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Author Topic: define indie rock...  (Read 12638 times)

Fibes

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Re: define indie rock...
« Reply #30 on: April 26, 2004, 12:32:30 pm »

Fletcher wrote on Sun, 25 April 2004 11:15

Punk Rock ended in 1980... right around the time when it became "cool" to wear CBGB's T-shirts... all that remains is Punque Rock which is a commercial product sold in stores rather than a unique lifestyle lived in small circles.


For the most part yes, although I dug the Candy Snatchers quite a bit, real fear happening at their shows and they definately lived it. Real punk has been squashed by the Punques but it ain't dead, it's just wriggling around on the outskirts with it's head cut off.
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Fibes
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Meriphew

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Re: define indie rock...
« Reply #31 on: April 26, 2004, 01:39:40 pm »

I think the band The Vapors released "New Clear Days" around '81. They're prolly my fav punk'ish (though they are pretty melodic) band aside from The Clash. Sigh.... will there ever be another band as great as The Clash?

natpub

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Re: define indie rock...
« Reply #32 on: April 27, 2004, 01:02:13 am »

maybe indie rock could be defined as music made with the least degree of mook interaction per capita? Laughing
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grock5

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Re: define indie rock...
« Reply #33 on: April 27, 2004, 01:31:52 am »

Fletcher wrote on Sun, 25 April 2004 11:15

Punk Rock ended in 1980... right around the time when it became "cool" to wear CBGB's T-shirts... all that remains is Punque Rock which is a commercial product sold in stores rather than a unique lifestyle lived in small circles.


1980? Crass had not released their best records yet, Discharge was still doing singles, Black Flag hadn't released "damaged" yet, and Minor Threat and Bad Religion didn't even have records out. (where they even together yet?)

Though the mall-purchased "punque" may have destroyed the name, The scene is still available and to many folks the name is just as valid. The interested folks stay interested, and perhaps dive into it's roots, possibly to stay enthusiastic about it for life. The idle folks will move on to the next "hot" thing that they are sold.

Kinda like cigars and motorcycling...
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j.hall

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Re: define indie rock...
« Reply #34 on: April 27, 2004, 01:45:57 pm »

you know....fletcher actually brings up a good point

his generation saw the actual begin of "punk"

my generation saw the continuance, and most likely, the changing of punk.  maybe not it's ideals, but it was packaged differently and sold to a whole new group of kids

all the crap we sling to the younger generation, maybe this is just the new face of indie rock

i truly hope not, but maybe....

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Fibes

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Re: define indie rock...
« Reply #35 on: April 27, 2004, 03:38:19 pm »

Yeah J. The 70s were the time.

The first wave (and some second) of CBGB bands is what i think of when i think of punk. Television, Patti Smith, Jim Carroll, RFTT, Ramones and even Richard Hell (Sorry RL) all formed my foundation of what punk was about. It had a huge impact on me and still does to this day. The later waves haven't stuck with me in the same regard. Maybe it's because i'm getting old or that listening to pissed off people screaming without much to say reminds me of visiting family. Just my .02.
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Fibes
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spankenstein

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Re: define indie rock...
« Reply #36 on: April 28, 2004, 12:37:58 am »

I think the 70's stuff was the foundation but punk, at least to me, is defined by the bands j.hall mentioned. Black Flag, Bad Religion, Minor Threat. 80's were punk as in punk.

Punk has definitely "broke" as far as that goes. I was a huge pop-punk fan forever then it just got so lame. After New Found Glory (who I do like) it's all just been the same. Everything is so slick and produced to perfection that I can't even stand it anymore. The angst is all gone and it's just fashion now, it's like hair metal was a good way to be cool and pick up chicks. A LOT of bands I see seem to give off that vibe. They're clawing to "make it."
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j.hall

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Re: define indie rock...
« Reply #37 on: April 28, 2004, 10:04:33 am »

spankenstein wrote on Tue, 27 April 2004 23:37

 They're clawing to "make it."


that's what i find funny......where are they trying to make it to?

i ask bands that all the time, "where are you trying to get to?"

i haven't had one answer.

"i don't know, famous?"  thats always the answer i get.  

how can you get anywhere if you don't know where "where" is?

most bands haven't a clue what they are doing, or what direction they need to go in.  

marketing starts from day one.  and the first thing is, know your market, and decide where you want to go with it.
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spankenstein

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Re: define indie rock...
« Reply #38 on: April 28, 2004, 10:46:13 am »

j.hall wrote on Wed, 28 April 2004 09:04

spankenstein wrote on Tue, 27 April 2004 23:37

 They're clawing to "make it."


that's what i find funny......where are they trying to make it to?

i ask bands that all the time, "where are you trying to get to?"

i haven't had one answer.

