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[Andy Krehm]

bblackwood wrote on Thu, 16 August 2007 14:06

Andy Krehm wrote on Thu, 16 August 2007 13:00 Chris Athens and Sequoia (sorry I forget the company's name) both say that Sequoia works well on the new Intel Macs. Yah, but you're still stuck running XP. I want Sequoia to run in OSX. I don't have a problem with my machine, I just detest Windoze...

Ah, I see...

[David Glasser]

bblackwood wrote on Thu, 09 August 2007 14:46

David Glasser wrote on Thu, 09 August 2007 15:32 Full report soon. Please report back ASAP...

Well Brad, as promised, this is for you?

I have soundBlade up and running with the new Sonic 303 interface (firewire, 8 AES I/O + DSP). I've got 3 options that I think are essential: NoNoise Manual Declick, DDP Loadback, and the Multichannel option. The system has some I/O and editing limitations w/o the Multichannel.

System configuration is a bit convoluted - several pieces of software are required to get audio in and out of sB and the 303 - not the simple plug and play that I was used to w/ Sonic HD. But it seems to be behaving. The 303 contains a massive amount of DSP and signal processing that can be inserted into sB, but I haven't popped the hood on that yet.

If you've used Sonic HD, the main difference is speed. Otherwise, it looks much like an upgrade of HD. If you haven't used Sonic HD, prepare for a bit of a learning curve. The Sonic editing paradigm is unsurpassed; couldn't work without it. I'm a neophyte to plug-ins so I'm not doing much with that yet.

One great discovery is that soundBlade and PTLE will run simultaneously on the MacPro with acceptable stability - I know folks with PCs can run 2 soundcards and 2 instances of software. Now I can finally do something similar on a single computer - play from PT and capture to sB, using the same hard drive (an internal SATA drive). Once we get all the timecode stuff working, I'll be able to run sB & PT locked together.

Sonic HD has always been able to use a variety of file formats mixed together in the same EDL; sB now properly recognizes .L and .R suffixes instead of just .1, .2. for channel grouping. sB will write AIFF or BWF with metadata. Sonic HD projects and EDLs are readable by sB.

Manual Declkick now works on interleaved files - a huge improvement - it means that clicks can be removed from DDP masters without going back to the original EDL. For burning CDs, sB creates a DDP Image first. I'll miss the ability to cut multiple discs at once w/ cascaded CDW-900es, but that's progess.

The reason it's taken so long: along with the new Sonic stuff, I added a spiffy new DVI display that's switchable between 3 computers (and naturally had to upgrade some video cards, drivers, and KVM extender hardware): a G4 running Sonic HD, PC running Sonoma, and the MacPro running sB and PTLE. We also added AES, WC, and TC cabling for the new system so it would be a simple matter of swapping cable bundles to change over to sB as the primary system.

So Brad: if you're jonesing to move to a Mac (and who isn't) and you have some money burning a hole in your wallet, go for it. Sonic will be at AES with some new upgrades I'm told.

[masterlab]

David Glasser wrote on Wed, 19 September 2007 21:28

bblackwood wrote on Thu, 09 August 2007 14:46 David Glasser wrote on Thu, 09 August 2007 15:32 Full report soon. Please report back ASAP... Well Brad, as promised, this is for you? I have soundBlade up and running with the new Sonic 303 interface (firewire, 8 AES I/O + DSP). I've got 3 options that I think are essential: NoNoise Manual Declick, DDP Loadback, and the Multichannel option. The system has some I/O and editing limitations w/o the Multichannel. System configuration is a bit convoluted - several pieces of software are required to get audio in and out of sB and the 303 - not the simple plug and play that I was used to w/ Sonic HD. But it seems to be behaving. The 303 contains a massive amount of DSP and signal processing that can be inserted into sB, but I haven't popped the hood on that yet. If you've used Sonic HD, the main difference is speed. Otherwise, it looks much like an upgrade of HD. If you haven't used Sonic HD, prepare for a bit of a learning curve. The Sonic editing paradigm is unsurpassed; couldn't work without it. I'm a neophyte to plug-ins so I'm not doing much with that yet. One great discovery is that soundBlade and PTLE will run simultaneously on the MacPro with acceptable stability - I know folks with PCs can run 2 soundcards and 2 instances of software. Now I can finally do something similar on a single computer - play from PT and capture to sB, using the same hard drive (an internal SATA drive). Once we get all the timecode stuff working, I'll be able to run sB & PT locked together. Sonic HD has always been able to use a variety of file formats mixed together in the same EDL; sB now properly recognizes .L and .R suffixes instead of just .1, .2. for channel grouping. sB will write AIFF or BWF with metadata. Sonic HD projects and EDLs are readable by sB. Manual Declkick now works on interleaved files - a huge improvement - it means that clicks can be removed from DDP masters without going back to the original EDL. For burning CDs, sB creates a DDP Image first. I'll miss the ability to cut multiple discs at once w/ cascaded CDW-900es, but that's progess. The reason it's taken so long: along with the new Sonic stuff, I added a spiffy new DVI display that's switchable between 3 computers (and naturally had to upgrade some video cards, drivers, and KVM extender hardware): a G4 running Sonic HD, PC running Sonoma, and the MacPro running sB and PTLE. We also added AES, WC, and TC cabling for the new system so it would be a simple matter of swapping cable bundles to change over to sB as the primary system. So Brad: if you're jonesing to move to a Mac (and who isn't) and you have some money burning a hole in your wallet, go for it. Sonic will be at AES with some new upgrades I'm told.

