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Author Topic: IMP14 discussion  (Read 15088 times)

chrisj

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Re: IMP14 discussion
« Reply #90 on: August 31, 2007, 04:02:17 am »

Oh, I could be completely wrong, my judgement isn't really great these days thanks to the stressed out thing I mentioned. That's why I said it was too bitchy of a crit really- all I can say about that is that I'm sorry, and that I wanted to do a crit rather than fail to do one. I did feel the vocals weren't aggressive, maybe just compared with some of the other entries like southboundloco's and macbraddy's. Note that in some of the cases where the vocal is aggressive, it sounds bad, but I still like it better... which shows you how screwed up I am in the head THIS time around Wink

M Carter

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Re: IMP14 discussion
« Reply #91 on: August 31, 2007, 09:06:51 am »

chrisj -

no need to apologize - you're more than entitled to your opinion.  I feel (sonically speaking and otherwise) that there's a very fine line between aggressive and harsh, and harsh is NEVER a good descriptive term for the way something looks or sounds.  A lot of the heavily filtered vocal mixes made the songs sound generally a bit disjointed and made the focus of the song the music rather than the vocal, which is just not how this style of "pop punk" works.  

I'm def interested in knowing where people were coming from one their mixes. anyone?
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slash5969

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Re: IMP14 discussion
« Reply #92 on: August 31, 2007, 10:39:34 am »

This is perhaps THE coolest thing I've run across on the internet since I started learning to mix. I am pretty green, and I'm seriously impressed with the quality and ingenuity that I hear in these submissions.

Give yourselves a collective pat-on-the-back, guys. You rock!

I missed the deadline to submit, but I did mix the song. It's a fantastic way to learn, and since I didn't have any emotional connection to any of the tracks, I was able to approach this entirely from a true mixing POV - unlike working on my own stuff or even other people's stuff that I tracked.

I am looking forward to the next round with great anticipation!

Ciao,

David
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Adam Miller

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Re: IMP14 discussion
« Reply #93 on: August 31, 2007, 10:44:53 am »

Hello everyone....

these are my first impressions of the mixes, in the order wot they turned up on my hard drive:

Ryst- Where are the drums? Too far back in the mix for this kind of music I think. Guitars sound both quite dull and harsh at the same time- i think you need to be a bit more selective with your eq. I do like the vocal treatments a lot though- they sound great throughout.

ATOR- Overall tonality quite harsh and thin- sounds like a +8 shelf on the overheads at 12k- distracts from the rest of the mix, which i actually think is pretty good. Good vocal blend, cool drums, if a bit thin. I like the little drum breaks. Also like what you've done with the piano.

Maxim- balance of vocals to everything else is completely out of whack. Vocals are relatively bright and present, but everything else sounds like it's coming through a duvet. The balance gets even worse with the piano in the final chorus, sorry...

Osumosan- Nice energy, but far too overcooked, i think. Monster compression and pumping hihats- It just sounds distracting to me. The whole thing has the kind of ambience that suggests playing in an empty warehouse or highschool gym- it all needs to be dialled back.

SingSing- Drums sound nice and tight- i like- although that hihat again... The whole thing doesn't sound bad, all the balances are there, but the combination of compression and relentless hi-end make this quite fatiguing to listen to. The piano ending is perfect though, nice one.

Icombs- Sounds good straight off the bat. Vocals sound a bit spitty in relation to the rest of the elements, but this could be easily corrected. Kick is a little too loud. Guitars are maybe a little 'scratchy' sounding, but nothing major. Vox reverb in the breakdown is maybe a little much. Overall though, a very decent mix.

Briefcasemanx- Where are the drums? Need more aggressive processing and probably samples to help them kick through the rest of the elements. The rest actually sounds ok (though vox could do with a bit more ambience) but the drums upset the rest of the mix balance.

ChrisJ- When that bloody lead guitar isn't in during the verses, the balance actually sounds ok, but your individual elements sound as though you've crappified them on purpose. I'm not sure what more i can say... your vocal mixes are generally good... the overall thing just sounds like it's been ravaged by mp3 compression, which I suspect is more to do with mix decisions than anything else.

Darkhorseporter- MONSTER hi-end – I'd be inclined to check your monitoring. It's hard to get past this to the rest of the mix, which I suspect is not bad at all... drums need a bit more punch.

Hlabb- Best mix by a country mile. Vocal delay in the verses is maybe a little too much. I would say it also lacks a little midrange meat, but nothing that couldn't be corrected easily in the mastering stage. Nice edit in the little ska section. The only thing that would give me cause for concern is the brightness of the hihats vs. the vocals, but that is really just a nitpick. Drums great, guitars great, bass sits well- it sounds like a record.

McSnare- The more i listen to this one, the more i like it. I would take issue with the kick sound though- it sounds like it has quite a lot of midrange 'knock'... I would be inclined to think it sounds big by sheer virtue of its volume- I think it's actually slightly lacking in low-end weight. My preference would be a less bombastic snare verb too, but that's only my preference. A bit ott on the toms maybe? Overall though, a really engaging mix, esp the vocals.

