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Author Topic: Anatomy of a Session in May  (Read 707683 times)

mmazurek

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Re: Anatomy of a Session in May
« Reply #30 on: May 25, 2007, 09:46:02 AM »

I need to replace my STC-8 knobs also.

(thanks for the idea)

The little white dot on the front of the knob rubs off with wear.
I've sat 'hunched over with a mini mag-lite' adjusting settings before trying to see where the knobs are at.

A bit frustrating, at times.

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jwhynot

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Re: Anatomy of a Session in May
« Reply #31 on: May 25, 2007, 02:04:26 PM »

You know, white dot or no, I find I can't see settings on gear like I used to...

Interestingly it's forced me to make quick adjustments "blind" - and so far I've had absolutely no problem with it!  Even if I have to "recall" something - I guess the eyes are further down the rabbit-hole than the ears - lucky for my family.

Reminds me of my first couple of projects on an SSL J9000 - brand new board, much-hyped.  100+ tracks of film score on a severe time limit.  And sometimes when I turned on the uglimation all the faders would zap down to the off position...  Very exciting!  But it forced me to pay closer attention to how I was setting the balances - using one of about 4 or 5 methods/procedures that people use...  Anyway in self-defense I had to be able to get the balance close again really quick.  In effect I learned to keep a very clear memory of how all those faders were placed - or at least have a mental trail of crumbs to find my way back.

I had some fun visits with George from SSL that week - and of course they did get their machine sorted out.

Side effect - now I'm never nervous if people sit near faders.  "Go ahead, turn it up...".  I can just put it back again.

Terry, I've been using similar setups on drums for a few projects recently - last album project we had a 77 on the "kick" (actually outside the kick drum, kind of under the ride cymbal pointing approximately at the batter head hoop - really beside rather than inside the drum) and an imitation 251 where my head would be if I were giving arrangement advice to the drummer - right in front of the kit.  I should mention that the drummers I commonly record need advice from me like they need a hole in the head, but anyway...

It's a commitment for sure not to point something right at the kick from in front.  I never like the sound of mikes inside the drum, but that's personal taste I think.

But this last project the two drum tracks sounded really perfect just like that.  We played with some boutique compressors we had, but I kept the uncompressed signal as well and frankly prefer it - although for playback and overdubs the artists were thrilling to the extra pump from the comps.

Makes me wonder if sometime I should impose and post a few photos?  Would that be a welcome thing?  Might be a while - I have a series of writing projects before the next band.

Thanks Terry!
JW
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compasspnt

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Re: Anatomy of a Session in May
« Reply #32 on: May 25, 2007, 02:27:38 PM »

Excellent John!  Please post pix when you can, although I know full well how hard it can be to get around to it.

I don't know why so few people seem to understand how thrilling drums can sound with one 251 or C12 or the like right in front of the kit.  Maybe they don't have access to great microphones, or maybe their drummers suck, or maybe they are insecure.

When you walk into the tracking room and the drummer is playing, doesn't it sound powerful and exciting?  If not, why not? When it does so, are you putting your ears, one at a time, right down an inch in front of heads?  Or are you taking in the full glory of the sound as it emanates from the kit as a whole, reverberates from the wood and glass, and mixes itself into one big instrument?  If the latter, why not capture that?

Of course, often drummers themselves want hundreds of microphones on their precious splashes, chinas, 4"- 6"- 8"- 10" baby toms, etc.  In our present case, when we recently had a writing and demo session, I tracked with just the two microphones, and Todd immediately, upon the first playback, fully got it.  In fact, he was excited by the prospect of HIM being the balancer of the bombastics.

I agree that often a bass drum can and does sound great mic'd from outside, in fact even from the front batter side.  In this case, I found my best spot inside, mounted on the pad-stand.

Best regards.
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compasspnt

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Re: Anatomy of a Session in May
« Reply #33 on: May 25, 2007, 02:33:22 PM »

rankus wrote on Thu, 24 May 2007 22:15

Thanks Terry.  I am now going to have to paint mine black too.. they look great.


One little suggestion: take the covers off before spraying.

Quote:

I am curious as to setup time before you commence tracking.  You must spend a couple of days just working on micing and getting sounds?

One instrument at a time, then a run down or two with the whole band playing to check leakage etc.?


