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Author Topic: WUMP 12 TECHNIQUES  (Read 6248 times)

escape

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WUMP 12 TECHNIQUES
« on: July 20, 2007, 02:19:06 AM »

This is where we list what gear/plugs we used at what settings, why we chose those settings and what we were trying to accomplish as an end result with our choices.


Hey, check it out, I'm officially at Whoo-Hoo!! status with message #69 Laughing

What a bunch of cheeky monkeys! Shocked



<Edit> oh, it's gone now, but that was funny <Edit>
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ERIC JENSON
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E-Scapes Mastering Services
Miami, FL

escape

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Re: WUMP 12 TECHNIQUES
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2007, 03:29:25 AM »

bump.

We should probably wait til more reviews are out, but if you've already done your reviews of the other entries, why not?

I'll get my techs post together in the next few days.
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ERIC JENSON
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E-Scapes Mastering Services
Miami, FL

escape

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Re: WUMP 12 TECHNIQUES
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2007, 06:53:51 PM »

Here we go:

Out thru the Lavry to the Maselec:

Lo shelf 185 cut 1.5 to thin it out (more headroom)

57 Q4 boost 0.5 to bring back the kick a little

727 Q4 boost 3 to bring up the vox, affected the overtones on the guitars as well.

3k9 Q6 cut 1 to thin some more (headroom) and smooth a little.  

Hi shelf 5k9 boost 1.5 for some top end air

from there thru the Vari-Mu, no compression applied (although it does do something to the sound, even when not compresing, something to do with the tubes?).

from there clipping it into the Cranesong HEDD 192 with tape at 2, pentode at 1 for level. Sampling rate 96k re-captured in Wavelab. (I use the higher sampling rates if I'm clipping the HEDD to avoid SOME of the aliasing).

Izotope Ozone to catch intersample peaks, and to adjust ceiling.

Audacity for resampling with sinc-interpol to 44.1. The HEDD resampling is excellent too but I chose sinc-interpol for this, it worked fine.

Wavelab internal type 3(noise-shaping) dither to 16 bits ( I just like this dither, the general concensus seems to be that it's crap but it works for me just fine ( because it's there, really). maybe I haven't had enough time to compare sounds that I can barely hear?). It gets the job done regardless. I could have dithered With the HEDD too but didn't feel it necessary. Although it would have taken less time probably (could have dithered and resampled all at once in a re-re-capture). I need more experience and knowledge with this unit and have some details I need to know about it from Cranesong before I use it this way.
anyhoot.>

The End.



If I had it to do again I would have made the Loshelf cut higher in Hz, maybe 305. (Would have balanced the fundamentals of the kick with the chugs better)

I would have boosted the highs 1 instead of 1.5 to avoid overdoing the brightness, might have even dropped it to 0.5.

I wouldn't have clipped the HEDD so hard either and maybe would have added some more tape effect to it to bring up the levels and smooth even more, but I was reluctant to use these effects too much until I'm more familiar with them.
About 2 dB less on the clipping to retain more of the dynamics. But that wasn't loud enough for the client. However cutting the highs I would have been able to clip more and get away with it.


That's it.

Essentially all I did was EQ and clip, nothing too fancy. Which is a huge turn around from even a year ago where I was still all digital and experimenting with all kinds of fancy gizmos.

I gotta say, my analog EQ is the most powerful tool in my arsenal right now. I'm beginning to learn or at least theorize that EQ alone accounts for most of the sound quality in the final master, and also has alot more to do with how loud you can go then compressing or clipping does. But again this is still just theorizing. And that's a whole other thread to be dealt with.

thank you.






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ERIC JENSON
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E-Scapes Mastering Services
Miami, FL

Patrik T

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Re: WUMP 12 TECHNIQUES
« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2007, 09:21:30 AM »

I really did not write my settings down. I did my entry in 20 minutes or so. In general things were like this (all analogue):

Slight boost at 350 Hz. Don't remember the bandwith. Vintagedesign CA73 eq.

Some dip in the 1500-2000 range. Some slight boost in the 5000-6000 range. Could be the other way around. Portico eq.

Compression with a ratio of 1.5. 80 ms attack and 150 ms release. Rough figures. Didn't move the meters at all. Portico comp. FB mode.

No limiting, just straight into the Lavry Blue.

TPDF.


If I was to redo this, I'd only go with the Porticos. The CA73 introduced too much NFB for a track with tonnes of distortion already.


Best Regards
Patrik
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present

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Re: WUMP 12 TECHNIQUES
« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2007, 10:35:31 AM »

Well, I felt the mix was a little on the safe side both tonally and dynamically. Needed to be a bit more rock 'n' roll. (it was good to hear that many of us apparently thought the same)

Because I only have plug ins for eq'ing I tend to subtract mostly, but this time I really wanted to do some boosting, so after trying out every plug I settled for my Sonalksis EQ.

