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Author Topic: define indie rock...  (Read 12642 times)

j.hall

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Re: define indie rock...
« Reply #60 on: May 27, 2004, 09:33:12 am »

ivan40 wrote on Wed, 26 May 2004 23:15


That's just my take on this whole "INDI/credibility/sell out/Punk/metal/death metal/emo/?>@#$% It's rock music period. And wether or not something has credibility will change from one person to another. Labeling music in this way has always puzzled me and I'm glad I listen to almost every style of music in the world or I would go to sleep.



labels exist for communication, and clarification.  a world with out labels and categorization would be very difficult to navigate when trying to communicate your thoughts to another person.

see this thread, http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/t/600/23/?SQ=c4dc 7fb76b8a345df226f23ed77fef64

for my comments on this subject......
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John Ivan

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Re: define indie rock...
« Reply #61 on: May 27, 2004, 12:45:40 pm »

Hey J::

Yeah ,I read the thread. Interesting set of ideas. I understand the concept of needing a way to communicate ideas and styles to one another verbally. I guess for me, Classical,Blues,jazz,R&B,Soul,Folk, And what I call American Modern covers it :-}.{see,I had to make one up which sorta proves your point}. I'm just saying that most stuff I hear that is referred to as indi/or/alternative, is just the same stuff I was learning in my basement when I was a kid. I don't mean to imply that I don't like some of it because I do. It's just that if we keep on insisting on a new label for everything within a style {R&R} people will strive to be that,or not be that..I think this can hinder creativity. If a kid is writing a tune with his band and the drummer says,"dude, this is to nu-metal!" he will be like " oh no, I don't want to sound like nu- metal!!" It would be better if he could forget about what people call the stuff and just write the damn tune..


I have some hard stuff that I dig. I think older Sound Garden was fucking great. "Rusted Cage". I thought Black hole Sun was great too, {very Beatles sounding}. I had some very early But Hole Serfers stuff and thought it was cool. I thought Rage against the Machine was great shit. That stuff pined me to the wall. For me, I want the players to kick ass in a big way. After the writing, the most important thing to me is mad mad skill on the instruments. But it's all rock and roll. I put Sound garden and Rage in the same box. Rock and Roll
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"Transformation is no easy trick: It's what art promises and usually doesn't deliver." Garrison Keillor

 

j.hall

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Re: define indie rock...
« Reply #62 on: May 27, 2004, 02:42:33 pm »

ivan40 wrote on Thu, 27 May 2004 11:45

If a kid is writing a tune with his band and the drummer says,"dude, this is to nu-metal!" he will be like " oh no, I don't want to sound like nu- metal!!" It would be better if he could forget about what people call the stuff and just write the damn tune..



exactly.....just write songs, whatever they turn out to be

not enough people write for the song, they write for an agenda....

Quote:


I have some hard stuff that I dig. I think older Sound Garden was fucking great. "Rusted Cage". I thought Black hole Sun was great too, {very Beatles sounding}. I had some very early But Hole Serfers stuff and thought it was cool. I thought Rage against the Machine was great shit. That stuff pined me to the wall. For me, I want the players to kick ass in a big way. After the writing, the most important thing to me is mad mad skill on the instruments. But it's all rock and roll. I put Sound garden and Rage in the same box. Rock and Roll


yeah, well......rock is an all encompassing title....it all breaks down from there

i think there are plenty of indie rock bands that are doing something you've never heard before

sure, some influence is in there, but it's not all just regurgitated songs.

check out burning airlines.....i think you'd dig them
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John Ivan

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Re: define indie rock...
« Reply #63 on: May 27, 2004, 06:44:41 pm »



yeah, well......rock is an all encompassing title....it all breaks down from there

i think there are plenty of indie rock bands that are doing something you've never heard before

sure, some influence is in there, but it's not all just regurgitated songs.

check out burning airlines.....i think you'd dig them
[/quote]


Oh, I have no doughts that there are great creative things going on out there. I don't mean to imply that all these bands are regurgitating rock songs either. I'm just saying that if we keep chopping the name of rock and roll up I wont be able to keep up :-} They have done the same thing to roots music too. Some of the music that they call jazz anymore is some kind of bad joke. I love great rock and roll music and I let the individual bands make their statement in my mind for me. And if I had to figure out what to call everything,I'd go nuts. Zep is just that,Zep. the stones is the stones. It already has a name.
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grock5

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Re: define indie rock...
« Reply #64 on: May 28, 2004, 01:01:51 am »

ivan40 wrote on Thu, 27 May 2004 00:15


There are plenty of REALLY REALLY talented folks who make records because they love their music and at the same time want to make as much money as they can.



