utilized military expertise.

it's not so much a conspiracy as much as perhaps a huge white lie..

if you look objectively at mankind's history you see that there have been wars going on since man began to write down history.

but getting back on topic, I say that if WTC were to fall down there are plenty of buildings in-between the towers and WTC7 which should have fallen as well.

what do you think Chance?

and if the building were to fall because of structural damage on the perimiter it would not have fallen vertically at that speed.

just to remind you, the fires which are supposed to have been hot enough to weaken the various steel beams never reached the temperature which causes steel to deform, and the fact that those buildings are built as steel cages causes a 'heat-sink' effect which disperses the heat.

if you look on youtube there are plenty of examples of film shot on location which show the tell-tale diagonal cuts ROUTINELY used in controlled demolition to cut steel beams. These are caused by special explosives which are fastened to the beams. when the explosive is triggered it severs the beam. the angle is there so that when the beam is severed the top part of the beam slides to one side.. same principle used by lumberjacks to get the tree to fall to one side..




http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/introduction
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ssltech

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Re: great show on History Channel about 9/11 conspiracies
« Reply #19 on: August 27, 2007, 11:22:30 AM »

maxdimario wrote on Sun, 26 August 2007 13:25

Jon shut up


Jon, please go on.

No , really.

Keith
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MDM (maxdimario) wrote on Fri, 16 November 2007 21:36

I have the feeling that I have more experience in my little finger than you do in your whole body about audio electronics..

Jon Hodgson

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Re: great show on History Channel about 9/11 conspiracies
« Reply #20 on: August 27, 2007, 12:34:39 PM »

maxdimario wrote on Mon, 27 August 2007 14:53

Chance, I wouldn't consider it conspiracy.. this way it's hard to swallow.

is it really a conspiracy to try and make the industry richer? after all our well being today is the direct result of industrial growth, and industrial growth has grown hand in hand with the benefits of war..

heck even V72 preamps utilized military expertise.

it's not so much a conspiracy as much as perhaps a huge white lie..


No, what you believe in is a conspiracy, you see it involves a number of people conspiring together.

We'll add English comprehension to your list of skills shall we?


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mgod

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Re: great show on History Channel about 9/11 conspiracies
« Reply #21 on: August 27, 2007, 12:39:44 PM »

Jon Hodgson wrote on Sun, 26 August 2007 03:34

You accuse people of gullibility, but you are the one who shows it, you accept poor science, weak conjecture and outright lies from the conspiracy theorists simply because they say what you want to believe, that every bad thing that happens in this world is down to some small group of powerful evil people. You think of yourself as some free thinker but in reality you're not far removed from the masses in 1930s Germany who readily swallowed the crap fed to them by the Nazis because it let them blame the jews, and they wanted someone to blame.

Blame the jews, blame the Iraqis, whatever...

Oh wait, this was about free thinking, wasn't it?

Ouch - petards must hurt.

Recommended:
http://www.sonyclassics.com/whywefight/

DS
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Jon Hodgson

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Re: great show on History Channel about 9/11 conspiracies
« Reply #22 on: August 27, 2007, 12:51:40 PM »

maxdimario wrote on Mon, 27 August 2007 14:53

if you look on youtube there are plenty of examples of film shot on location which show the tell-tale diagonal cuts ROUTINELY used in controlled demolition to cut steel beams. These are caused by special explosives which are fastened to the beams. when the explosive is triggered it severs the beam. the angle is there so that when the beam is severed the top part of the beam slides to one side.. same principle used by lumberjacks to get the tree to fall to one side..


That "film" is actually a still image, and if you look at the original set of images that it comes from, there is also another shot of a cleanup worker cutting a beam at the same angle - makes sense, as you point out it means he can be sure it will fall away from him - producing exactly the same kind of slag that you see on the cut in the picture that keeps getting reshown.

Added to which you only have to look at the cut to see that it's not the result of explosives, it's fairly clean and sharp, at 90 degrees to the face of the beam on all four sides, no bending or distortion of the metal next to the cut at all, well all except one small part where it appears to have broken off, as you might expect if someone was cutting a beam with a thermic lance, before he can quite finish the cut all the way round, the stress on the bit that's left proves to much for it and it break off... yet you believe that was done with an explosive charge?
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Jon Hodgson

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Re: great show on History Channel about 9/11 conspiracies
« Reply #23 on: August 27, 2007, 01:03:36 PM »

Jay Kadis wrote on Sun, 26 August 2007 19:42

The conspiracy that matters now is the one hatched AFTER the attacks that got us embroiled in Iraq under false pretenses.  That IS a conspiracy.


Now that I do agree with.
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J.J. Blair

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Re: great show on History Channel about 9/11 conspiracies
« Reply #24 on: August 27, 2007, 02:59:03 PM »

The show talks about how the theorists eventually split into two camps: The "let it happen" conspiracy and the "make it happen" conspiracy.  

I'm not ruling out that the administration was intentionally asleep at the wheel and let 9/11 happen, even though they didn't know exactly what the attack was going to entail.  I vividly remember Rumsfeld's first press conference after the attack, where he mentioned that Iraq was the likely culprit.  These guys wanted to attack Iraq since before they were even in office, and I can actually see a few of them thinking that a terrorist attack might help them achieve that end.  The fact that nobody could get a meeting with Bush about this matter in the build up reminds me of a scenario at a label when we kept asking why stations were not being serviced with a certain band's single, only to find out after we got them off the label that the president of the label told the promo guy to "bury it," because of his own personal agenda.