15 Hz HPF 24dB/octave

58 Hz +1.3, Q 0.8

170 Hz -2, Q 0.8

340 Hz +1.4, Q 0.6

3000 Hz +1, Q 0.6

High Shelf +0.5 @ 12k


then PSP Mastercomp, Ratio 1.2:1  Attack 60ms  Release 160 ms
gain reduction around 1dB

Voxengo Elephant, set to clipping. Clipping some on the loudest peaks, half a dB tops

Voxengo Elephant, AIGC-3, 'faster' release. Didn't really watch what it was doing, just adjusting the input, trying to find a balance between good level and not too much distortion


I must say, I'm getting more and more frustrated with plug ins, knowing what analogue can do, especially boosting. With plug ins it's such a balancing act between them not doing anything or doing too much you don't want. It's difficult to 'feel' them. I really need a good EQ at home. Man.

BTW Thanks for providing the mix, Eric. It was a pleasure.


regards
rogier
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Matt_G

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Re: WUMP 12 TECHNIQUES
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2007, 08:16:56 AM »

Like Rogier, I thought this mix could be brought to life both tonally & dynamically. I summoned up the metal in me & put myself in the front row of their concert, head banging the line array in time to the double kick... haha not really, however I did want to give the mix some balls & aggression, my key listening areas were the guitars, drums & vocals. Hopefully I succeeded in giving the track some life, something that would impact the listener & make Nanna cringe in fear.  Twisted Evil I had fun as I don't mind a bit of metal mayhem once in a while, now where did I put my b.c rich Warlock... RAWK!

Mix was converted from 48kHz to 96kHz with Sample Manager using iZotope's SRC. From there it was into Pro Tools HD where I set up my routing & processing chain. Throughout the session I also used Sonic NoNoise to manually declick a few areas & I also used de-crackle on bad tom fills to reduce the crackling distortion, same with some guitar distortion. I also did some volume automation pre limiter to ride the verses lower, so the choruses had more impact, it's not very noticeable but enough to give the track a bit of movement & life to counteract the high RMS levels. All I up I probably spent an hour on this track.

First insert was the URS A Series 48bit TDM plug +3db@50Hz fixed Q, +2db@500Hz fixed Q, +1db@3kHz fixed Q.

Second insert was the PSP Master Comp RTAS in expansion mode 0.5 Ratio, 0.01 attk, 0.1 rel, threshold -7.79, unlinked, soft knee,  S.C. filters set to 50Hz HPF & 16kHz LPF.

Third insert was DUY Wide TDM to widen the guitars & enhance the ambience a little, amount 14%, 9% boost at 1kHz.

This was bussed out through my HEDD 192 D/A to a Sontec MES-432C with the following settings... +1db@50Hz Shelf, +3db@36Hz Q6, +2db@13kHz Q5. then recaptured through the HEDD A/D with the following HEDD processing Triode +3.8, Pentode +5.6, Tape +1.2

From here it was back to digital processing starting with the Weiss EQ1 Mk2 in M/S mode... M channel +1.5@73Hz Q2.6, +1.8@1.24kHz Q1.7,  +2.2@5.27kHz Q1.3, +2@19.9kHz Q1.2 S channel +0.8@180Hz  Q1.2, +0.7@554.4Hz Q1.7, +2db@3.73kHz Q1.2

From there it was into a parallel compression set up, the compressed signal had 2 TDM inserts, the first was a Waves LinEQ Lowband with a -8db low shelf @ 117Hz in low ripple mode with dither on. The next insert was the new URS Channel Strip Pro (I'm currently demo'ing) The settings are too laborious to write out so see the attached screenshot.

index.php/fa/5761/0/


This was then combined with the uncompressed signal & summed on the master fader with the following inserts...

Analog Channel 2 in dual mono mode, roll off set to 35Hz, bump 16.9 USA A model, -1.1 bias, 265 release, 30ips IEC2.

Ozone 3, -4.1 threshold, output -0.3 Character 'very fast' 0.4, MBIT+ dither with no noise shaping set to 24bit & 'prevent intersample peaks' ticked. Limiting was done post SRC to 44.1kHz.

Looking back on the settings it seems like some excessive boosts in the low end on a number of EQ's, but there really was very little low sub content in this mix so I had to dig deep & no one said in their comments that my bottom was too excessive so that's a good sign that my room is translating quite well. I also rarely use the 'Triode' knob on the HEDD but it worked on this track as did cranking the 'Pentode' knob for the harmonics it brought out on the guitars. In hindsight I may have gone a little overboard by adding the AC2 tape compression (haven't used this plug in awhile), as it glued things a bit too much, but I liked the harmonics & energy it brought & it also bumped the perceived levels.

