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Author Topic: IMP12 discussion thread  (Read 36562 times)

iCombs

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Re: IMP12 discussion thread
« Reply #90 on: June 07, 2007, 04:03:43 PM »

BigMetal wrote on Thu, 07 June 2007 13:39

iCombs wrote on Wed, 06 June 2007 16:46

HERE WE GO!!!  ROUND 1:

BigMetal - It kinda sounds like you just threw up the faders and panned stuff and called it a day.  Plus or minus some reverb.  The vocals sit too far back in the mix...and this is coming from a guy who's pretty notorious for burying vocals.  Get 'em up front where I can hear them.  Start there, because I'll tell you that they are the most important thing in this track.




I wish I had faders!!  badump pshh!  I'm always guilty of mixes being too even.  All the subtleties are too subtle because I think my mind tricks me (I know they're there so I hear them louder).  I guess I didn't get the point of the exercise when I approached the mix.  This isn't a knock on anyone, but many of the mixes seem like the "mix as a performance" is outplaying the actual performances.  When I threw up the faders I heard a vibe that was vulnerable and shaky... leaving the mix more stripped down seemed appropriate.  In hindsight I do agree that the vocals should be the focus.  I need help making things sound bigger.


Well, "the mix as a performance" is kinda what we're about here.  It's not a contest to see who gets it the "most right."  It's about flexing your muscles as a mix engineer and doing it the way YOU hear it...not the way you anticipate that the "client" wants to hear it.  This, at least for me has been huge as far as helping me create a sort of identity as a mix engineer, as I'm not looking to satisfy anyone but myself.  I've learned a lot about instinct...and I'm learning both how to trust my instinct and hone it so that when I go by my gut, my head comes with.
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Ian Combs
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dconstruction

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Re: IMP12 discussion thread
« Reply #91 on: June 07, 2007, 04:30:50 PM »

Hmm, I totally see it as a contest as to who gets it "most right."  I mean, for a non-contest.  I can flex my muscles all I want - but I may be exercising the wrong ones.   I think realizing the performance is "vulnerable and shaky" is exactly the "right" thing to do, versus, say, proclaim, "this song, it no work; needs everything wrong made right," and then come up with Vlad's Euro-beat thing.  Or even  UnderTow's - a mixer I have *enormous* respect for sonically.

I guess, in short, I wouldn't hire a "performance" mixer, and I wouldn't ask one to teach me anything other than their gimmicks.

Now, all that said, I'm pretty sure I did not get it "the most right."

L
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Billybehdaz

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Re: IMP12 discussion thread
« Reply #92 on: June 07, 2007, 04:51:54 PM »

dconstruction wrote on Thu, 07 June 2007 15:30

Hmm, I totally see it as a contest as to who gets it "most right."  I mean, for a non-contest.  I can flex my muscles all I want - but I may be exercising the wrong ones.   I think realizing the performance is "vulnerable and shaky" is exactly the "right" thing to do, versus, say, proclaim, "this song, it no work; needs everything wrong made right," and then come up with Vlad's Euro-beat thing.  Or even  UnderTow's - a mixer I have *enormous* respect for sonically.

I guess, in short, I wouldn't hire a "performance" mixer, and I wouldn't ask one to teach me anything other than their gimmicks.

Now, all that said, I'm pretty sure I did not get it "the most right."

L



As a new guy here, I don't want to get too opinionated, but I would have to agree with this.  I didn't see this as a "make it sound how I want it to" thing, but a "what is the artist going for", and how best can I bring that out.  Isn't that what mixing someone else's song all about?  Not trying to make it your own, but serving the song?

Having said that - I went way stripped down, cutting out a lot of the tracks for a more intimate feel, which I thought served the song best.  I was surprised at other's interpretations, most were much more "produced" then I thought was called for, but what do I know?