However, if you think about the logistics necessary for a "make it happen" conspiracy, you need to think about a few things:
a) This is the most inept administration in decades.  Do you honestly think they are as retarded as they are in every other manner, yet in this one monumental task, they suddenly become geniuses?
b) This administration has also been the worst at keeping secrets.  At some point, somebody has leaked something about nearly everything.  Why would this be any different?
c) Don't you think that John O'Neill, former chief anti-terrorism guy for the FBI, in charge of security for the WTC, who also died trying to get people out of the building, would have noticed people drilling into the structure and rigging it with thousands of pounds of charges and miles worth of detonation cord?  In fact, he was aware of the terror warnings.  Don't you think he would have been looking for that sort of thing?!?!?!
d) Wouldn't they have found ANY of the miles of cord required to do what these conspiracies allege? Not to mention that there is zero physical evidence supporting any of the twenty plus conspiracies.  You think they can recover somebody's hand and identify them by that, but they can't find evidence of demolition materials?

Oh wait ... it's a conspiracy.  Even the people looking for that evidence are in on it.  

If you believe this shit, you are either a fucking moron or in need of psychological help.
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rollmottle

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Re: great show on History Channel about 9/11 conspiracies
« Reply #25 on: August 27, 2007, 03:20:45 PM »

J.J. Blair wrote on Mon, 27 August 2007 11:59


If you believe this shit, you are either a fucking moron...


BINGO!
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John Ivan

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Re: great show on History Channel about 9/11 conspiracies
« Reply #26 on: August 27, 2007, 07:19:19 PM »

I find it to be completely amazing that some folks still believe, in the face of nearly every engineer who has looked closely at the data returning with, "yes, not only is it possible that what we saw is what we saw, but very very likely. It makes total sense that these buildings fell down the way we say they did. We are not part of a conspiracy".. that a huge number of people conspired to either DO this, or ignored that it was going to happen..

You will believe anything. Amazing.. Dumb ass suckers. Babies. Children. It's such a fucking waste of energy. You're as bad as the evangelical right wing believing some of the nonsense that they believe.


You believe that ONLY YOU are good enough to run everything. If YOU were in charge, there would be no wrong doing. But, everyone else, all people in the government are BAD BAD people. You hold the great knowledge. Only YOU understand the secret change in Temp at which steel could weaken. Only on 9-11 could this temp apply, you can't tell us why or you would have to kill us. Buildings only fall straight down if you use explosives. No other set of circumstances could bring such a result.Only you, of course , know this.

In Washington, where a 757 crashed, you hold up photos of a very small Fan assembly from a jet engine and claim that it could NOT have come from a 757. People explain that it's part of the APU but you again say that ONLY YOU have special knowledge about the shrinking blade and you are SURE that many people conspired to some how place the blade at the site... ..

and so on.. What a complete pile of shit..Thanks for nothin''

Ivan.....................
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Jay Kadis

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Re: great show on History Channel about 9/11 conspiracies
« Reply #27 on: August 27, 2007, 09:11:21 PM »

To be fair there's a reason why many people distrust what the government and media say.   This is far from the first American tragedy that has played out without a completely satisfying explanation.  The Kennedy assassination that many of us watched on TV over and over still defies the Warren Report conclusions about all who were involved.

Any nefarious connections that might occur between the events we see presented by the media are not immune to manipulation, especially now that the media are in the hands of relatively few owners and technology is so powerful.  A little mistrust goes a long way.  In this case too far, but that doesn't mean we should not question at all.

John Ivan

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Re: great show on History Channel about 9/11 conspiracies
« Reply #28 on: August 27, 2007, 09:15:59 PM »

Jay Kadis wrote on Mon, 27 August 2007 21:11

To be fair there's a reason why many people distrust what the government and media say.   This is far from the first American tragedy that has played out without a completely satisfying explanation.  The Kennedy assassination that many of us watched on TV over and over still defies the Warren Report conclusions about all who were involved.

Any nefarious connections that might occur between the events we see presented by the media are not immune to manipulation, especially now that the media are in the hands of relatively few owners and technology is so powerful.  A little mistrust goes a long way.  In this case too far, but that doesn't mean we should not question at all.



Well said. I agree with all you have written above. There ARE fine explanations for how the Towers fell and the debris left at the Pentagon. What drives me nuts is the constant refusal to observe and except what is relatively obvious.Thats all.

Ivan.....................
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"Transformation is no easy trick: It's what art promises and usually doesn't deliver." Garrison Keillor

 

J.J. Blair

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Re: great show on History Channel about 9/11 conspiracies
« Reply #29 on: August 27, 2007, 10:34:51 PM »

Speaking of Kennedy, there was an amazing show on Discovery or something where using ballistic dummies with actual human bone in them, they recreated the magic bullet shot.  Same gun, height, distance, everything.  It did exactly what the Warren report says it did!  Went through the first dummy through the bone, came out at an angle, keyholed into the next dummy, and just plopped out of the second dummy and layed there, because it lost all the velocity.  Crazy shit!  I never would have believed it, and the testers were in a state of shock.

They didn't try to disprove anything else or get involved in the controversy.  They just wanted to see if the magic bullet claim was disprovable, using actual science!  
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studio info

They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.

"The Internet enables pompous blowhards to interact with other pompous blowhards in a big circle jerk of pomposity." - Bill Maher

"The negative aspects of this business, not only will continue to prevail, but will continue to accelerate in madness. Conditions aren't going to get better, because the economics of rock and roll are getting closer and closer to the economics of Big Business America." - Bill Graham
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