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Author Topic: Adding reflection: Question  (Read 2226 times)

Scott Selfridge

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Adding reflection: Question
« on: June 18, 2007, 03:47:24 pm »

I think my room might be too dead.   Embarassed  The whole ceiling is covered in acoustical tile.  It used to be a classroom.  The whole building used to be a High school.  I worry about removing the acoustic tile from the ceiling, because above it is a cement ceiling. There is also a giant cement pillar in the middle of the room and an air conditioning duct around the entire room, made of the same acoustic tile material.  The walls are Sheetrock and have been covered with some foam.  Walls that have been covered in foam, are not near my mix position and are under neath the air conditioning duct. This is a large room 50'x25' and I'm smak dabb in the middle. The floor is also cement,but covered with old, thin carpet. Probably used in every school across America.

 I put a bass trap up above my mix position (as suggested 6" deep w/O.C.705  48x72) and that helped quite a bit. As well as took away the Flanging effect I used to get when walking under the cement pillar's cross member.  However I am still not getting enough 700Hz2000kHz.  So my mixes are coming out a little bit on the edgy side.

Should I do even more bass trapping or should I add some wood to the walls/floor, to create some kind of  "pleasurable" reflection? Confused
I thought about trying to remove the Air Conditioning ducts.  Cutting them off from one side of the room. But they are large and I think they might be a good thing (or a cause of the problem), sense they look like bass trapping and keep the room from being completely square. The air conditioning ducts come out from the wall by about 3" and stretch to the ceiling for about 3.5"-4".  Ceilings are 12" tall.

Any help is definitley appreciated.

Thanks
Scott
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Ethan Winer

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Re: Adding reflection: Question
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2007, 12:18:59 pm »

Scott,

Quote:

I think my room might be too dead. Embarassed The whole ceiling is covered in acoustical tile.


The larger problem is that the absorption is not uniform versus frequency. Most ceiling tiles aim to absorb speech frequencies only. This is fine for a classroom or doctor's office, but not so good for a control room.

Quote:

Should I do even more bass trapping


Yes. You didn't mention how thick the foam is, or what brand, but thin foam has a similar frequency-selective problem as ceiling tiles. It absorbs mainly higher frequencies so the room is too dead yet boomy at the same time.

--Ethan

Scott Selfridge

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Re: Adding reflection: Question
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2007, 01:13:20 pm »

Ethan Winer wrote on Wed, 20 June 2007 09:18

Scott,

Quote:

I think my room might be too dead. Embarassed The whole ceiling is covered in acoustical tile.


The larger problem is that the absorption is not uniform versus frequency. Most ceiling tiles aim to absorb speech frequencies only. This is fine for a classroom or doctor's office, but not so good for a control room.

Quote:

Should I do even more bass trapping


Yes. You didn't mention how thick the foam is, or what brand, but thin foam has a similar frequency-selective problem as ceiling tiles. It absorbs mainly higher frequencies so the room is too dead yet boomy at the same time.

--Ethan

Hello Ethan,
Thank you for your time..
The foam is 2" thick "Auralex style" foam.  I'm thinking I should probably pull some of it down.  The people in the room, before I arrived, did cake one of the walls completely with it and the a wall under the belly of the air conditioning duct.

One thing I did notice.  Aftering building a wooden platform, for my drums, the Kick drum came to life.   Setting up the kit on the thin carpeted, cement floor sucked the tone/life right out.

It's really really hard for me to fly traps in this room. The concrete pillar's are virtually impenatrible.I've gone through a number of expensive masonry bits, trying to drill holes for achors. So I'm thinking about making 2 more of these huge things and putting wheels on the short and long side. In order to position them accordingly for mixing or tracking.

I saw this on your site and thought that my room might benefit greatly from a few of these. Maybe fill it with some OC703 glass?
http://www.ethanwiner.com/diffuser2.jpgand maybe I could incorporate this with one side of the moving bass traps, I'd like to construct.  

You mention "liquid nails" on your website. For mounting to cement.  Is that strong enough to hang a bass trap with? Say.... 6" thick 72x48?  With OC705, it gets pretty heavy.  I'm using Bungii cords now and I'm preying it holds.... Sad

I apologize for any vagueness.  I'm new to "Dialing in my room. I am amazed by how Bass Trapps seem like such a miracle cure. Smile

and thanks again..

-Scott
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Ethan Winer

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Re: Adding reflection: Question
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2007, 03:51:43 pm »

Scott,

Quote:

The foam is 2" thick "Auralex style" foam.


What does that mean? What brand do you have? I can tell you for certain that all foam is not equal.

Quote:

I saw this on your site and thought that my room might benefit greatly from a few of these.


We made that specifically to reduce the wall-wall flutter echo in a narrow room. Opposite that panel is a glass window. Ironically, my partner Doug now has absorbing panels on stands blocking some of the window and some of the wood, because that's where his reflection points are.

Quote:

You mention "liquid nails" on your website. For mounting to cement.  Is that strong enough to hang a bass trap with?


Probably.

--Ethan

Gold

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Re: Adding reflection: Question
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2007, 04:13:33 pm »

Scott Selfridge wrote on Wed, 20 June 2007 13:13

 The concrete pillar's are virtually impenatrible.I've gone through a number of expensive masonry bits, trying to drill holes for achors.


I don't know if I'm stating the obvious but a regular drill won't work. You need a hammer drill.
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franman

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Re: Adding reflection: Question
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2007, 07:57:39 pm »

I'm with Ethan on his first comment. The room sounds too dead because only the high freq is being absorbed and this can make a room dull and boomy... You need to have even absorption down through the lower octaves... There are many threads on bass traps here and I suggest you look at filling some corners and the back wall area with bass traps.. If these cover (or replace) some of the "foam" then that's a good thing.. Eliminate some of the High Freq only absorption, but be careful around the first reflection areas... Also, add at these points as you need at least 4-6" of absorption at these critical first reflection areas on side walls, ceilings, etc..
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