And they are two completely different things... Music & Money.

Not every band plays clubs with the hope of playing somewhere bigger.

Not everyone with a guitar wants their face in times square.

Some folks play for now, not for future deposit.

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I just don't buy this whole concept about "selling out" In the 90's,I almost got out of this biz because of this attitude. If a record sold a bunch of copies, the folks who made the record were selling out.



In my mind "selling out" means compromising the ____ of your music for money.
(insert beliefs, integrity, ideologies, art, longevity, style at "_____")

If you've been in a band with an anti-major label agenda, signing songs about how everyone should boycott GE because they manufacture nuclear weapons, then sign to sony and play SNL, you just sold the fuck out.

If your in a band whose "day-to-day" has always simply revolved around trying to get a hit, and getting signed, then you won't sell out, you can't sell out, EVER.
Unless by chance you accept money to shut up and walk away, which IMO, is what they should do to the majority of the bands on majors today...

Quote:


This music turned into a HUGE commercial success and I don't think people come into this biz hoping they don't make any money.



Most folks I know hope to simply break even. They run small labels and put records out themselves because they have a sick passion for it, they want to get the music out.

Not everyone playing songs and releasing records views their activites as being part of the ""biz". It's more of an addiction to communicate. Because thats what they need to do.

Myself, I record these motherfuckers for money. I play music because it's fun and I've got songs...
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John Ivan

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Re: define indie rock...
« Reply #65 on: May 28, 2004, 10:42:26 am »

I found out at a very early age that I loved playing music more than anything else and then, realized that if I wanted to do it every day and get better at it, I had better learn how to make money at it. So, wether I'm playing a show or recording a band, the money part has to be there or I don't get to do it. I don't think about money when I write songs though. Of course, I haven't made any money as a writer yet either.{except for writing some jingles} If I had my way I would do something else for money but At almost 40 years old, I made my bed and sleeping in it isn't as bad as I let on sometimes. The thing I would love to do is engineer full time but as you all know,this is no easy thing to get done. Everyone wants to do this and there are a lot of talented engineers out there.


Money has always been part of what I do. The more ,the better.
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"Transformation is no easy trick: It's what art promises and usually doesn't deliver." Garrison Keillor

 

Jbuntz

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Re: define indie rock...
« Reply #66 on: May 28, 2004, 12:42:46 pm »

I didn't read this whole thread so I apologize for the possibility of redundancy.  Historically, indie rock means independent obviously which usually goes hand and hand with those bands that do not get signed to major labels which means they usually don't have a lot of commercial appeal.  Those of which who don't have the commercial appeal but are talented and/or orignal become influential in cult circles.  Now it is also associated with certain genres typical of non-commercial but successful bands and the stylistic term for "indie" has become about as vague as "alternative" or "emo" has.
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j.hall

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Re: define indie rock...
« Reply #67 on: June 01, 2004, 02:44:21 pm »

we're crossing lines here, which is fine by me.....but we need to see the lines, IMO

in our society, money is required to survive.  this is not up for debate, it's a cold hard fact

sure, you can live in a box, and beg for food....don't give me some extremist pile of crap

money is required......

the only thing we can do for money is offer our time and expertise at something specific

if you are and artist, and you are entertaining some one, money is what you are entertaining them for......that is in fact, what we all need to survive.

so, feeling bad, or justifying the act of seeking money as an artist seems silly to me

the underground, as a whole, judges the pursuit of money so negatively, it drives me CRAZY.  we can't keep doing all this if we don't receive enough money to at least break even.....i've lost SO MUCH cash just maintaining my instruments it's silly......
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John Ivan

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Re: define indie rock...
« Reply #68 on: June 02, 2004, 03:31:39 am »

Right on. I would love a world where we didn't have to worry about money but,we do. I can dig the cost of keeping the instruments happening too. Man, we're going out for a few weeks and some of it is drive dates and some is fly dates. The gas is going to kick our ass on the drive dates and it wont be long before airline tickets go up. We are getting slightly nerved out about this.
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"Transformation is no easy trick: It's what art promises and usually doesn't deliver." Garrison Keillor

 
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