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Author Topic: IMP14 discussion  (Read 18834 times)

chrisj

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Re: IMP14 discussion
« Reply #105 on: August 31, 2007, 11:50:38 PM »

What's the dynamic EQ doing?

The stuff I grew up on was like Aqualung, Traffic's 'Last Exit'... lot of incredibly midrangey stuff. I had Thick As A Brick, Low Spark of High Heeled Boys etc (much wider-range) but the mixes didn't feel right to me when they were that widerange, somehow.

Very little reference to, or interest in, modern-day mixes. Mixing started to die for me around 1980 and never recovered Smile it took electronic music to show me how some of the things you could do could be pretty cool, really. Still there's a part of me that finds that SM57-in-a-bedroom sound to be the most immediate. With Steve Winwood on old traffic records, sometimes you couldn't even understand what the hell he was singing, but it had vibe for days. So much midrange...

M Carter

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Re: IMP14 discussion
« Reply #106 on: September 01, 2007, 12:30:43 AM »

chrisj -

the thing with those records is that they never reach the point of going overboard.  the only direction those records make you turn the volume is UP.  It's just a suggestion, but you may want to lay off of the midrange tweakage for a while.  It seems like you zero in on a frequency and just turn that shit up til it hurts.  You don't really have to do that - midrange is there.  The mid 90's metal trend of scooping the midrange is dead, more or less.  

Mid range is a pretty dangerous frequency - it can screw up an otherwise listener friendly mix.  Engage the listener, but don't piss them off.

Not that I know what I'm talking about, it's just an observation.
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Matt Carter
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chrisj

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Re: IMP14 discussion
« Reply #107 on: September 01, 2007, 03:42:10 AM »

Hey, I'm listening. Thank you for saying it. Smile

J-Texas

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Re: IMP14 discussion
« Reply #108 on: September 01, 2007, 09:21:46 AM »

M Carter wrote on Fri, 31 August 2007 23:30

chrisj -

the thing with those records is that they never reach the point of going overboard.  the only direction those records make you turn the volume is UP.  It's just a suggestion, but you may want to lay off of the midrange tweakage for a while.  It seems like you zero in on a frequency and just turn that shit up til it hurts.  You don't really have to do that - midrange is there.  The mid 90's metal trend of scooping the midrange is dead, more or less.  

Mid range is a pretty dangerous frequency - it can screw up an otherwise listener friendly mix.  Engage the listener, but don't piss them off.

Not that I know what I'm talking about, it's just an observation.



The man I love to argue with... Matt Carter.

What about The Who records? "Don't Get Fooled Again" is raunchy and it hurts and I want to turn it up louder and louder. That's what this IMP did for me. I'M NOT COMPARING MY SKILLS TO PETE TOWNSEND FOLKS. My mids didn't bother me though. It was cool low vol 'cuz you could here everything, but it rocked your  speakers if you turned it up. If my drums were there it would have been great for me. "No One Knows" by Queens is newer, not so robust version of that.

What I do agree with... sort of. (ChrisJ) Lay off the overboard mid tweaking. Find that amount that cuts. Instead of going with obnoxious to find that rock place... use volume and compression to get your point across. It can still jam and cut without making ears bleed.

Oh Matt Carter, you're my hero.  Very Happy I'll be here to butt heads anytime you want. Perhaps if I make it up to AES in October, I can come see your killer digs man. I would LOVE to tour that joint man.

JT
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Jason Thompson
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southboundloco

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Re: IMP14 discussion
« Reply #109 on: September 01, 2007, 10:31:13 AM »

Quote:

What's the dynamic EQ doing?
it helps me set the over-all eq that i want for the vox.and pretty much controls/maintains it from going "honky"/nasal sounding in some parts or sounding harsh in some parts i.e. choruses...
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southboundloco

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Re: IMP14 discussion
« Reply #110 on: September 01, 2007, 10:32:53 AM »

pretty much maintaining that eq curve that i want all through out
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M Carter

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Re: IMP14 discussion
« Reply #111 on: September 01, 2007, 03:00:05 PM »

Jason -

Yeah - that's what I felt about yours as well, was that it wasn't my cup of pie, but it definitely worked as a mix.  Everything pretty much had the same general tone and vibe.  