WOW! You seem to be impressed!

But to tell you the truth: SADiEs have been able to do that for years. (No NONOise of course, but Cedars...)
Except I can choose if I want to write to DDP or CD.

Oh, I forgot: Sonic sounds so much better! And it runs on OSX!
And Macs are so much easier to use, especially Sonic....

   

Sequoia is also able to do that and so much more.
I can Brad see change his mastering daw tomorrow....  


Sorry couldn't resist.
3 Sadies here + MacMini with sB demo, makingmeshakemyhead

[Jerry Tubb]

masterlab wrote on Wed, 19 September 2007 15:26

WOW! You seem to be impressed! But to tell you the truth: SADiEs have been able to do that for years. (No NONOise of course, but Cedars...)

It's always mystified me why anyone would criticize anothers' choice of DAW(?)

iirc Glasser has been using Sonic DAWs for many years, and collected a few awards along the way.

...and several of us actually curious about his assessment.

JT

[soundroid]

David Glasser wrote on Wed, 19 September 2007 14:28

So Brad: if you're jonesing to move to a Mac (and who isn't) and you have some money burning a hole in your wallet, go for it. Sonic will be at AES with some new upgrades I'm told.

David,

Can I ask if how you were clocking the sonic interface?
was it internal or external?

Cheers

Joe

[masterlab]

Jerry Tubb wrote on Thu, 20 September 2007 05:47

masterlab wrote on Wed, 19 September 2007 15:26 WOW! You seem to be impressed! But to tell you the truth: SADiEs have been able to do that for years. (No NONOise of course, but Cedars...) It's always mystified me why anyone would criticize anothers' choice of DAW(?) iirc Glasser has been using Sonic DAWs for many years, and collected a few awards along the way. ...and several of us actually curious about his assessment. JT

Jerry, I'm far from criticising his DAW choice, everybody should use the tools he's getting the job done with.
Selling us sB features as a novum, which are standard on other DAWs is strange, isn't it?

Airshow's awards surely aren't only related to their Sonics DAWs, David and his team could have done their excellent work on any system.

To tell you the truth, I do take a look onto sB and other DAWs all the time, but sB seems to be behind all others so far and trying to catch up so slowly, that I'm not sure we all will be mastering music when sB has reached the features and ergonomics of other DAWs.

I think I can do my work on any system, some take more workarounds than others. Different work IS done on different DAWs here, btw.

But tell me: which DAW are you using now and why do you feel you want to switch to sB?

No offence, really just curious.

Cheers

[Stefano Cappelli]

Only a little question:
I'm thinking to build a DAW for mastering and re-mastering (denoising) pourposes, to add to my actual setup.
It's possible to mix audio interfaces so to have the DSP power of 300 series interfaces (also for NoNoise) and the routing capability of Lynx intefaces so to attach a TC6000 (8 I/Os) Weiss and so on, in the same machine and viewable and manageable by Soudblade?
Have you done some evaluation about this feature?

Thanks in advance.
Stefano

[bblackwood]

Thanks David, I appreciate the feedback. I'm definitely going to have a chat with the Sonic guys at AES. While it seems that Sequoia is quite a bit further along than SB, I'm still interested in trying it out.

Again, thanks!

[David Glasser]

Stefano Cappelli wrote on Thu, 20 September 2007 04:33

It's possible to mix audio interfaces so to have the DSP power of 300 series interfaces (also for NoNoise) and the routing capability of Lynx intefaces so to attach a TC6000 (8 I/Os) Weiss and so on, in the same machine and viewable and manageable by Soudblade?

The Sonic interfaces - 303, 304, 305 have a pretty extensive crosspoint router built in and controllable from a utility called Sonic Console. Limited at the momment to 8 AES ins & outs. Not sure if it can work w/ a Lynx card but that's an interesting idea. I do all my AES routing w/  a 32x32 Z-Sys which is very convenient.