The fewer microphones you use, the less time you need to get good sounds.  We did the drum setup and sounds the first evening, after load-in.

Each other instrument takes a few minutes, I guess, but nothing to write home about.

After initial sound check, I like to hear the band play a song other than what we're going to record for 2-3 times, as I make sure everything is gelling together.  Microphone or mic placement changes, preamp levels, etc., will be made and maximised during these run throughs.

Good to go.

A lot of this, of course, is from experience with a myriad of other sessions, as well as having worked with the band in question before as well.
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compasspnt

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Re: Anatomy of a Session in May
« Reply #34 on: May 25, 2007, 02:37:17 PM »

Peter Beckmann wrote on Fri, 25 May 2007 04:37

Does the STC-8 sound better with those vintage knobs? I've heard they can make it warmer!

Seriously though, I'm guessing you did that for easier recalls.

Thanks Terry, fantastic post. Keep it coming.


Sorry Dave H, I love the unit, but I just couldn't stare at those green knobs.  And they are a bit difficult to see from some angles, to note positioning.

So I put some classic "chicken head"  pointer knobs on.  If you do this though, do be very careful, as you have to make a particular note of some settings...otherwise, you may lose your way.

It does sound better now, as well.
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Fibes

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Re: Anatomy of a Session in May
« Reply #35 on: May 25, 2007, 04:55:31 PM »

What was it about the Bova secret I missed?




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RMoore

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Re: Anatomy of a Session in May
« Reply #36 on: May 25, 2007, 05:24:22 PM »

compasspnt wrote on Fri, 25 May 2007 20:27

 
I don't know why so few people seem to understand how thrilling drums can sound with one 251 or C12 or the like right in front of the kit.  Maybe they don't have access to great microphones, or maybe their drummers suck, or maybe they are insecure.



Wow - great thread Terry,
thanks for posting all the info & pics!
As for the above - the single greatest drum sound I ever heard in my life was a single ELA M250-> V72 -> Studio A-80 -> monitors...
At someone's private studio in Amsterdam,
where I was buying said V72.
A jazz-oriented place.
It was just stunning & an unforgettable experience..
The perfect sound from the lowest lows to the highest highs...
Obviously the room was nice, the drums were high quality and tuned etc..


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compasspnt

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Re: Anatomy of a Session in May
« Reply #37 on: May 25, 2007, 06:28:25 PM »

Fibes wrote on Fri, 25 May 2007 16:55

What was it about the Bova secret I missed?


You confuse us, sir.  How are we to know what you missed?

You are also a Bovinite, is that not correct, sir?

I merely took two of said spherical objects and placed them as ears would be, if one's head were a tape box, and one had two microphone stands instead of a spine.
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Unwinder

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Re: Anatomy of a Session in May
« Reply #38 on: May 25, 2007, 06:30:53 PM »

compasspnt wrote on Fri, 25 May 2007 19:27


I don't know why so few people seem to understand how thrilling drums can sound with one 251 or C12 or the like right in front of the kit.  



It may be because many people have seen(or read about) alot of mics and complicated setups...and resolved that this was why the drum sound must be so good? ...the misconception that if every drum is miked up close...you get the 'impact' of each drum...resulting in a powerful, complex sound. This was what i thought anyways...and i was completely wrong.

Within the last year or so, i've come to realize that I love the idea of keeping things really simple and going one mic at a time...on all the instruments.

It's easier on my head.

D.

compasspnt

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Re: Anatomy of a Session in May
« Reply #39 on: May 25, 2007, 06:31:45 PM »

jwhynot wrote on Fri, 25 May 2007 14:04

I never like the sound of mikes inside the drum...


On another note, if one does get a sound they do like from the inside, then that microphone should have far less interference with the main microphone that is on the outside, in a sort of a phasical way.
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Bernardo

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Re: Anatomy of a Session in May
« Reply #40 on: May 25, 2007, 08:07:23 PM »

compasspnt wrote on Fri, 25 May 2007 14:27

I don't know why so few people seem to understand how thrilling drums can sound with one 251 or C12 or the like right in front of the kit.