I'm digging how the more we do these things, the better everyone's feedback seems to get in terms of critical listening ability.  

By all means, if you make it to AES, hit me up!

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Matt Carter
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ATOR

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Re: IMP14 discussion
« Reply #112 on: September 01, 2007, 04:15:56 PM »

M Carter wrote on Sat, 01 September 2007 21:00

 

I'm digging how the more we do these things, the better everyone's feedback seems to get in terms of critical listening ability.  




In the end listening is the most important skill. Hearing what potential lies in the recordings and what needs to be done to get there.

That's what I like best about the IMPs, listening to 20+ versions of what can also be done with the same sources. For me it's a real ear opener, every IMP again that there are so many different sounds hidden in the same recordings.

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Soul_Fire

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Re: IMP14 discussion
« Reply #113 on: September 01, 2007, 08:43:08 PM »

Hi all,

Just wanted to say thanks for the comments so far. I agree that the guitars were way too far up in the mix, I'm going to have a listen over the weekend and see if pulling them back a bit helps pull everything else together.

I think I might have fallen into the trap of mixing with my eyes... Recently started using a spectrum analyser to help evaluate my mixing (as my room sounds so bad). I really should get my room sorted! I did keep referencing to another track but I guess I ended up way off somewhere!

Will try to get something down about everyones mixes next week, It's great to listen to what other people have done!

Thanks again!
Soul Fire.
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chrisj

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Re: IMP14 discussion
« Reply #114 on: September 02, 2007, 12:11:34 AM »

J-Texas wrote on Sat, 01 September 2007 09:21

What I do agree with... sort of. (ChrisJ) Lay off the overboard mid tweaking. Find that amount that cuts. Instead of going with obnoxious to find that rock place... use volume and compression to get your point across. It can still jam and cut without making ears bleed.


I think what I'm learning is, I like really high-Q midrange boosts and they don't bug me but they really offend some people on a positively visceral level. At the same time sometimes I can use them to get what I want out of guitars and other people dig it. I think it has a fair amount to do with the Logic channel EQ, which I thought was a nasty way to do it- compare with equally obnoxious EQ behavior on the previous IMP and misused in a lot of places (like drums and lead vox) but my ResEQ plugin doesn't get the same grating quality, it just delivers the same 'you meant to do that?' boost effect.

Maybe it's like a mastering stylee thing, in which I can get the obnoxious boost all set up in the right spot but then I have to chill it out until it's almost not there? It's tough- often it would be easier if I could rely on the performances to give the effect, and maybe that's the problem right there, I'm lying with EQ. But when I have it clicking I LIKE the result I'm getting- dug having the previous one be critted as 'ugly but it sounds like it's on fire'. I guess the next thing is to find that point where it's no longer ugly but still gives the effect...

Devin Knutson

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Re: IMP14 discussion
« Reply #115 on: September 02, 2007, 02:40:54 AM »

chrisj wrote on Thu, 30 August 2007 23:18

IMP14_DevinK_03: Wildly out of step with modern mix sounds Wink



Quite possibly the second-best compliment ever given to me.

Seriously.

(the best one is a whole 'nother thread)

Thank you.



...




I'm still so far out of town that I can actually see the Milky Way right now.  I'm on a wireless Sprint PCS card in EVDO mode, which has been spotty at best, and distinctly dial-up like...  so the few times I've tried to listen this week, the endless "buffering..." messages and time-outs have gotten the better of me.

I do intend to respond and post my own thoughts this coming week.

Thanks all!

Carry on...

    - Devin
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j.hall

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Re: IMP14 discussion
« Reply #116 on: September 03, 2007, 06:01:14 PM »

man, i haven't even had time to listen to a single mix.

working three records at the same time. (tracking drums/producing/directing overdubs)  

luckily the drummer today was solid and cut 9 songs in 4 hours.  i actually get to see my family for a bit.
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Greg Dixon

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Re: IMP14 discussion
« Reply #117 on: September 03, 2007, 06:54:22 PM »

j.hall wrote on Tue, 04 September 2007 08:01

man, i haven't even had time to listen to a single mix.

working three records at the same time. (tracking drums/producing/directing overdubs)  

luckily the drummer today was solid and cut 9 songs in 4 hours.  i actually get to see my family for a bit.



