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[rollmottle]

I just listened to ZZ Top's "Tejas" on vinyl and I am absolutely blown away by how incredible it sounds. I understand that the CD was released with overdubs and other attempts to alter the recording...why????

As it stands, this record is a masterful example of how judicious engineering and production decisions enhance the experience and vibe of the record. I am most impressed by how sparsely recorded this record is. You can hear everything living in its own space -- it doesn't sound under-produced, it doesn't sound over-produced...it just sounds right.

I am most inspired by the instrumental closer "Asleep In The Desert." It is not only a stunning piece of music, but the minimal recording and arrangement allows me to conjure a picture of exactly what the song seems to be about without resorting to studio trickery (well, at least APPARENT studio trickery.) I love that you can hear the players sitting and playing.

Terry did an amazing job of supporting the vibe of this record. This record is as real as it gets. More records should sound like this.

[carival]

Great record!  I've been revisiting the earlier ZZ records lately.  I appreciate them more than ever.

[Brian Kehew]

As Gibbons told me - "When the CDs came out, the label thought our modern fans wouldn't get the older sound. Me, I appreciate the original ones better..."

So they were remixed - triggered drum samples, sometimes the WRONG vocal track, chorus and reverb on everything.

The original recording rival Steeley Dan in sonics and quality of performance, with MUCH better music! As one audiophile I know said (when I played him the originals) "These are the unknown audiophile recordings in the Top Ten world!"

Get the Best Of CD with the smoking cowboys on the front - the closest you'll find to the original vinyl. So far....

[littlehat]

Great record. I've never heard the CD.

I recently had a conversation with a like minded musician.

We agreed that SRV and Eric Johnson owed everything to Mr Gibbons.

El Loco is my personal fav.

[RSettee]

Vinyl is the way to listen to those albums. Everything up to and including Deguello is killer. El Loco started the descent, Eliminator balanced a good blend of commercial appeal (read: the point where old fans start scratching their heads), Afterburner was pretty awful and everything's been hit or miss--mostly miss-- since then. But before that, ZZ Top are the kings of megaboogie--no bullshit, just three guys setting up and blasting out music the way it should be played.

Some say CCR is the greatest American band. I disagree. They're good, but they don't come even close to ZZ...they've been around for 37/ 38 years, never kicked a member out, no one left, no one died, no fake breakups/ reunions, (better yet, no fake bands simulating the real band) and barring the last 22 or so years of their career, they had a real damn good 15 or 16 before that--that most bands in themselves can't touch. Songs like "Heard It On The X" or "Beer Drinkers and Hell Raisers" are just vicious....they're close to metal on those songs. If more people heard the original recordings unaltered, and the first five ZZ records, they'd probably have a much better appreciation of Billy, Dusty and Frank. So yeah, ZZ= greatest American band that ever is, was and will be--to my ears, anyways. Plus, Billy's always been the king of guitar tone.

[littlehat]

RSettee wrote on Mon, 02 July 2007 23:22

Some say CCR is the greatest American band.

Who the hell says that?!?!?!

Seriously?

and I like CCR.

Greatest American Band????

Coltrane, Tyner, Garrison, Jones...

[rollmottle]

littlehat wrote on Mon, 02 July 2007 20:34

RSettee wrote on Mon, 02 July 2007 23:22 Some say CCR is the greatest American band. Who the hell says that?!?!?! Seriously? and I like CCR. Greatest American Band???? Coltrane, Tyner, Garrison, Jones...

heh...must be a Canadian thing.

[Bill Mueller]

RSettee wrote on Mon, 02 July 2007 23:22

Vinyl is the way to listen to those albums. Everything up to and including Deguello is killer. El Loco started the descent, Eliminator balanced a good blend of commercial appeal (read: the point where old fans start scratching their heads), Afterburner was pretty awful and everything's been hit or miss--mostly miss-- since then. But before that, ZZ Top are the kings of megaboogie--no bullshit, just three guys setting up and blasting out music the way it should be played. Some say CCR is the greatest American band. I disagree. They're good, but they don't come even close to ZZ...they've been around for 37/ 38 years, never kicked a member out, no one left, no one died, no fake breakups/ reunions, (better yet, no fake bands simulating the real band) and barring the last 22 or so years of their career, they had a real damn good 15 or 16 before that--that most bands in themselves can't touch. Songs like "Heard It On The X" or "Beer Drinkers and Hell Raisers" are just vicious....they're close to metal on those songs. If more people heard the original recordings unaltered, and the first five ZZ records, they'd probably have a much better appreciation of Billy, Dusty and Frank. So yeah, ZZ= greatest American band that ever is, was and will be--to my ears, anyways. Plus, Billy's always been the king of guitar tone.