BTW, I've listened to about half, and I think I like Tom C's the best, based on what I've stated above.
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j.hall

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Re: IMP12 discussion thread
« Reply #93 on: June 07, 2007, 04:58:28 PM »

j-texas, you'll learn in time how laid back i am.  i was merely admitting my closeness to the track and why my mix ended up the way it did.

iCombs and deconstruction, you are both right.  the topic is really good, and i'm happy to see it come it.

think of your opinions as two ditches.  to me, they are both on the extreme end of what i consider a "mixer" to be (or at least consider myself to be).  the ground in between those two ditches is where you need to attempt to stay.

IMP is designed to teach you guys the ground inbetween the ditches by showing the ditches themselves.

you only get to see the ditches through other people's mixes.

WOW, i feel all king-fu now.

41 submissions!!!!!!!!!!!!

this is going to kill me.

mcsnare and i spoke on the phone today about a lot of things circling this imp, dave, would you mind sharing your comments about the lead vocal?  i think people could learn a lot from that.  use fibes' mix as your example.
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j.hall

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Re: IMP12 discussion thread
« Reply #94 on: June 07, 2007, 05:03:14 PM »

Billybehdaz wrote on Thu, 07 June 2007 15:51


Isn't that what mixing someone else's song all about?  Not trying to make it your own, but serving the song?




indeed, but don't sell short the fact that YOU are the medium of what exactly serves the song best.........this topic will get you looking down a rather deep rabbit hole

Quote:


Having said that - I went way stripped down, cutting out a lot of the tracks for a more intimate feel, which I thought served the song best.  I was surprised at other's interpretations, most were much more "produced" then I thought was called for, but what do I know?



i haven't listened to yours yet, but as the artist i would say you made a wise choice.

the song itself is trying to project simplicity to convey it's somberness, the outro to this song is SO important.  it's the clincher.  i'll get to that later.


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j.hall

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Re: IMP12 discussion thread
« Reply #95 on: June 07, 2007, 05:45:26 PM »

careful collapse, i love he drum treatments.   blowing them out was a cool idea, i like how it enhances the intent of the drums for the song.  they sorta plod along painting a picture all their own.

the thing that gets me as an artist is all the bleeps and bloops you add.  while it was a cool idea to add dimention, you took a song about a young boy seeking attention froma work-aholic father, and turned it into a lonely robot crying itself a river (A.I. style.....blue fairy, make me a real boy blue fairy)

the outro of this song was written to bring resolve.  where the song seems to be over (synth part and even more sparse drumming) and where you might think our story ends in an awkard relationship, we launch into a more triumphant outro.  so where you think the song is depressing and rather one dimensional, the outro serves to add the second chapter to the story, increasing the songs depth, and twisting something sad, into something rather good.

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ATOR

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Re: IMP12 discussion thread
« Reply #96 on: June 07, 2007, 05:50:49 PM »

I don't think there is one right way to mix a track. The great thing about music is that recorded performances will evoke different feelings with everyone. It's obvious if you listen to the wildly varying results from this IMP.

Every mix engineer interpreted it his own way, everyone heard different things in it. I didn't hear 'shakey and vulnerable' but more of a 'love and surrender' thing. Some picked the man as lead, some the woman, some felt the lead vox needed distortion and the list goes on and on.

No one but the artist himself knows how he meant it and sometimes they don't even know it. I interpreted IMP10 as trip because I heard the chorus lyrics as "Love's lucid fire". If I had known the lyrics actually were "Love losing fight" I would have made a different mix  Razz

I'm guilty of overproducing this track but for me it is how it feels right. For me it is where the tracks wanted to go, not because I wanted to flex my mixing muscles.

The part where I do flex my mixmuscles, for what it's worth, is trying to get the sound I want as good as I can get it, even if it's lo-fi.

I also don't think overproduced and intimate are opposites. I do think that you're missing the point if the production gets in the way of the vibe of the recorded tracks.

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J-Texas

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Re: IMP12 discussion thread
« Reply #97 on: June 07, 2007, 05:52:45 PM »


DAMN!! I DEMAND A FULL RE-MIX FROM MYSELF IMMEDIATELY!  Laughing

I wish I knew the answers to the test before I started.

iCombs - Now I know where you were coming from with the SFX outro being more pronounced.

