Topic: matching syllables to rhythm (Read 8358 times)

, · « **on:** August 07, 2007, 02:54:20 PM »

I heard a KT Tunstall song on the radio today, "Other Side of the World," which contains the phrase "same old tired excuses." But instead of singing "exCUSes," she sings "EXcuSES," stressing the wrong syllables. Is this a pet peeve for anyone else? It sounds so amateurish to me. Listen to anything by Chuck Berry or Paul Simon (except "Sounds of Silence") and they sing in a perfect conversational rhythm, which I think is one of the many hallmarks of good writing.

Here are some others that I find particularly silly:

Fleetwood Mac: "When the rain waSHES you clean, you'll know."

Jackson Browne: "Lookin' out at the road, ruSHIN' unDER my wheels."

Is it just me?

Kendrix · « **Reply #1 on:** August 07, 2007, 03:10:42 PM »

What I find to be much worse is when a given syllable is stretched across two notes to make it fit. ( I can't think of a good example at the moment). This usually sounds very contrived.

As for the J. Brown and F Mac examples you mentioned - i dont find those to be bothersome. As sung, they dont seem to pop out at me in an un-natural way.

A less obvious transgression is when two lyrics sung over the same musical construct have different syllable counts. Sometimes a few extra syllables get squeeezed in.
Even Elvis Costello and Dylan do this (their lyrics can get a bit wordy).
Sometimes it's barely noticable. Sometimes is awkward as hell.

My attitude is that strictly following these songwriting rules aint what its about. Its about...Whatever Works....for the song. Tradeoffs/imperfections are part of the package.

rollmottle · « **Reply #2 on:** August 07, 2007, 03:42:05 PM »

satellite wrote on Tue, 07 August 2007 11:54

Fleetwood Mac: "When the rain waSHES you clean, you'll know."

funny, it's idiosyncracies like this that are simply part of the reason why i love this song and this band so much.

ktownson · « **Reply #3 on:** August 07, 2007, 03:46:02 PM »

I think it's a "made you look!" kinda thing.

I find the misuse of articles (using "thee" before a consonant instead of "thuh", or "thuh" before a word starting with a vowel) to grate on me. Probably a result of choir directors harping on it over the years.

Much as I enjoy his music, James Taylor was one of the worst offenders.

, · « **Reply #4 on:** August 07, 2007, 03:58:53 PM »

Or when George W. Bush reads his speeches.

I'm a big FM fan myself, but Dreams came out when I was a kid, and even then it didn't work for me, although I didn't know at the time WHY it didn't work.

maxdimario · « **Reply #5 on:** August 07, 2007, 04:44:45 PM »

naw it don't bother me.. I think it's expression.

what REALLY BOTHERS ME is when they put a weak word on a strong note of the melody.

I HATE THAT!

McAllister · « **Reply #6 on:** August 07, 2007, 04:57:59 PM »

yes it bothers the holy snot outta me
the rhythm is as important as the rhyme

a big one for me was (Soul Asylum?): runaWAY TRAIN never comin' back

arggh

M

Careful Collapse · « **Reply #7 on:** August 07, 2007, 06:21:01 PM »

Conor Oberst (Bright Eyes) is TERRIBLE at that. Absolutely HORRIBLE.

Extreme Mixing · « **Reply #8 on:** August 07, 2007, 06:24:43 PM »

McAllister wrote on Tue, 07 August 2007 13:57

yes it bothers the holy snot outta me

M

I'm sure it bothers them, too. All the way to the bank!!!

Steve

rankus · « **Reply #9 on:** August 07, 2007, 06:31:02 PM »

A lot of the younger bands I'm recording these days tend to pull tricks like this... You have to do something to be different I suppose... I'm OK with it most of the time, but there are some that make me wince.

maxim · « **Reply #10 on:** August 07, 2007, 07:32:26 PM »

i try and match rhythm to syllables...

jwhynot · « **Reply #11 on:** August 07, 2007, 09:40:47 PM »

It isN'T ironic....

oh wait...

JW

, · « **Reply #12 on:** August 08, 2007, 12:44:12 AM »

jwhynot wrote on Tue, 07 August 2007 18:40

It isN'T ironic....

oh wait...

It took me a minute, but... very good.

garret · « **Reply #13 on:** August 08, 2007, 12:54:19 AM »

maxim wrote on Tue, 07 August 2007 19:32

i try and match rhythm to syllables...

That's an ole Lennon trick...

Need a few more syllables? just add a few beats.

Across the Universe is the best example.. I don't think there's a regular verse in that tune.

John Ivan · « **Reply #14 on:** August 08, 2007, 01:03:00 AM »

It doesn't bother me at all. I think it can be a cool thing, how people "work" a lyric into a musical idea. The Mac example is a good one. The "SH" sound is so musical in that case..

Interesting how we all have little things that drive us nut's.

Ivan...............

Oh, and I LOVE:

Mee-ee aa-and mithis--- mithis Jo-oones ms. jones ms. jones ms. jooness.

Wonderful

rollmottle · « **Reply #15 on:** August 08, 2007, 02:13:07 AM »

satellite wrote on Tue, 07 August 2007 21:44

jwhynot wrote on Tue, 07 August 2007 18:40

It isN'T ironic....

oh wait...

It took me a minute, but... very good.

isN'TIT ironic...