[Stefano Cappelli]

Thanks David for the info.
If you are a Sonic user now, you can to subject thi idea to Sonic Studio people, so who said, may be in the next release 1.3...

Best regards,

[Jerry Tubb]

masterlab wrote on Thu, 20 September 2007 03:14

Jerry, I'm far from criticising his DAW choice, everybody should use the tools he's getting the job done with.

Agreed. imho criticizing a peers gear is a futile gesture, unless they ~ask~ for your opinion.

Quote:

Selling us sB features as a novum, which are standard on other DAWs is strange, isn't it?

We asked for David's well informed and sober opinion. Many of us Mac-Heads are curious about sB progress.

We already know that PC hosted DAWs; Pyramix, Sadie, Sequoia, Samplitude, WaveLab, etc. have all the features you'd ever need for mastering.

Quote:

Airshow's awards surely aren't only related to their Sonics DAWs, David and his team could have done their excellent work on any system.

Of course. iirc DG told me he used both NoNoise and Cedar on the award winning Charley Patton restoration job.

Quote:

To tell you the truth, I do take a look onto sB and other DAWs all the time, but sB seems to be behind all others so far and trying to catch up so slowly, that I'm not sure we all will be mastering music when sB has reached the features and ergonomics of other DAWs.

Agreed, the whole Sonic saga is interesting, but now they seem to be rising from their ashes, albeit late to the party.

Quote:

But tell me: which DAW are you using now and why do you feel you want to switch to sB?

If you reaaally want to know, check our website, or search the forums, plenty of relevant discussion there.

Don't wanna derail this sB thread into yet another Mac -vs- PC ad nauseum thread.

Not contemplating a ~switch~ to sB, but rather to add it to our audio arsenal.

Quote:

No offence, really just curious.

None taken, have a great weekend, and enjoy your choice of DAW!

JT

[David Glasser]

soundroid wrote on Wed, 19 September 2007 22:32

Can I ask if how you were clocking the sonic interface? was it internal or external?

I've always clocked everything, whenever possible, from my Pacific Microsonics Model 2 converter; I'll continue doing that while I try other clocking setups w/ the 303 and see if another clocking scheme works better. Sonic and Metric Halo claim the clock in their boxes is a good one. We'll see.

[soundroid]

David Glasser wrote on Fri, 21 September 2007 13:27

soundroid wrote on Wed, 19 September 2007 22:32 Can I ask if how you were clocking the sonic interface? was it internal or external? I've always clocked everything, whenever possible, from my Pacific Microsonics Model 2 converter; I'll continue doing that while I try other clocking setups w/ the 303 and see if another clocking scheme works better. Sonic and Metric Halo claim the clock in their boxes is a good one. We'll see.

thanks for the reply David.
I only ask because I currently have a 302 unit, and sonic has told me there are 'issues' with clocking this unit from an external surce. not sure if this has been fixed yet.

[jfrigo]

soundroid wrote on Sun, 23 September 2007 00:51

I only ask because I currently have a 302 unit, and sonic has told me there are 'issues' with clocking this unit from an external surce. not sure if this has been fixed yet.

Well, there are "issues" clocking anything from an external device, not that you could tell through all the marketing hype these days, but I digress... I hadn't heard about specific 302 issues. Though with both the ADC and DAC in the same box, most times you'd probably want to clock internally anyway, assuming that you got the 302 to use the converters.

[Jerry Tubb]

OK did my first soundBlade (v1.21) test recording tonight thru the Analog Processing Loop.

The real trick was configuring the i/o thru my Digi 192 hardware. The Patch went something like this:

soundBlade Panels 3&4 > Digi CoreAudio > Digi 192 AES > Z-Qualizer > Lavry DAC > NSEQ-F > Sontec 432 > ManleyVMu > Lavry ADC > L2 Hardware > Digi 192 AES > DigiCoreAudio > soundBlade Panels 1&2 > HDD  > Digi CoreAudio > Digi 192 AES (alt) > Benchmark DAC > Monitoring Path.

Here's the Digi CoreAudio configuration for the sB & Digi 192 combination:



Quite simple actually.

Assembled the mastered tracks complete with cross-fades. Set the PQ Marks, CD-Text, & ISRCs, (don't forget the "End Mark" on the last track) bounced the DDP image and burned the TY disc on a Plextor 716. Tested on Plextools fine. Proofed the disc for confidence in the process. By listening, I got the distinct impression that the dithering on sB is not as bright as PMCD(?)

Big Fun ! Reminds me of the first time I got SDII & Pro Tools to record many years ago.

I'll need to do more testing before ready for prime time with attended sessions, but basically it's off and running with a new Sonic DAW.

Just had to share : - )

JT