So when is IMP-13 again?
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Jason Thompson
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Re: IMP12 discussion thread
« Reply #98 on: June 07, 2007, 05:54:32 PM »

Quote:

turned it into a lonely robot crying itself a river



lol, I thought it kinda sounded like a song by the Super Furry Animals, so I ran the guitar through a filter.  Oh well
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Billy V
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Billybehdaz

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Re: IMP12 discussion thread
« Reply #99 on: June 07, 2007, 06:14:21 PM »

ATOR wrote on Thu, 07 June 2007 16:50

I don't think there is one right way to mix a track. The great thing about music is that recorded performances will evoke different feelings with everyone. It's obvious if you listen to the wildly varying results from this IMP.




Yeah, you're absolutely right, I hope my post didn't come off like I was saying that.  I guess I'm just surprised by the variety in the mixes. With my limited mixing experience, I could only see it going one way, which was the way I took it.
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iCombs

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Re: IMP12 discussion thread
« Reply #100 on: June 07, 2007, 06:47:06 PM »

J-Texas wrote on Thu, 07 June 2007 16:52


DAMN!! I DEMAND A FULL RE-MIX FROM MYSELF IMMEDIATELY!  Laughing

I wish I knew the answers to the test before I started.

iCombs - Now I know where you were coming from with the SFX outro being more pronounced.

So when is IMP-13 again?



Therein lies the point of the whole exercise...next time around, you'll ask youself "what does this need?"  and if you've taken anything away from this, the picture will come a little bit clearer...your instincts will sharpen and you'll marry your intstincts to your brain and muscles and then the song.  

I haven't gotten a chance to get back to listening...but hopefully once I get through the weekend, I can post reviews and stuff...for now, I'll have to be satisfied by waxing philosophic.

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Ian Combs
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iCombs

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Re: IMP12 discussion thread
« Reply #101 on: June 07, 2007, 06:51:40 PM »

j.hall wrote on Thu, 07 June 2007 15:58

j-texas, you'll learn in time how laid back i am.  i was merely admitting my closeness to the track and why my mix ended up the way it did.

iCombs and deconstruction, you are both right.  the topic is really good, and i'm happy to see it come it.

think of your opinions as two ditches.  to me, they are both on the extreme end of what i consider a "mixer" to be (or at least consider myself to be).  the ground in between those two ditches is where you need to attempt to stay.

IMP is designed to teach you guys the ground inbetween the ditches by showing the ditches themselves.

you only get to see the ditches through other people's mixes.

WOW, i feel all king-fu now.

41 submissions!!!!!!!!!!!!

this is going to kill me.

mcsnare and i spoke on the phone today about a lot of things circling this imp, dave, would you mind sharing your comments about the lead vocal?  i think people could learn a lot from that.  use fibes' mix as your example.



I absolutely agree with you, J.  I just want to clarify and say that I in no way am an advocate of vladwankery in mixes...however, in the realm of IMP I'm more willing to go absolutely balls-out in the name and spirit of learning.  Here, we don't have clients to alienate.  So we can focus on our craft...and in some cases, if we feel the song calls for it, go absolutely balls-out-bonkers on a mix to find out if our instincts are worth trusting.  That way, when we take out instincts back to the land where the money is, we'll have that off-the-deep-end experience to call upon to perhaps bring that one great element of spice to a mix that makes the client go, "DAMN..I never woulda thought of that but that's amazing...can I pay you double?"
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Ian Combs
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Kim Watson

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Re: IMP12 discussion thread
« Reply #102 on: June 07, 2007, 08:34:05 PM »

Hey

Thanks J-Texas

The kick sound I was trying to go for was inspired by Aereogramme, "your always welcome" (album "my heart has a wish you would not go" <- wicked album btw)

have a listen you'll hear what I was tryng to get at... they added a delay to it aswell but that gave me some hastle so I pulled it.

knew it would fit the track when I heard it.