I'm only finishing up two projects and just started another..... mind you one of them is for a carols DVD..... 65 minutes of music, 55 tracks of audio..... make a great imp. Drums, bass, percussion, guitar, piano, vibraphone, synth, oboe, 2 trumpets, 2 trombones, string quartet, 5 singers, choir and pipe organ. Recorded in the Adelaide Town Hall, South Australia .... lots and lots of bleed..... and sometimes all playing at once. It's been fun. Very Happy
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Baddo

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Re: IMP14 discussion
« Reply #118 on: September 03, 2007, 07:40:27 PM »

Adam Miller wrote on Fri, 31 August 2007 12:05

...My first impression is that you might have some kind of monitoring issue- too much lowend? Your mix sounds a bit thin in the bass and lower mids,...


Yes, this seems to be the consensus for my IMP 14 mix.
I went back and review the mix and yes, the mix does sound thin in comparison. Truth is I had my sub badly calibrated, and I had moved some switches on my monitors to mess around for this mix.

I'll post my reviews now:



Jason Thompson

Great start! Guitars sound nice but kind of honky when the vocals enter.
Cymbals sound great. Love the 2nd chorus.
the only thing that sounds odd to me was the saturation on the last phrase ("why do I matter to you")
All in all great mix.


BLloyd

I like the stereo play on the clean guitars.
The mix sounds very clean, a tad brittle on the cymbals but good. Snare sounds quite natural as does the kick drum, cool.
I gotta ask Why didn't you spread the guitars? Were you going for the "band jamming in the room with me" concept? Sounds cool though.


Ryst

Guitars sound dark but good. I'd like the drums to be more upfront.
Vocals sound good.
I like the delay on the piano for the bridge, interesting. And the drums sound great here.


iCombs

woohoo fatness!
Vocals sound a little sibilant but good, drums sound punchy, I 'd like the snare a little louder though, and I'm not thrilled about the toms.
Great definition on the guitars.


Audio-Geek

Phaser coolness on the intro. This mix sounds a little boomy, but the vocals are great.

The snare sounds ...different. Cool though.


Briefcasemanx

Cool, this sounds powerful.  I'm thinking the guitars are either a little too bright or a little too high because I'm missing the punch of the drums. The snare sounds snappy which is cool. Cymbals lack tone, which is pretty common but I don't like.
Overall very in-yer-face but I'd revise the balance, other than that it's cool and modern.


ChrisJ

Shit, this sounds biased. I don't like the sound of the Solo guitar and the crashes; the solo guitar was too nasal and the crashes constantly distract me form the vocals. Rhythm guitars sound cool though. Not my type.


Darkhorseporter

Ok, this ones a little harsh for my taste, so I turned it down. Once turned down balance seems ok, guitars sound heavy and the snare is ok. Vocals sound a little thin.
What I'd like to hear louder is the kick drum. I'm not feeling it kick my stomach. That last vocal phrase sounds great.


DevinK

I like the snare sound here, vocals sound cool too, I don't like the drums ambiance though, it contrasts with the added verbs and delay added to the voices. I see you had some fun with editing didn't ya? well, sounds good, I've listened to this song like a million times already and those little edits add spice. I like the kick drum boom verb on the bridge.
EQ-wise sounds a little biased. But cool mix ideas.


HLabb

I love these guitars, drums sound again snappy and the kick sounds thick. Great.  Lead vocals sounds solid, backgrounds are a little soft for my taste. I'd have done something different to the drum sample break, but this is ok.
I like what you did for the bridge, sounds very nice, and it worked emotionally (at least for me) -Did you added a low thud at the start of the last chorus?