It's been fun boyz!

Matt
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Matthew Gray Mastering

Brisbane Australia

aivoryuk

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Re: WUMP 12 TECHNIQUES
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2007, 08:27:35 AM »

Matt_G wrote on Mon, 23 July 2007 13:16

no one said in their comments that my bottom was too excessive so that's a good sign that my room is translating quite well.
Matt


wow quite a complex chain then very nice.

were you referring to kick or sub as both myself and eric did say that the kick was slightly to much
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Matt_G

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Re: WUMP 12 TECHNIQUES
« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2007, 09:30:12 AM »

aivoryuk wrote on Mon, 23 July 2007 22:27

Matt_G wrote on Mon, 23 July 2007 13:16

no one said in their comments that my bottom was too excessive so that's a good sign that my room is translating quite well.
Matt


wow quite a complex chain then very nice.

were you referring to kick or sub as both myself and eric did say that the kick was slightly to much



I think the expansion on the PSP master comp & the parallel compression brought the kick out the most in terms of transient punch & level. I think that's what you are referring too? I wouldn't say that the kick sounded overly woofy or sub heavy or is that what you are implying?

Matt
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Matthew Gray Mastering

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Luke Fellingham

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Re: WUMP 12 TECHNIQUES
« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2007, 10:56:40 AM »

Here's what I did:

Used Sample Manager to convert to 44.1KHz

Sonnox Eq HPF @ 22.5 Hz

Out through Lavry DA10

Gryaf GX
I drove the input quite hard. Medium attack and fast release. Very little gain reduction, less than 0.5dB.  

Gyraf GXIV
+1.5dB @ 80 Hz Hi q
+0.5dB @ 180 Hz Hi q
+1dB @ 2.1 KHz Med q
+1dB @ 14 KHz Lo q

in through apogee converters - some clipping

Sonnox Limiter
Input gain +3.21dB. Attack 0.24ms. Release 7.34ms. Safe mode engaged. Enhance set to 100%. Output Level -0.003dB. Auto Comp engaged.

POWR-2 dither to 16 bit.

I know I pushed the level further than was beneficial. I guess I thought that everyone else would as well on a track like this. That just reminds me that it's more important to make things sound right than to attempt to second guess how other people will do things.
If I were to redo this I would start by lowering the output from my analogue chain so there was little or no clipping of the ADC. The apogee's don't clip very gracefully and I should know better. I think that just doing that would have given a much cleaner and still acceptably loud master.

aivoryuk

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Re: WUMP 12 TECHNIQUES
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2007, 01:53:50 PM »

Matt_G wrote on Mon, 23 July 2007 14:30

aivoryuk wrote on Mon, 23 July 2007 22:27

Matt_G wrote on Mon, 23 July 2007 13:16

no one said in their comments that my bottom was too excessive so that's a good sign that my room is translating quite well.
Matt


wow quite a complex chain then very nice.

were you referring to kick or sub as both myself and eric did say that the kick was slightly to much



I think the expansion on the PSP master comp & the parallel compression brought the kick out the most in terms of transient punch & level. I think that's what you are referring too? I wouldn't say that the kick sounded overly woofy or sub heavy or is that what you are implying?

Matt


yeah i was applying to the kick (i still class that as 'bottom' hence why i queried it). from what irecall the kick wasn't overly woofy or sub heavy.

glad we got that sorted Smile
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bslobodian

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Re: WUMP 12 TECHNIQUES
« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2007, 02:37:30 PM »

I did a couple versions and knew that the one I submitted would be the quieter. Listening on a K12 monitoring volume, it was plenty enough  for me (and the client was not there to tell me to push it Smile
From there I was able to listen to the others "quiets" and systematically had to lower the volume for the others. I did though listened then at equal loudness in another session.
I really would like to have the gear to use a "minimalist" approach like Eric stated but for the moment, I'm all plugs (hey, that's life !).

From there, monitoring through Benchmark DAC1 on Klein & Hummel 0300D + 2 JBL LSR12P (these I would really like to change), in a Bernard  Slobodian designed room (Ha-ha-ha):