Kim
x

PS im gonna go through them all at somepoint tomorrow.... these shows im doing just get in the way!
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maxim

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Re: IMP12 discussion thread
« Reply #103 on: June 07, 2007, 09:26:42 PM »

my favourite is chance's

i never thought that downsampling would add such an unsettling flavour to the piece

it is a very "stephen king" mix



j, maybe it would be a good idea to state the background, or a "mission statement" with the tracks, so the mixer is aware of what the song is actually about BEFORE rather than after the mix?

maybe not...
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chrisj

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Re: IMP12 discussion thread
« Reply #104 on: June 07, 2007, 09:37:16 PM »

Oh my god, 41 entries. Kill me now Very Happy Okay, I am Mr. A&R guy with a briefcase of tapes from potential mixers, and I'm going through these like a buzzsaw. As usual not about the technical, more about whether I'm catching a vibe. Also, good mood so this time I'm not going to be like "WTF is this strange filenaming convention? *toss*" ...actually I'm going to be curious how everybody handles the synth digression, so this is going to take forever, plus J says it's all about the outro. Yay, hurt me more...

81328_briefcasemanximp12- wtf is this 81328? Very Happy boy, upfront and solid. Are we trying to pretend this is like a real band? Not into leaning on the keyboards this way, they are boring and sit there. This doesn't work as a straight mix, wonder how many others are straight.

Brian_Lloyd_The_Space_Doctor- Major major arrangement tweaks. It's dragging it out even more and making it even more static. Whoa, lyrics are seriously altered by rearranging lines! I can't approve, the song's lyric-driven and not that way by mistake. It's got few enough images already, you can't simply take them away arbitrarily.

craig_imp12- Very very gentle, but it feels like a mistake or monitoring issues, not a decision. Hey, there's the aggression- the whole outro is a huge contrast! I don't think it's executed well but I completely get what's being attempted. I don't think that has much to do with the song but I'm starting to think this song is way harder than it looked...

Greg_Dixon_IMP12- Something about this isn't interesting, as if it's trying hard to build the mix out of the performances, as if they are supposed to be rock performances in a normal rock context. The way the sounds are built, nothing is striking me as worth attention.

IMP_12_mcsnare- ah, the famous mcsnare! I hear STUFF happening, but I'm also catching a vibe that has the sort of spacey lonely thing I heard in the song. It's still acting too much like it's a normal song, but not completely- liking the synth part going into the outro- like the hints of 'offness' here and there. Fair enough, best yet Smile

IMP-012-TomC- immediate weird shit, yay! I'm liking the vocals here. I'm liking the vibe, for whatever reason the song seems important to the people in it this time. Maybe I'm not supposed to understand them but they sure are trying to communicate something. Minimal, but there's a song there. Dunno how to explain this- maybe further mixes will help fill in the understanding of what I'm hearing here. One thing is, the voices aren't being made weird, they're bare, exposed.

IMP12_bennals- UM LOUD? THIS SEEMS REAL LOUD BUT THEN THE VOICE ISN'T... where'd that femme vocal come from? Must have been the harmony. Lead vocal MIA completely. Song doesn't sound complete, at all. But then it's trying to sound like pop or something, so it sounds like a bizarre pop failure- can't do that with these tracks, no worky. CANNOT get rid of the weird stuff and have anything left. Missing the point *klik*

IMP12-BigMetal- huh, are we doing some kind of acoustic guitar simulation? Sounds different somehow. Another person who didn't like the lead vocal. I have a funny feeling that if you hate the lead vocal you're just fucked... it's defining the song so much that you can't remove it and have anything left. It's pretty amazing how that works. I wouldn't have called this a big star quality lead vocal but it still completely dictates the feel of the song. Well to remember when we're tracking lead vocals Very Happy after all, though this lead vocal isn't that clear, tuned, or anything, it IS honest and emotive in a subdued spacey way and that is apparently more important. Heh. Big lessons and I'm not even 1/4 of the way through...