, · « **Reply #16 on:** August 08, 2007, 02:37:58 AM »

rollmottle wrote on Tue, 07 August 2007 23:13

isN'TIT ironic...

No it isn't, no matter where which syllable you stress.

Misused words may deserve a new thread, but one that gets me is John (ugh) Mayer:

"On behalf of every man looking out for every girl, you are the god and the weight of her world."

Does he know what "behalf" means? Is he singing FOR every man or TO every man?

Ian Visible · « **Reply #17 on:** August 08, 2007, 09:14:51 AM »

She's Scottish, that's normal pronunciation. Twisted Evil

Joe Black · « **Reply #18 on:** August 08, 2007, 10:48:20 AM »

Kendrix wrote on Tue, 07 August 2007 15:10

What I find to be much worse is when a given syllable is stretched across two notes to make it fit. ( I can't think of a good example at the moment). This usually sounds very contrived.

Huh?

Here's a good example, if your American, you've probably heard this song, it's the opening from the Battle Hymn of the Republic:

"Oh say can you see...."

I'm not really finding this particular thing in music contrived, but I got a bias.

, · « **Reply #19 on:** August 08, 2007, 11:46:29 AM »

Some American you are! That's the Star Spangled Banner.

Battle Hymn of the Republic goes "Glory, glory hallelujah..."

Brian Kehew · « **Reply #20 on:** August 08, 2007, 12:12:13 PM »

Duran Duran: James Bond theme - "...a view to A kill..."

This is what made GREAT writers work so hard. Trying to make ALL the parts make sense.

PRobb · « **Reply #21 on:** August 08, 2007, 12:31:57 PM »

satellite wrote on Tue, 07 August 2007 14:54

Listen to anything by Chuck Berry or Paul Simon (except "Sounds of Silence") and they sing in a perfect conversational rhythm, which I think is one of the many hallmarks of good writing.

When I saw the thread title, Chuck Berry was the first name that popped into my head.

I saw her from the corner when she turned and doubled back
And started walkin' toward a coffee colored Cadillac
Pushin' through the crowd tryin to get to where she's at
Campaign shoutin like a southern diplomat

Just say that out loud and you can hear the rhythm of the guitar.

Kendrix · « **Reply #22 on:** August 08, 2007, 12:57:13 PM »

Joe Black wrote on Wed, 08 August 2007 15:48

Kendrix wrote on Tue, 07 August 2007 15:10

What I find to be much worse is when a given syllable is stretched across two notes to make it fit. ( I can't think of a good example at the moment). This usually sounds very contrived.

Huh?

Here's a good example, if your American, you've probably heard this song, it's the opening from the Battle Hymn of the Republic:

"Oh say can you see...."

I'm not really finding this particular thing in music contrived, but I got a bias.

Next to last line...
Oh say does that star spangeled BAA AA NNER still wave....

We've gotten used to this one - but it still aint "right" to my ears

, · « **Reply #23 on:** August 08, 2007, 01:29:14 PM »

It's "YET wave."

Two Americans in a row who don't know the national anthem.

Next!

Joe Black · « **Reply #24 on:** August 08, 2007, 01:35:19 PM »

satellite wrote on Wed, 08 August 2007 11:46

Some American you are! That's the Star Spangled Banner.

Battle Hymn of the Republic goes "Glory, glory hallelujah..."

Heh, I'm an idiot!

Kendrix · « **Reply #25 on:** August 08, 2007, 02:05:54 PM »

satellite wrote on Wed, 08 August 2007 18:29

It's "YET wave."

Two Americans in a row who don't know the national anthem.

Next!

OK guilty as charged. Thats what multitasking does to ya.
To fully correct my post the last line is better represented as:

Oh say does that Star Spangled BA-AA-NE-ER YE-ET WA-A-A-AVE.

My point stands. Chuck berry gets it.

, · « **Reply #26 on:** August 08, 2007, 02:12:25 PM »

Ha ha, I guess you guys didn't go to elementary school in the south. It was all flags and Jesus with me. To this day I rebel: I steadfastly refuse to say "under God" during the pledge of allegiance.

You know, if Chuck Berry would just write us a new national anthem, we wouldn't have these problems.

jwhynot · « **Reply #27 on:** August 08, 2007, 05:04:51 PM »

Speaking of national anthems - at least the American one is pretty much the same as it always was.

Since I was a kid and singing the Canuck one in school, the lyrics have changed at least twice.

One result of which is, at a sporting event in Canada, only about 10% of the crowd knows the words.

At least the other 90% are sure they aren't offending anyone.

JW

Barish · « **Reply #28 on:** August 08, 2007, 05:15:22 PM »

Study some Sco'ish before ye judge, man, that's hoo we speak roon hier:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5q7t9AUuVSg

...and that's further education:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xk0sS4IFGXA

B.

PRobb · « **Reply #29 on:** August 08, 2007, 09:43:45 PM »

The Scottish weather report:

If ya canna see across the Loch, it's raining.
If ya can see across the Loch, it's aboot ta rain.

Rolling Eyes

Barish · « **Reply #30 on:** August 08, 2007, 10:58:27 PM »

Hehe. That's the reason why whisky was invented. The only total solution to make grey sky look light blue:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ILndvRyPPQ

B.

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Author Topic: matching syllables to rhythm (Read 8358 times)