- R8BrainPro Upsampling to 96KHz Ultra-steep mode;
- Voxengo CurveEQ (mid): 0.9 db @ 19 Hz up to 63 Hz (looks like a shelving);1.25 db @ 685 Hz; 5 db @ 9 KHz
- Voxengo CurveEQ (side):-0.6 db @ 117 Hz; -1 db @ 3 KHz; 0.9 db from 24 KHz down gradually to 6.5 KHz (looks like a shelving)
- Pultec Pro: tiny lift on the midrange eq @ 2KHz; again, tiny lift @ 100 Hz and 5 KHz
- UAD Precision EQ: +3 db @ 41 Hz Q9; -0.5 db @ 160 Hz Q14; -1.5 db @ 6.5 KHz Q20; +3 db @27 KHz Q14
- PSP MasterComp: Upward; tresh: -9.47; ratio 0.7:1; attack 3ms; release 286ms; side chain 41 Hz; detector set to soft and peak (limiter off)
- Waves SSL Comp stereo: tresh: 11.6; attack 10ms; release auto; ratio 4; make up 3 db; analog not tic ed.
- Voxengo CurveEQ (mid): again something that looks like a shelving +6 db @19 Hz up to around 53 Hz; +0.65 dB @ 870 Hz; small notch around 8 KHz and again +6 db from 24 KHz down to 11 KHz
- UAD Precision limiter: no input gain; ceiling set to -0.4 db; automatic.
- R8BrainPro Downsampling to 44KHz Ultra-steep mode
- Izotope Ozone MBit+ Dithering; noise shaping: ultra

Bernard Slobodian
smallmasteringstudio.com
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aivoryuk

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Re: WUMP 12 TECHNIQUES
« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2007, 05:40:17 PM »

here is my technique.

the mix was ok not great, quite a lot of mud in the guitars whcich seemed on top of the mix but at the same time not much bass guitar and smeary top end.

algorithmix red high setting

hpf 40Hz steep slope
80Hz shelf +1 dB 3.00q
130Hz -1 medium q
180Hz -0.5 med q
300 -0.5 wide q
12.5KHz -2dB tight q

Angeltone (i didn't like this plugin at first but have really changed my mind about this)

all milly setting
120 Hz -0.5
313Hz -0.5
2.5 KhZ +0.5

URS 1970 comp not doing a lot not more than 0.5 dB just to bring the guitars in
ratio 1.5
attack 22ms
release 400ms

Flux Solera
don't really use it for the compression
m/s to take the centre info up, does narrow the field a bit but i found it necessary to bring the guitars down in the mix.

src r8brain pro

waves l2 0.7 just to catch peaks.

i quite like my current set up as its quite clean sounding, some people prefer a more tube based set up but its not for me.
if i were to do it again i would not use such a high hpf freq and i would smooth out the high end a bit more which is all the more capable

this was all great fun
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Gabriel

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Re: WUMP 12 TECHNIQUES
« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2007, 09:52:55 PM »

This is what I used:

Processing at 48kHz

EQ:
LC 22Hz
-1.5 132Hz lo shelf
+0.85 184Hz
-1.5 319Hz Q 1.7
+1.2 1648Hz
+2.1 6438Hz hi shelf

DA HEDD

Pendulum OCL2
Ratio 2.5:1
attack around 30ms.
release around 0.3s.
max 2 dB gain reduction

AD HEDD some clipping going
pentode 3.5
tape 2

SRC r8brain to 44.1

Limiter and TPDF dither
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Gabriel Schmitt

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MT Groove

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Re: WUMP 12 TECHNIQUES
« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2007, 07:43:48 PM »

I did this really quick and I'm out of town now, so I don't have my settings in front of me.  From memory it was

Angeltone

+1dB Low Shelf @ around 65 (Sonny)
-1.5 @ aroun 192 (milly)


TC Electronics MD3 Compressor

Crossovers Off (essentially making it a single band)
Ratio 2:00 : 1
Attack 20, Release 50
Can't remember threshold


Sony Oxford Inflator

Cant remember settings


Voxengo Elephant

Clip Mode, 4x Oversampling
Input: 0
Output: -0.2

Bounced down to 44.1kHz 16 Bit at once in Samplitude using Ultra setting on SRC and Pow-R #1.





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Trillium Sound

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Re: WUMP 12 TECHNIQUES
« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2007, 02:42:59 PM »

Here is my take:

ITB out (Rosetta 200) @ 48 Khz to :

Weiss EQ (settings)
Cut 100 hz, -4dB, Q-15.

Out from Apogee Rosetta 200 D/A to:

Sontec 250 (settings)
+ 3dB Low shelf @ 25Hz.
- 1dB @ 180Hz / Q=6.
+ 3.5dB @ Hi-shelf / 10Khz.

to

Pendulum OCL-2 (settings)
Ratio = 2:0 approx.
Attack = 25 ms approx.
Release = 1.6 sec. approx.
1 dB GR max.

to

Manley vm (settings)
comp mode.
Attack = Med-slow.
Release = Med.
No GR except maybe .5 dB at peaks.

Back to Rosetta

Captured at 24Bit/44.1 (samplitude).
POWR-1 Dithering to 16/44.
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Trillium Sound Studio
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