IMP12_Billybehdaz- Boy, are they in a room! Very Happy Good hard try to present the appearance of a normal rock band. I'm not feeling how that's helpful. Again, something's missing. Everything sounds 'good' and pretty, but it's not bringing any drama. Again with the getting rid of weirdness. That wasn't what this song was about IMNESHO (not even slightly humble opinion! don't worry, I get humbled when everybody HATES my mix Very Happy)

IMP12_CarefulCollapse- BEATLES! Suddenly we're all Ricks and Hofner bass. WEIRD and edgy. WEIRD drum treatment with roaring distorting kick. Obviously not a bashful mix! Now does it bring anything? Hmmm. We're covering up the lead voice a little. I think that's the only real problem here. It's like all of this could be having mental breakdowns behind the lead voice but instead it's dominating. Beatles tip, the crazy weirdness NEVER kills the lead vocal, EVER. whoah! *LOL* weird ending! Most daring award (so far, possibly most daring period)

IMP12_ CHANCE_WRONG_SAMPLE_RATE- Whoah. It's a troop of monks doing basso harmonies! Where did the rattler come from, I don't remember it? Maybe it's just the different pitch. Can't criticise this because working on the wrong sample rate is horribly distracting- it's interesting and the heavy use of harmonizer is a bold stroke, as is the rattle. I don't feel the song at all, though. Oh well- better luck next time, I made the sample-rate mistake once too and it ruined my entry that IMP Smile

IMP12_ChrisJ- Boy, my drum sounds are disgusting Very Happy however, I'm still listening to hear if anyone had the same ideas as I did with those wacky synths. Swoopy one super distant and like a kaboom and rocket liftoff, beepy one super bright and dry like neurons popping. I had fun Smile

IMP12_darkhorseporter- Immediate problem with the lead vocals hiding and being shy. Can't rely on the instruments in this song, doesn't matter if the vocal doesn't seem to be saying anything. It is NOT just another instrument, it is the heart of the song, the place you look for meaning. This was a bitch of a song if you were trying to just get levels- it needed so much more, and the worst of all was to just balance everything cleanly.

IMP12_dconstruction- Why's the fundamental on the voices seem to be coming from the backing vocals? Ooooh, for a second I couldn't tell whether that distortion was drums or guitar in the background. I like the wavering of the guitars to set a mood. The distortion in the background is a little scary though. This is the first mix where I think the guy is DYING rapidly,  perhaps caught in some horrible mangle Very Happy audio snuff mix! The contrast between the vocals and those ripping distortions is more than a little disturbing Smile

IMP12_DevinK- Whoa, suddenly it's a nice tune. Very cool to lean on the bass that heavily, it quickly sets a pleasant mood. Guitars are pretty, chimey. I hear a hint of snare drum on the bridge. I'm liking this, and the reason is it's convincingly nice, but there are still disturbing elements- WHOA yeah, serious disturbing elements sneakily hidden everywhere. This is COOL. I am SERIOUSLY digging where you went with this. Just.. wow. If I'd known you could do this I'd have worked a lot harder at setting the 'pretty' stage in order to undermine it later...

imp12_grantrichard4- I enjoy the background noise on the bass track! The guitar is stepping on it, though, I liked what the intro bass did so much that I want to hear more of it, want it (and the lead vocal) to be the centerpiece. Instead there's a droning quality I'm not liking, coming from the guitars and organ. I am also liking the drums, though. But too much is compressed at once. I don't hear it as good that EVERYTHING is smashed as a stunt. Good- no GREAT on the bass track but some of that stuff ought to lay back...

IMP12_Jason_Thompson_Heavier- Normalish so far, hmmm. This mix doesn't sound vulnerable. It doesn't sound sick. A weird complaint, I know. It's very pretty with the phasey stuff on the organ and all, maybe it's the most convincing 'straight' rendition I've heard yet. So convincing that it's winning me over, yes it is precious Wink I'm also approving of the arrangement reshuffling on stuff like the synths, you got away with it, bigtime. Satisfying. It's down to the artist to let you know whether you're supposed to feel satisfied after this song is heard- or unsettled, adrift Smile Regardless, GOOD work.