Soulfire- Guitars sound off- like a  really hi Q boost somewhere in the mids. It puts the guitars in different space from the drums, and makes the mix quite fatiguing to listen to. With this pulled back a bit, the mix could be pretty decent.

Boedoconstrictor- Hihats sizzling through again- too much upper treble boost? Rest of the mix is pretty cool. Drums sound ok, slightly uncontrolled. Vocals are decent. The whole thing sounds like it needs a couple more hours of refinement. Subtle use of the piano is cool.

Fantomas- The whole mix is not bad, but it just has the feel of a demo. Too much drum verb, unengaging guitars. No massive problems, i think you just need to keep working on it and developing your mixing... I hope that doesn't sound too patronising!

Jhall- Cool basic balance... i think everything has been said already, too much vocal delay etc etc...  Could be a really cool mix.

Blloyd- Really thin... Probably a monitoring issue, I'd guess. Drums sound unexciting, I think the sounds need more work. It's hard to get past the lack of lowend though.    

Mcarter- that snare drum REALLY stands out- it's quite distracting. Nice edit in the ska break. I'm undecided about the chorus edits... they do speed things along. Bit too much vox verb in the breakdown. Apart from the snare, the balance is pretty good, I just think the sounds need a bit more attitude.    

DevinK- Not bad... Kick drum sounds a bit lumpy and uncontrolled. Ambience on the chorus vocals makes them sound a little detached from the rest of the music. That bass sounds a little twangy in the breakdown. Overall though, a decent balance.

Macbraddy- Top end sounds a bit harsh, and it's lacking in midrange articulation. I'm not sold on the vocals either, they sit too far back and the pitch spread effect is a little overdone- they don't 'speak' to me as directly as they should. Nevertheless, the mix is pretty good, would have been nice to get a snare that matched the kick sound. Some really great little breaks and sounds that lead the ear through the mix.  

Jason Thompson- Overall tonality is a bit middy and constricted. Kick and bass are a bit honky and lacking in balls for my liking. Balance of elements is good, and the mix is otherwise well constructed, just not 'radio-ready' sounding.


Thanks to everyone that reviewed my mix, all comments are very welcome.

RE the edits in the second verse where I chopped the little ska section out... On first listen through the raw multitracks, that was the section that screamed out to me as sounding amateurish; just poorly conceived and played in comparison with the rest of the track. Keeping the momentum up seemed more important to me than the making perfect sense of the lyrics, so that part got the snip... Not sure whether that was a mistake or not- always hard to judge something like that when you've heard a track so much.

Big thanks to iCombs and J.

Cheers,

Adam
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M Carter

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Re: IMP14 discussion
« Reply #94 on: August 31, 2007, 11:52:32 am »

Adam -

It's pretty amazing some of the shit we can't notice until someone else tells us.  I'm not sure if the problem is the snare coming down, or everything else coming.  What I've noticed on my little altec lansings at work is that at the same volume, my snare is about as loud as yours... but nothing else is at that volume.  

Thanks for the critique.

Matt
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Baddo

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Re: IMP14 discussion
« Reply #95 on: August 31, 2007, 12:01:03 pm »

Adam Miller wrote on Fri, 31 August 2007 09:44

Hello everyone....

these are my first impressions of the mixes, in the order wot they turned up on my hard drive:...


No me? Where's me?

Didn't my mix turn up on your HD?

buuuu   Crying or Very Sad
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-Baddo

J-Texas

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Re: IMP14 discussion
« Reply #96 on: August 31, 2007, 12:36:55 pm »

ATOR wrote on Wed, 29 August 2007 11:03

Jason Thompson
Very middy sounding band. The vocals are great. The drumspace is too small compared to how wide the guitars are: the guitars are 50ft apart but the drums are in a 12ft room. Balance is good.



chrisj wrote on Fri, 31 August 2007 01:18

IMP_14_Jason_Thompson: Snarly guitars. I like how they're voiced, and the track swings. Drums have a neat thump and pop. All in all this is very likeable Smile


Adam Miller wrote on Fri, 31 August 2007 09:44

Jason Thompson- Overall tonality is a bit middy and constricted. Kick and bass are a bit honky and lacking in balls for my liking. Balance of elements is good, and the mix is otherwise well constructed, just not 'radio-ready' sounding.


Okay... consensus is: My drums need to sound like mcsnare (asshole  Very Happy ) My mix was well balanced despite the aggressive mids (which were intentional). I agree with all of that. Thanks guys for the crit.

CHRISj - My mix must be perfect for you because I am convinced, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that you have some mid frequency hearing loss, a screw loose, and a possible coke (and/or) speed addiction.  Laughing   Laughing  Laughing  Laughing
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Jason Thompson
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Adam Miller

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Re: IMP14 discussion
« Reply #97 on: August 31, 2007, 01:05:39 pm »

Sorry Baddo!

For some reason your mix went awol. Here are my thoughts, although I'm listening on headphones rather than my proper monitors. (they're good headphones tho...)