I have to say, at least in Brazil, that it's pretty rare to come across a 251 (took me over ten years working in audio to be in a studio that had one) or an actual C12 (never been in the presence of one, only the VR).
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jwhynot

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Re: Anatomy of a Session in May
« Reply #41 on: May 25, 2007, 08:25:15 PM »

Damn my PT system is in total meltdown today - and it's not even because of Digidesign!

So I have time to type while I restart...

Anyway - I like the small number of mikes, and I also like more mikes too.  Depends on the situation.

The theoretical advantages are clear - but the theory breaks in a couple of places.

I mean, just to be devil's advocate here...

Sometimes you can paint a photograph and have it look more real.  And on top of all that, what about expressionism in audio?  Sometimes it's cool to warp things with close mikes.

The microphone is not a human ear, and vice versa.  The microphone lacks the attached processor, for better or worse.

Still, I do like a good drummer through a couple good mikes.

JW

PS I don't generally have a 251 available either - so I have been using a re-make by Groove Tubes.  (I think...).  I gotta say, whether it can stand right next to an original 251 or not, it's a hell of a nice microphone.
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Bill Mueller

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Re: Anatomy of a Session in May
« Reply #42 on: May 25, 2007, 09:08:59 PM »

jwhynot wrote on Fri, 25 May 2007 20:25

Damn my PT system is in total meltdown today - and it's not even because of Digidesign!

So I have time to type while I restart...

Anyway - I like the small number of mikes, and I also like more mikes too.  Depends on the situation.

The theoretical advantages are clear - but the theory breaks in a couple of places.

I mean, just to be devil's advocate here...

Sometimes you can paint a photograph and have it look more real.  And on top of all that, what about expressionism in audio?  Sometimes it's cool to warp things with close mikes.

The microphone is not a human ear, and vice versa.  The microphone lacks the attached processor, for better or worse.

Still, I do like a good drummer through a couple good mikes.

JW

PS I don't generally have a 251 available either - so I have been using a re-make by Groove Tubes.  (I think...).  I gotta say, whether it can stand right next to an original 251 or not, it's a hell of a nice microphone.


John,

I think you may be missing a tiny bit of the point here, (or not).

Terry is giving us much more than a look at his favorite mics and pres. If he was truthful, (which he is) we could find out that stuff in a Mix Magazine article. Terry is really letting us into the mind of a master who does not give a damn what is being peddled to us unfortunates out in the world. For how many years have we been fed the concept of multi micing every instrument we see. More mics, more professional.

Terry says, "I do it my way thank you." And it works. We can't pay for that. It can only be a gift. While some of us will copy those mic placements and preamp selections to a fault, it will still not improve our music until we free ourselves of the BS and hype being fed to us and begin to believe our ears.

Terry is a fan of Frank. This makes so much sense. Those Sinatra recordings are SO clear and precise! The magic is in transferring 50 year old techniques to modern music. That can only be done within the zone. Fearless. With vision.

I got to see Terry's setup for Jason and the Scorchers many years ago in Nashville. What was the name of that studio? Paradise something, if I recall! He had drum mics ten feet in the air in a room that had twenty five foot ceilings. I never saw anyone record like that before. It was a real eye opener for me.

Anyway, the wine is wearing off. Got to go get some more.

Thanks Terry,

Best Regards,

Bill



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Fibes

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Re: Anatomy of a Session in May
« Reply #43 on: May 25, 2007, 09:15:30 PM »

compasspnt wrote on Fri, 25 May 2007 18:28

Fibes wrote on Fri, 25 May 2007 16:55

What was it about the Bova secret I missed?


You confuse us, sir.  How are we to know what you missed?

You are also a Bovinite, is that not correct, sir?

I merely took two of said spherical objects and placed them as ears would be, if one's head were a tape box, and one had two microphone stands instead of a spine.



I keed.

Me being a Bovanite means much less than you being one. Now the secret is truly out of the bag.

FWIW I've done "the standing man" with the mics at ear height in front of the kit placed in a similar fashion sans the tape box. I am now ready to makeshift a Jecklin instead of using a gobo of immense hypothalmus proportions.

Jimmy is a monster BTW.
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compasspnt

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Re: Anatomy of a Session in May
« Reply #44 on: May 25, 2007, 09:20:24 PM »

Jimmy is under, and out of, control.

I am so glad he is home.






Bill, that was probably Treasure Isle, or possibly Emerald, depending upon the album.




Best regards.
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