IMP12_MCarter-USE- But what if I don't WANT to touch the weenis? Boy is that an extreme vocal effect. Kinda neat how it's blasting away with the guy's breathing and all between verses. Now it needs to stop and change to a regular human, but it pretty much doesn't. I'm surprised Jen doesn't get a look in. No outro ATall, which apparently is a major gaffe with the songwriter, why is that? I'm thinking it's because the vibe set in the outro was a sort of release, important. Without it I can tell you that the song feels constricting, and with the intense vocal treatment it's like hearing from a guy locked in a little box at the bottom of a long steel tube. Yes he needs saving but he's not appealing anymore Smile

Imp12_NickT- Kind of straight. The risk I run trying to crit 41 mixes is that I'll burn right out and not be able to hear anymore (assuming I could in the first place!). I'll need to take some breaks. This mix feels straight enough that I'm not connecting with it very well. I'm hearing the irregularities as mistakes, they're not setting a weird tone for me, because the context seems so normal. I wonder why that's not the case with Devin's. *compare* partly because Devin ran with the rumbley kick drum and isn't also making snare and hat 'big' and poppy. Absence of 'normal' snare and hat is a cue that something's weird.

IMP12_rattleyour- Sort of polished, but I'm getting a sense of vulnerability off this anyway. That holds for a lot of sounds, actually- like the hat is real bright, but still has a character to it. I think some of the stuff sitting in the background is helping. Yeah, I like- it's a trip, definite lysergical quality. Ends too soon. (THAT'S a compliment as well as a crit- you should have kept going, but to do a mix and when it ends the listener was like 'hey, want more'? GOOD)

IMP12_scottoliphant- Um, it's kind of leaning on me. Guitars, keyboards are taking up a lot of space and seem to be poking me in the ear. Largely that organ I think. Straight vocals but they're not taking my attention enough, they're fighting with the organ and guitars. Everything's fighting to be loud a bit. Some bits like the snare are very neat sounds but it's not making me want to be listening to this. *klik*

imp12_singsing- VOCALS. That's some serious spotlighting on the vocals, plus the attitude is pouring off them. if anything it's a bit too much- too emo or something, there's a resigned relaxed quality also in that vocal and here it is obliterated, totally eradicated. That's a risk of pushing the 'tude on the vocal too hard. It's less appealing but more compelling this way. I have an INTENSE sense of a personality behind the vocal, but I don't want to save him Smile

imp12_superloud- interestingly, not super loud! I'm feeling the sparseness and emptiness here, which is good, I think that's part of the vibe. I don't think the female voice should dominate, even though it's prettier- it's a harmony melody, it's not a lead melody. So, major criticism is, why isn't the lead vocal a lot more central? It's not about how pristine the performance is, it's how well you can hang a song on it- it's like you hung the song properly on the vocal but then turned it down some.

imp12_tw- huh? Oh, it's the organ. Which does have its vibe. Unfortunately it's annoying this way... The rest of the song feels good, it's just that organ which hurts. Outro feels VERY empty, interesting. Somehow the outro feels more like a song than the song does, maybe because that empty quality was there in the song and is wildly exaggerated by the outro?

imp12_Yanik- reamping-R-us Wink sounds sort of hair-metal, only without passion. Definite big feel, like it's trying to do a stadium thing, except it's not being backed up by the song, the song's not trying to go there. The thing is, if the mix and the song get into a fight, the mix is always wrong Very Happy sorry- if I get into a crit, I'm not going to worry about whether _I_ am wrong, much less whether my own pathetic twiddlings are as good. I'll just level with whatever my gut reaction is, and in this case we're talking empty stadium soundcheck here. The song's somewhere else.

