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Author Topic: Can I let go now...?  (Read 3149 times)

OTR-jkl

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Can I let go now...?
« on: April 22, 2004, 03:13:14 pm »

Question about Release times...

Is it a true statement that - generally speaking - release times ought to get shorter as freq increases? Isn't that how the ARC works....it holds on to lower freqs longer than higher ones...?

?sdrawkcab lla ti evah I od rO
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J Lowes · OTR Mastering
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bblackwood

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Re: Can I let go now...?
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2004, 01:40:51 am »

Yes, lower freqs require longer release times than higher freqs...
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Brad Blackwood
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dcollins

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Re: Can I let go now...?
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2004, 04:35:12 am »

bblackwood wrote on Thu, 22 April 2004 22:40

Yes, lower freqs require longer release times than higher freqs...



The trick is to get the limiter to figure out the shortest release time that still sounds good. That's what the ARC is up to.

DC

Bob Olhsson

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Re: Can I let go now...?
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2004, 09:09:30 am »

dcollins wrote on Sat, 24 April 2004 03:35

 
The trick is to get the limiter to figure out the shortest release time that still sounds good. That's what the ARC is up to.

The challenge is that opinions vary as to exactly what that release time ought to be!

bblackwood

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Re: Can I let go now...?
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2004, 06:18:19 pm »

dcollins wrote on Sat, 24 April 2004 03:35

The trick is to get the limiter to figure out the shortest release time that still sounds good. That's what the ARC is up to.

Indeed. Does anyone currently do it better than Waves?
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Brad Blackwood
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OTR-jkl

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Re: Can I let go now...?
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2004, 08:39:45 pm »

Quote:

The trick is to get the limiter to figure out the shortest release time that still sounds good. That's what the ARC is up to.

How do it know...?
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J Lowes · OTR Mastering
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mcsnare

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Re: Can I let go now...?
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2004, 10:19:25 am »

I'm a sucker for super fast release times. That'll really put some carbonation into a mix.
Dave

Ronny

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Re: Can I let go now...?
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2004, 11:23:32 am »

OTR-jkl wrote on Sat, 24 April 2004 20:39

Quote:

The trick is to get the limiter to figure out the shortest release time that still sounds good. That's what the ARC is up to.

How do it know...?



Look ahead technology is how it knows and the release time can change many times on a typical song. Longer release times not only for lower frequencies, but also for RMS content. Higher frequencies and peak transients require faster release times than lower freq's and low level content. It's impossible for a human to manually change the release times as much as the L2 does it with ARC. The ARC is one reason that the L2 can get hotter RMS, before distortion artifacts set in. Limiters without ARC will pump and breathe sooner as the release time doesn't vary. Other limiters with ARC are equally effective and some allow manual control of the look ahead time. 5 to 7ms is a typical effective range for look ahead time. Virtually inaudible to the ear, but not to the lightning fast algo's that are implemented in ARC.
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------Ronny Morris - Digitak Mastering------
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OTR-jkl

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Re: Can I let go now...?
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2004, 10:32:44 am »

Quote:

I'm a sucker for super fast release times. That'll really put some carbonation into a mix.

Yeah, easy for me to like 'em too - makes things sound more open (although not as thick...)

Quote:

Longer release times not only for lower frequencies, but also for RMS content. Higher frequencies and peak transients require faster release times than lower freq's and low level content.

Yes. Thanks for the education on this - already made sense but I needed to find out for sure.

On a similar note:
Generally speaking, is it typical for release times for compression to be longer than those for limiting?
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J Lowes · OTR Mastering
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Ronny

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Re: Can I let go now...?
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2004, 11:44:33 am »

Quote:



On a similar note:
Generally speaking, is it typical for release times for compression to be longer than those for limiting?



I'm sure that everyone has their own ways, but for me with brick wall limiting yes, "generally speaking" shorter release times for mastering the stereo track, but it's not all that simple. For example multi-band I tend to wind up with longer release times on the low end and shorter on the higher bands. It's also highly content and instrument dependent. On the tracking and mixing end, compressing bass, violins, cellos, bowed instruments that have have long sustain and long fade outs, extremely long release times, sometimes 700-800ms. Snare, kick, percussive instruments very short release times. More like 10-50ms. The percussive attack on a piccolo snare is only around 8ms after that the level has fallen way down, the over ring fades rapidly for around 100ms. Kick, the attack is around 25ms and the over ring rides to around 200ms. Fast attack times are just as important with transient instruments as release times are, because 95% of the energy is in a very short timespan. I often get good results on snare with 0 attack time. Bottom line it's hard to give a general answer without hearing the content and knowing the application. I just listen and tweak until I get what I want.  
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OTR-jkl

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Re: Can I let go now...?
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2004, 12:03:29 pm »

All good info Ronny, but I don't think you understood my Q...

When applying both comp & limiting to a track during mastering, is the release time for the comp generally longer than the release time for the limiter (assuming no ARC)? Or does it even follow any such guideline?
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J Lowes · OTR Mastering
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Ronny

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Re: Can I let go now...?
« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2004, 11:39:19 am »

OTR-jkl wrote on Mon, 26 April 2004 12:03

All good info Ronny, but I don't think you understood my Q...

When applying both comp & limiting to a track during mastering, is the release time for the comp generally longer than the release time for the limiter (assuming no ARC)? Or does it even follow any such guideline?



As I mentioned in my last post "generally speaking" yes. The reason is that the limiter is designed to keep peak transients in check. Because peak transients "generally speaking" require shorter release times than RMS content, I typically set them shorter on limiting than on, less than infinity ratio compression. One of my limiters has a max release time of only 200ms. Some of my compressors will go over one second release time.
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------Ronny Morris - Digitak Mastering------
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