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[Bo]

for me, indie rock is about creative control.  making art for its own sake not for financial gain.  If it's accepted and one gains success - cool.  But art is at mercy of the almighty dollar, and that's a shame upon the industry.

Bands that got me into indie music: starflyer 59, pedro the lion, braid, get up kids, at the drive in, fugazi

My fav indie bands (condensed version): fugazi, unwound, lewis, at the drive-in (all but 1 release were on small labels), dreaming of the fifth, death cab for cutie, fletcher, bosque brown, and the appleseed cast.

 

[Fibes]

jakabo wrote on Wed, 28 April 2004 14:16

Just a quick chime in...I finally got around to reading it when my partner loaned it to me somewhat recently. But topically, this is a good read. "Our band Could be Your Life: Scenes from the American Indie Underground 1981-1991" by Micheal Azzard. http://www.twbookmark.com/books/35/0316063797/ ken

Great book, the drama surrounding the omissio0n of CVB is pretty fucking weird however.

[spankenstein]

j.hall wrote on Wed, 28 April 2004 09:56

spankenstein wrote on Wed, 28 April 2004 09:46 It's this point that it becomes a fine line I think. Making music or making business. what i'm saying is that you have to have some idea of where you want that business to end up. denying the fact that art is business, IMO, is simply ignoring the entire scope of the process. this is true for all forms of art.  at least, i whole heartedly believe this to be true, and i have yet to be convinced otherwise.

I'm well aware of the business of it, I guess I worded it wrong... My intention was whether the reason was truly the music or the money.

I play and record because I love it. I play it for people because I truly want to share it but it's not free. You pay for the show, the time, the CD, the packaging, me running from place to place to get things done. It's not free for me so it's not free for you.

In other words is it where you're going or the getting there that  is more important.

[j.hall]

spankenstein wrote on Wed, 28 April 2004 15:26

I'm well aware of the business of it, I guess I worded it wrong... My intention was whether the reason was truly the music or the money.

i see.....thanks for clarifying.

Quote:

In other words is it where you're going or the getting there that  is more important.

that seems to be symantics to me....

and it hits on my point, tons of bands don't have a clue where they are going, but they want the same destination.

importance of task is for each artist to decide.  getting there is my focus.  i want the art to grow, to become better and better, more focused.  so in my case, getting there is rather important

i also want more people to hear my art and to take something from it.  from that stand point, i have essentially decided to start a business.  "getting there" is very important to me as i feel i have a good message to spread.

but i can't do any of this with out "knowing where i'm going"

one relates to the other.

function over form, or form over function......i want both.

[Fibes]

My mantra to bands is that if you decide to leave the garage you should do everything you can to get people to come hear your art.

It's funny how that can be misconstrued to mean, sellout, dumb down or whatever. The fact is in my burg half the bands don't even flyer or contact the local weekly. One of my best friends has to freaking bug the bands for bios so he can cover a group that is worth seeing. The whole anti-hero thing died long ago in the cred circles. If you think people will like your music and take it out of the garage you owe it to yourself and the people like you to make them aware of it. Word of mouth is a powerful thing in this age, funny thing is it all starts with yours.

[Zoesch]

Fibes wrote on Thu, 29 April 2004 07:28

My mantra to bands is that if you decide to leave the garage you should do everything you can to get people to come hear your art. It's funny how that can be misconstrued to mean, sellout, dumb down or whatever. The fact is in my burg half the bands don't even flyer or contact the local weekly. One of my best friends has to freaking bug the bands for bios so he can cover a group that is worth seeing. The whole anti-hero thing died long ago in the cred circles. If you think people will like your music and take it out of the garage you owe it to yourself and the people like you to make them aware of it. Word of mouth is a powerful thing in this age, funny thing is it all starts with yours.

True...

The problem you have is of public and media perception, all the fanzines and the fans are quite eager to see the next underdog rise so they can shoot them down in flames.

You're not leaving the garage to see if there's someone on the street and then coming back... you are leaving it because the garage is too small for you and you need a bigger venue to express yourself.

Funny, I've never heard anyone say that Frank Black or Bob Mould sold out, so there's a treshold that once reached, makes you immune to criticism (And I love the work from both BTW).

Oh and Fletcher... about Punk Rock's timely death... I still reckon it died the day Crass said "Punk is dead"

[j.hall]

frank black and bob mould remain in the clear cause they have done nothing to draw negative attention to their music.

i still believe you could be a HUGE indie rock band and maintain a lot of cred.  it's all in how you handle yourself.

are you on TRL every other day, or not?

[Fibes]

Frank is da man! I did a tune for the first online compilation at his fan site. We did it in about three hours. It was a blast.

[bloodstone]

Clever music recorded poorly by artists who sing and play badly well.

Examples:

Pavement
Liz Phair's early work
Swell Maps
The Fall
Geraldine Fibbers
The Silver Jews
Pere Ubu
Sebadoh

[lucey]

Indy Rock used to be a band that was about the music and nothing else.  It was a branch of punk, in that sense, with a different sound.

Then it became about the sound and the attitude.  Any band that's either too full of themselves to admit they want to be popular, or too shy/drunk/lazy to care about anything very much, was indy.  Anything low-fi on purpose or by necessity was indy.

With some exceptions ... Indy has become another lame fashion statement full of cliques, trends and an insular, insider aesthetic.

Indy rock, like punk, used to mean something ... now it's a label without a reality.  A soul without a body.