IMP12----El Duderino- bzzt, gratituous dashes and a space in the name when the rules said not to! NO SOUP FOR YOU! Just kidding, you can have soup. Might wish you hadn't... OK, I never like hearing the annoying parts of the organ more. However, the vocal sounded like a person- good! Crazy indie guitar fragging on the left there... produces funny events. I think you could lose the vocal echoes and other than that, this is pretty solid, largely because it preserves the weird bedroom-recording vulnerability in the song while making it huge. This is the biggest mix that I've actually liked... apart from the organ I don't want to turn it off. There's a mood in there. I think it's coming from the imbalances and wrong elements somehow, definitely from some things being too bassy and the guitar being too distorted and grungey. Contrasts with no one element carrying the song.

imp12-agp- hey, this isn't IMP 9? Boxy voices, highlighted organ- what this does have going for it is the vocals are direct and communicative, and the rest of the track is completely whacked! It screams 'indie indie INDIE INDIE' which I think the song expects, I just don't like all the choices of what is highlighted. Whoa big outro, that's really loud. The word for this mix is NAIVETE. Normally I think you'd have to show more skill... big fan of the tail-off crackly-guitar-pickup organ chord, I really liked that idea, better than what I did. (yeah, I know, 'better than ChrisJ' is passive-aggressive insultry Wink )

IMP12-ATOR- Whee, instant arrangement change, just add BEEOOoooooouuuwwwww Wink This comes off as heavy, but I keep hearing things I like, things I'm not expecting. This might be the _heaviest_ mix I actually like. I can tell right away I like it, and I'm trying to figure out why... again with the direct, communicative vocals, and the experimentalism isn't stepping in front of the lead vocal. BGvox, hell yeah, you're clobbering them sometimes. I'm not hearing weak wastingness in this one, nothing 'so much sick' about it. It's strong with those synths all over it, just weird as anything. I think it could go closer to the mood of the song, but at the same time it really stands on its own.

imp12-maxim- In this mix, we hunt for hooks! Lots of hooks! Paste them all over! Very Happy Seriously, the actual mix has the experimentalism knob cranked to 11, which is a pretty good call here- it seems a little fugitive, but the bits that are poking out have a somewhat unsettling air, which I like. What I don't like is, the lead vocal is bye-bye. That's the track with the point of the song, you can't take it away and then try to do its job with the mix. The mix should be reinforcing it, not replacing it. Granted I'm just a silly freak but EVERY track I've liked has had the lead vocal right there feeling like a person- not hiding behind anything. It makes me nuts when the lead vocal hides. What could be more important?

imp12-spoon- THERE IS N... sorry Very Happy always wanted to say that. Starting to get less rational, so many mixes. How about 'there is no lead vocal'? What's the background vocal doing replacing him? That's not a lead vocal melody, it's just not. Many spankings for hiding the lead vocal. The rest of the mix ain't bad, but ChrisJ is losing it listening to mixes with hiding lead vocals...

IMP12-UnderTow- Yay, weird introness! Synths cut and pasted everywhere! This is certainly establishing the 'so much sick' concept, though funnily enough the singer doesn't seem vulnerable at all. It sounds like he's SMILING, then he's on a telephone. A lot in the mix is supporting a disorienting lead vocal, but the lead vocal itself has been made stronger somehow. I don't remember it being sung strongly and solidly, there's a vulnerability that has gone away. WHOA- you have to tell how you produced a sort of flanged conga track out of what you were given, because I'd swear it was new tracking and if it was, BZZT Wink

imp12-v1-leester- ARGH more hiding lead vocal! Do you guys REALLY think this song, THIS song, has to be fronted by a slick sexay studio babe? Never mind that the melody isn't a lead melody. It's distracting me so bad it's hard to focus on the rest of the track. Which seems nice, not too glossy, sort of warm, the right kinds of unsettling elements in there- but yikes! Prettiness in voice is a COLOR, it's not the whole point. Mute Dylan why dontcha Wink

IMP12._-_iCombsMix- Wha! Yikes! Ahahaha! What the hell are you doing? *ROFL* That is the weirdest intro yet! Kinda GOOFY. Eeek, techno delay-sting! This is making me laugh and smile- just WHOA. I'd like more lead vocal because the guy's being smothered by all this crazy stuff. Of course, that kinda-sorta works... I LOVE the spacey, vague feel. Well played sir Smile

imp12Anonymous- Hmmm- interesting choice with supporting the beginning on organ only. Everybody knows I don't like the harmony vocal taking center stage so I'll shut up until the next time... this feels very tentative, very tentative. I think it would work if the lead voice was plastered way up front and the rest of it stayed tentative. I don't think it helps having Jen be the focus. Heh, interesting outro trick! That's a pretty big arrangement change, though. And it makes him FOLLOW her, again, she's not the lead vocal.