My first impression is that you might have some kind of monitoring issue- too much lowend? Your mix sounds a bit thin in the bass and lower mids, but it is very consistent- everything sounds very well balanced and is articulated well. It could probably be corrected relatively easily in the mastering. Love the little flange thing in the drum break. Vocals are maybe a little reticent in comparison with the rest of the track (probably like my mix...). I think you might have gone a little overboard on the compression- the top end sounds a bit squashed and relentless- however, it's no big deal, nowhere near as drastic as some of the other entries. Overall, a good mix though, very engaging.

Cheers

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chrisj

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Re: IMP14 discussion
« Reply #98 on: August 31, 2007, 02:05:48 pm »

J-Texas wrote on Fri, 31 August 2007 12:36

chrisj wrote on Fri, 31 August 2007 01:18

IMP_14_Jason_Thompson: Snarly guitars. I like how they're voiced, and the track swings. Drums have a neat thump and pop. All in all this is very likeable Smile

CHRISj - My mix must be perfect for you because I am convinced, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that you have some mid frequency hearing loss, a screw loose, and a possible coke (and/or) speed addiction.  Laughing   Laughing  Laughing  Laughing


Maybe I have a sense of what RAWWWWKS, you're a genius, and everybody else is just wrong  Laughing  Laughing  Laughing  Laughing

Actually, I _am_ a drug addict- just a clean one. I've been clean for like fifteen years or so. Obviously it hasn't made my mixing any calmer Wink I still go for the screw-loose-and-fulla-meth sound, I just need to learn how to make it more likeable.

I don't think I have mid hearing loss so much as I just often want to go for a howling, incredibly sonorous penetrating sound. I almost NEVER want a sound to be flat or to sit there sounding balanced. I want everything to be unbalanced and crammed with energy, and some of the sounds I've always liked a lot have been really narrowly focussed in the context of the mix. It becomes a question of whether you can get away with it. For instance the non-lead guitars in my mix were doing the same obnoxious things as the lead, but with them, it doesn't annoy as much because the frequency ranges are different. With the lead, the area I picked to load energy into was a specially ouchy one, which was my mistake even if there was room there in the mix. I wanted to pull that guitar down a lot in volume and still have it cut, but the price was too high.

J-Texas

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Re: IMP14 discussion
« Reply #99 on: August 31, 2007, 02:11:32 pm »

chrisj wrote on Fri, 31 August 2007 13:05

I've been clean for like fifteen years or so.


That's AWESOME dude.
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Jason Thompson
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M Carter

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Re: IMP14 discussion
« Reply #100 on: August 31, 2007, 02:18:30 pm »

Yeah chris -

Congrats on that.

What kind of stuff are you using for a reference when it comes to what you want?  What it oft sounds like is that you have the sound in your head but have a hard time getting the big picture to happen.  

Are you talking out of control like early proto punk stuff or like 90's hardcore?  The proof with a lot of that stuff is in the pudding - if it ain't there to begin with, it's easy to over do it and chase your tail trying to put it there,
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j.hall

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Re: IMP14 discussion
« Reply #101 on: August 31, 2007, 02:47:16 pm »

chrisj wrote on Fri, 31 August 2007 01:18

 thanks J for having the balls to put up a stage of your work we normally would never hear Smile




hey, i just felt that the mod of this forum was obligated to submit something.
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Adam Miller

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Re: IMP14 discussion
« Reply #102 on: August 31, 2007, 03:36:55 pm »

M Carter wrote on Fri, 31 August 2007 16:52

Adam -

It's pretty amazing some of the shit we can't notice until someone else tells us.  


Tell me about it! In the direct aftermath of completing a mix, I usually think I'm god's gift to mixing. After about three days, the effect has usually faded to something along the lines of 'christ, what was I thinking?'. Oddly enough, the problems I hear with my own work are almost never the same as the problems everyone else hears with it. Oh well. Still, we soldier on, hopefully improving with every mix!

Legacy looks amazing BTW, not sure why I've never checked out the link before.

Cheers,

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M Carter

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Re: IMP14 discussion
« Reply #103 on: August 31, 2007, 03:52:54 pm »

Adam -

Thanks for the kind words and come check us out when you're in the states next!

Matt
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southboundloco

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Re: IMP14 discussion
« Reply #104 on: August 31, 2007, 11:00:01 pm »

Quote:

IMP14southboundlocoprint1: hey, compelling vocals! The song itself just feels generically big, perhaps because of the distortions of image I talked about with Boedo's, but for some reason the vocals are really clicking on this one. I wonder how much of that has to do with the radical hard panning? For some reason when the guy's yelling out of the side speaker, he feels so very immediate. I'd be interested to know the signal chain on the verse vocals in this mix. Part of it is surely how hot the vox are, because they're REALLY REALLY hot. If everything was as hot, the mix would suck, but instead it's a loud mix in which the vocals just blow everything else away...


i rode the vox tracks on this one all through out the song(hehe with some mouse gymnastics hehe  Very Happy )anyweyz if i could remember it right my vox chain is dynamic EQ-desser-compressor used as leveler- EQ to shape the sound-final compression to make it upfront...and this is being sent to a HARMONIZER,longplate,and delay(delays are on only during the parts where there's a lot of stuff is going on, gotta give that vox space on the loud/busy parts...
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