Sub Pop and Touch and Go are hardly Indy labels of note ... Sub Pop invented the thing laer called Grunge and sold it off asap (see:Hype) while Touoch and Go has a haught couture too-cool-for-school attitude about their "sound"  ... it's just GOTTA be low-fi.

It's all so sad.  I went back to Ohio .... but my city it was gone ...




There is no new indy rock that's respectable, anything credible has been around a while.  Now it's just more politics, posing and the economic stylization of creativity ... the very thing the indy and punk kids were not about.

[j.hall]

lucey wrote on Sun, 23 May 2004 04:12

There is no new indy rock that's respectable, anything credible has been around a while.  Now it's just more politics, posing and the economic stylization of creativity ... the very thing the indy and punk kids were not about.

i agreed with you until the quoted paragraph

simply not true......

put a time frame to "been around a while"

5 years? 1 year?

you put a time frame to it, i'll name some creative, respectable indie rock bands that fit in your time frame.

[lucey]

j.hall wrote on Mon, 24 May 2004 09:09

lucey wrote on Sun, 23 May 2004 04:12 There is no new indy rock that's respectable, anything credible has been around a while.  Now it's just more politics, posing and the economic stylization of creativity ... the very thing the indy and punk kids were not about. i agreed with you until the quoted paragraph simply not true...... put a time frame to "been around a while" 5 years? 1 year? you put a time frame to it, i'll name some creative, respectable indie rock bands that fit in your time frame.

Great ... I'd love to know the are out there.

In my town, it's not there in reality ...  the appearance is there, but at root, it's very commercial in nature.

Lot's of ass kissing or dissing, lots of "next big thing" that never happens.  Bad bands are now good, average bands are now great.






So in the last 5 years, what do you like as honorable indy?

[j.hall]

lucey wrote on Tue, 25 May 2004 09:03

So in the last 5 years, what do you like as honorable indy?

oh man, you made it easy on me.

first off.....i think all local scenes are like that.
and i get really sick of the terrible bands that every one says, "they rule"

i think the good musicians say that sarcastically as they are not threatened by the bad band.....then all the kids hear that being said and conform......bada bing, we have a popular band that shouldn't even be playing shows.

anyway......5 years

burning airlines
karate
john vanderslice
pretty girls make graves
mum
the casket lottery
fire theft
kid dakota
icarus line
pernice brothers

trying to list some various styles there.....and i have my specific tastes that i keep listing the same bands all over this forum

man, i keep trying to listen to new bands.....i just don't have the time to go looking for em.

i'm starting a project from san fran (mixing) pretty soon....i think this guy has some cool ideas.

i'll see if he'll let me post some mp3's

[John Ivan]

j.hall wrote on Thu, 22 April 2004 11:37

we went through this every now and then in the recpit version of this forum.  this is a new place, let's discuss it again. let's add a twist though. give me your definition of indie rock, and then list a handful of bands that you think defined it, or started it, or both.

I have never,nor do I now understand what Indi means. I like some of the music that people call indi rock but, ALL of this music is just plain old rock and roll to me. Is every rock band an indi band until they get signed? I don't know. I have no idea what any of this means. But I'm sorta old.

[John Ivan]

Gary Longest wrote on Fri, 23 April 2004 16:28

j.hall wrote on Thu, 22 April 2004 17:53   now we have a bunch of un-informed kids buying over priced "vintage" clothes, and white belts, with bad haircuts, running "our scene". Don't forget the Buckle Shoes! Losuy Pilgrims they are. Quote: i think indie rock can be really heavy (refused) or really mellow (sparkelhorse, codeine) At what point does "indie rock" become "punk"? Quote: but what indie rock is not, is an independent band seeking a major label contract. Amen. You're either making records for love, or making them for money. You can't do both, unless you love money. then your fucked. If your making them for love, you can put them out yourself, or you can be a dildo and wait for a label. Put in some work! Jeez, there are so many lazy kids waiting for record contracts. You have either independent bands, or hopeful- yet- unsigned major label bands. Punk is not a purgatory between unsigned and signed. Anything else is like saying your fasting inbetween your breakfast, lunch, and dinner! Quote: many people in our industry use the term, "i work on indy records as well as major label", this is completely different from what most of here think of as indie rock. I've talked with a few engineer's who were like this. The "underground" is MTV2 to them. They just don't get it.

There are plenty of REALLY REALLY talented folks who make records because they love their music and at the same time want to make as much money as they can. I just don't buy this whole concept about "selling out" In the 90's,I almost got out of this biz because of this attitude. If a record sold a bunch of copies, the folks who made the record were selling out. On top of having to deal with this incredibly uninformed thinking, the level of musicianship went straight to the shitter. This was also a period of time when having chops based in old school soul music was something the kids just thought was NOT COOL!! The rock bands that came out of this time period were for me, A real bummer. Out of tune playing, badly recorded,fucking horrid singing and so on. This music turned into a HUGE commercial success and I don't think people come into this biz hoping they don't make any money. For me, twelve tones on the guitar through a distorted amp with a drummer playing in four is just rock&roll. There is a very very short list of people who have done interesting things with this idea,and that was a long time ago. None of this INDI stuff has anything that hits me as being even remotely new.

That's just my take on this whole "INDI/credibility/sell out/Punk/metal/death metal/emo/?>@#$% It's rock music period. And wether or not something has credibility will change from one person to another. Labeling music in this way has always puzzled me and I'm glad I listen to almost every style of music in the world or I would go to sleep.