Imp12Fantomas- Getting back to the more 'straight' this time with harmonies added. AGAIN LEAD VOX HIDES ARGH ok I'm better now. I'm not into having the vocals be with the lush reverb and the guitars be dryer- it feels like the vocals are more 'produced' which doesn't work for me here. nifty transition to outro! Liked the jump in loudness. Where are you guys getting the loud background hiss ending the song? ...and why??

IMP12Fibes- yay added elements. Backwards, repurposed harmony vocals etc. The thing is, I'm not feeling that 'aaa-aaaahhh' is BETTER for hearing it every few seconds Wink it starts to be like, oh no, her again. What I AM really liking is the funny filtered drum echo. That feels cool as hell. I could listen to the whole track with ONLY the drum echo trick for extra elements added. AAAH! aaa-aaah! aaaaaaaaaah! I'm going to wake up in the middle of the damn night and go 'aaa-aaaahhh' and scream! My cats will start doing it! Oh no no nooooo... I'm sorry, brain starting to show strain of too many mixes by now...

IMP12garret- Hey, I just noticed I'm hearing lots of organ and not hating it this time! Why is that? The chorusing maybe? I'm LIKING the vocals here. I like their balance and I like being able to focus easily on them, and after the Fibes track (sorry...) I like that they have a natural sense of unedited flow. It seems like not so much was done with this one, but it worked.

imp12JHall- Yup, I knew the vox would be solid. Things seem really solid and upfront. Including the vocals, ironically- not my favorite vocal treatments, simply because they sound too strong. Loses vulnerability and openness by putting on a bit of a gloss, bit of an edge- same thing as with SingSing but not anywhere near as much. In general, solid solid solid, obviously an understanding and sense of the song, it's just that on this song I want the singer to not feel as strong- while still being totally central to the mix. If that makes any sense?

IMP12Liam- Mellowness. This has a placid feel, with nothing much violating it, even the drums are big warm and DISTANT. So mellow. Now it would be interesting if, instead of the muttering echoes, there were hints of the synths or that distort-one-guitar trick. I felt this track loved having unsettling elements subtly sneaking in, this mix is so lacking in unsettling stuff that it's distressing me a little. Too easy to tune out.

IMP12Mix_by_Andrew_Brierley- Cold. I don't know why. That's not a criticism, it's a vibe. I don't like how bright the hat is, but on the other hand, I got real vibe off the vocalist singing 'so much sick'. I'm liking the vocals, a lot. They're a little thin, a little shiny, but they're getting LOTS of that vulnerable, exposed quality I was looking for in this song. Compare to J's, which has more of a 'rock vocal' presence and authority, where Andrew's has more of a 'sonic event' presence, barely enough warmth/depth to carry it, but feels way more vulnerable- and it's the same track.

Kimwatsonimp12- Nice vocal blend! Guitars sound excellent- liking the kick and snare in the context of the song- harmony vocals hotter than they need to be, but in general WOW, this has LOTS of vibe. It's maybe somewhat polite. Aggressiveness isn't really there though it's not lacking in size or power- the thing is, that works for this song, because there's a very limited range of ways the mix can be aggressive without screwing it up anyway. This one felt gooood.

OMGWTFBBQ that was the last one! I finished!!! Very Happy

God help me, I'm gonna get clobbered this time. Oh well, I deserve it for being such a bastard. Blame the workload of having way too many songs to crit- and too many WITHOUT LEAD VOCALS argh! aaa--aaaaahhhh! o/` aaaaaah there's that hook again, it followed me! aaaah!

Wonder if it'll all fit in one post?
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