MacBraddy

This one sounds a little bright for my taste. I like the arrangement edits you did.
Vocals sound a little middy and the guitars sound a too pointy. I noticed some crackles in the bridge but I think these where on the source tracks weren't they?
The Backing vocals on the last chorus sound refreshing.


McSnare

Wow great snare!  The mix is a tad lo-mid heavy but that's not really a problem. While the snare is cool I think it's a little loud. Guitars and bass sound meshed and function as a whole which is good. There's lot's of space for the vocals which sometimes is difficult. I noticed something wrong with the compressor release on the piano part, a little distracting but nothing to agonize on. I really wish your kick drum sounded better (or maybe just louder).


Soul Fire

Ok, a little bright for my taste. Guitars are a little airy, and I miss a little more definition on the bass guitar. Balance seems fine but I'd like the drums to be more present. I'm missing more punch.


Ator

I like the power of this one, good guitars and the bass is great !  The snare sounds strange sometimes but sounds great most of the time. That "Part of you"  and "why do I matter" lines of the backing vox are a little loud for my taste. I dig the piano sound.


Maxim

Mmmh. Not thrilled about the delay on the guitars nor about the sound. The sampled breaks sound great and that in and out motion on the arpeggiated guitar sounds cool too. Drums are a little low for my taste.
The bridge sounds pretty interesting; I like those distorted echoes.
This is a pretty different mix, not at all like what you would expect for a rock song.


Osumosan

Wow, this one's pretty squashed, sounds cool but the squashing makes the cymbals tiresome. Snares sounds cool, guitars sound cool too and the vocals sound a little thin, but there's good intelligibility. I would have liked the bass guitar to have more presence, I can hear what it's doing alright but "more presence" is my kind of bass, ala Chris Squire.
Bridge works, at this moment I'm used to the squashing so I can pay attention to the song, good job in there.


SingSing

Right off the bat I like this mix. Great guitars and drums. The bass isn't that great though.
Vocals sound a little thin but that's just my preference. Hi-hat sizzle tends to get weary after a while. I like what you did with the vocals on the bridge.
Nice mix. Interesting ending, but I like the original better.


Adam Miller

Ok, I like this mix, it simply sounds great. Really like what you did with the sampled breaks.
Great vocal sounds, drums sound great too, I'd like a tad more kick though.
I feel you crippled the 2nd verse with that edit, as I think this band features these abrupt style changes.
Great bridge, very emotional.


Boedoconstrictor

Sounds balanced but a little rough, ie: that delay on the verse was a little too loud. Guitars sound cool maybe a tad tamed. Aha! more polish on the bridge. Sounds good.
I'd say, I missed a little reverb on the snare, that's the only real critique I have for you, as it is now it makes the kit sound small. Everything else sounds good for my taste.


Fantomas

Lot's of reverb on the snare in this one, I'm not buying your kick though, too scooped maybe. Vocals sound great and guitars sound fantastic. Sometimes things sound a little detached, that's not good, but it's not fatal either. I lost interest on the bridge.


JHall

I like this mix, great snare, chunky guitars, nice vocals. I'd have liked a bigger kick drum though. I'm thinking the vocal echo might be a little loud.
I like the arrangement mutes on the bridge. -edit: Now that I know you didn't finish this mix I'm pretty sure it would have sounded killer if you had.


Southboundloco

I like the snare, and vocals. Cymbals sound thin though. Guitars are cool.
I like what you did for the sampled breaks, but I'm not sure about the bridge.
Very present mix.


M Carter

wow that was a big edit. Nice snare and vocals; snare is a little loud though.
Guitars sound cool but a little harsh.
I'm not sure about the arrangement edits. It seems to me you oversimplified the song, that is not always good, as it in turn makes the song predictable. But that may be just me.

And that would be "it".
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Adam Miller

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Re: IMP14 discussion
« Reply #119 on: September 05, 2007, 04:00:47 PM »

Baddo wrote on Tue, 04 September 2007 00:40

Adam Miller

Ok, I like this mix, it simply sounds great. Really like what you did with the sampled breaks.
Great vocal sounds, drums sound great too...


You are clearly a man of impeccable taste and judgement. Ta!
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