Yep,

I had a number of jobs for ZZ Top in the early 70's up to late '74. On the Rio Grande tour, I drove the truck, set up PA equipment (and once blew all the breakers at the Palladium). On the Tres Hombre's tour I did drum roadie for Frank and then for a short time, was Billy's guitar roadie, tuning Pearly and his black custom guitar.

I have seen very few bands come close to them live. I have seen them do three encores and just KILL the third encore after I thought they could NEVER get any more intense after the second encore. The other bands were The Who (Who's next tour) and Aerosmith.

Best Regards,

Bill

[RSettee]

rollmottle wrote on Mon, 02 July 2007 22:40

heh...must be a Canadian thing.

Nope....these were Americans on a message board saying this, haha. When I evaluate the worth of bands, I always factor in a few things, but longevity is pretty damn hard to beat in any category.

Also, I forgot this: ZZ did tons of gigs. They were pretty much non-stop for many years.

[compasspnt]

Thanks Anthony and everyone for the nice words.

Working on those ZZ Top albums was a real fun time in my recording jaunts.

That "Tejas" album is one of my favourites as well.

But I must sadly remember that those horrendous re-digitisations literally broke my heart.  After the long hours and days and weeks and months of work to create a certain sonic signature that the band and production team were looking for, to have it all totally ruined was just unfathomable, at the time, and still today.

I personally believe it to be the biggest tragedy in rock recording, and I think it did more to harm a band's name than anything else ever has.

At the time those "Six Pack remixes" were contemplated, I refused to be involved for various reasons, but in hindsight I now wish I had done so.  At least the damage might have been minimised.

But the management wanted it done, and for financial reasons had allocated only three days or less to completely remix, "to digital standards," FIVE ALBUMS.

I lobbied heavily for the use of the real, original mixes, but the understanding of sonics at management level was limited, and the perceived-benefit lure of being able to say "Digitally Remixed for CD" was too strong for their small-picture minds.


I have refrained for years from writing the true story of much of the ZZ saga, especially that of "Eliminator," as I have always believed that the gentlemanly thing to do is to not tell stories.  But I am inching ever closer to dropping that taboo, and the bus is being driven by the memory of those reissues.

There is to be an Anniversary reissue soon of "Eliminator," and recently I was contacted AFTER THE LINER NOTES WERE WRITTEN AND TURNED IN, saying that they meant to contact me, but hadn't done so...sorry.  Another stake driven through the coffin...

And sadly I have no way of even listening to those original recordings, as I don't have my old vinyls anymore (long story), and totally refuse to hear the "remixes."

The Cowboy CD is somewhat close, but still doesn't reach it.  What is going on in Mastering these days...?

Best regards,

T

[Daniel Farris]

Brian Kehew wrote on Mon, 02 July 2007 19:27

So they were remixed - triggered drum samples, sometimes the WRONG vocal track, chorus and reverb on everything.

I had never heard that. That's fucking HORRIBLE!

DF

[compasspnt]

New Category:

"Crimes Against Music"




A lot of ZZ stuff was detailed in this archived thread

http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/t/3849/6490/

and elsewhere.

[RSettee]

Bill, you did some stuff with ZZ? Cool. Instant respect right there. I knew Terry did, but had no idea that you were there, as well. Did you help drag the cactus and bull setup around too? Just joking...I heard that they had a big desert type setup--it was pretty elaborate.

I remember hearing the remixed version of ZZ stuff and thinking, "wow, they were really ahead of the curve for 80's sounding production!". That's what happens when you mess with history. Worse yet, I still hear the remixed versions of "Tush" and others on the radio from time to time. My dad had a copy of "Fandango" on vinyl, and it perplexed me why they'd bounce from the old sound to new sound....

The WORST part (and I think I mentioned this before)--in the remixed versions, at least on the first record (which I naively bought, thinking it was the original mix), there is absolutely no mention, whatsoever, of any tampered versions or remixing at all. If there was a remix engineer, he didn't get credit. Whether this happened in the other albums, I don't know....someone else would have to confirm this because i'm not personally wasting money on those cds just to check the liner notes! So the worst part, Terry, is that your name is attached to a remix project that you didn't have involvement in, and i'm assuming that it's the same across the board in the other cds, as well.

[compasspnt]

"Tell me about it!"

Brutal.  And never forgiven.

I remember well the first day that someone brought one of those "remixed" CD's into my control room.  The second I heard it, I took it out of the player and scratched the CD with a knife.  Then i took a hammer and a large nail, and pounded the CD, back inside the jewel box/cover,into the wall as an ornament.  There was an ugly saying written upon it in Sharpie.


That was the day the world moved slightly to the left on its axis.

[RSettee]

One unit down, hundreds of thousands to go!