"i don't know, famous?"  thats always the answer i get.  

how can you get anywhere if you don't know where "where" is?

most bands haven't a clue what they are doing, or what direction they need to go in.  

marketing starts from day one.  and the first thing is, know your market, and decide where you want to go with it.



How independent are they at that point? I understand wanting to do something with your music but if it's for the love of it then what's it matter?

It's this point that it becomes a fine line I think. Making music or making business.
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j.hall

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Re: define indie rock...
« Reply #39 on: April 28, 2004, 10:56:17 am »

spankenstein wrote on Wed, 28 April 2004 09:46


It's this point that it becomes a fine line I think. Making music or making business.



that's the thing, even in this giant discussion of what indie rock is and isn't.....making music IS business

you can't remove the business from it.  it's just a matter of what business you are trying to get, maintain, and create.

i have not once met an artist that didn't want at least one other person (outside their band or engineer) to hear the music.

music for the love of music is fine, and i'm sure it exists some where, but i don't ever see it.  for that to TRULY be the case, that "artist" will never leave their home with the intention of performing the music, and never once consider, or want to, record it.  it's simply music that exists out of loving music solely.  as far as i'm concerned, that just doesn't exist in my world.

so the inverse must be true.  music is business.  as soon as you play a gig, record a demo or record, make T-shirts, stickers, buttons, and/or flyers, you've started your business.

what i'm saying is that you have to have some idea of where you want that business to end up.

denying the fact that art is business, IMO, is simply ignoring the entire scope of the process.

this is true for all forms of art.  at least, i whole heartedly believe this to be true, and i have yet to be convinced otherwise.
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Fibes

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Re: define indie rock...
« Reply #40 on: April 28, 2004, 12:10:32 pm »

spankenstein wrote on Wed, 28 April 2004 00:37

I think the 70's stuff was the foundation but punk, at least to me, is defined by the bands j.hall mentioned. Black Flag, Bad Religion, Minor Threat. 80's were punk as in punk.

Punk has definitely "broke" as far as that goes.


I'm not trying to bust your balls but the "california" punk you talk about was in many ways the first wave of commercial punk. Not to downplay their importance but in a nutshell Iggy wouldn't have survived if Bowie hadn't bailed him out. The NYC shit just didn't sell until the Pistols and the Clash began their strokes at album sales and packaging the "movement."

Do you own Marquee Moon, Horses, Raw Power or any of Richard Hell's stuff? Hilly thanks jeebus for that shit...
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Fibes
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grock5

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Re: define indie rock...
« Reply #41 on: April 28, 2004, 01:00:09 pm »

Fibes wrote on Wed, 28 April 2004 12:10

spankenstein wrote on Wed, 28 April 2004 00:37

I think the 70's stuff was the foundation but punk, at least to me, is defined by the bands j.hall mentioned. Black Flag, Bad Religion, Minor Threat. 80's were punk as in punk.

Punk has definitely "broke" as far as that goes.


I'm not trying to bust your balls but the "california" punk you talk about was in many ways the first wave of commercial punk. (snip)




Commercial punk? I don't get it.
Those are the bands along with the Dead Kennedy's, GI, Bad Brains, that really set the situation for a workable DIY community by releasing on small record labels. or their own, as in the case of MT, BR, DK, GI. I don't see how that is in any way commerical. Any mainstream press that they did receive was fairly incidental.

-- Gary
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j.hall

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Re: define indie rock...
« Reply #42 on: April 28, 2004, 01:01:04 pm »

to clarify, i'm talking about mainly about the DC movement and not the cali one

minor threat
dag nasty
government issue
rights of spring
soul side
the list goes on......

outside of DC i can think of
dead kenedys
agent orange
bad religion
black flag

to me, that was the second movement

the cali thing was straight up commercial from the get go, the intent might have been there, i don't know.

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Fibes

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Re: define indie rock...
« Reply #43 on: April 28, 2004, 01:46:26 pm »

j.hall wrote on Wed, 28 April 2004 13:01

to clarify,the cali thing was straight up commercial from the get go, the intent might have been there, i don't know.




I'm glad you see it that way too J.

Slash recs. did a wonderful job picking up where Malcolm Mclaren left off.

Once again, I'm not trying to diminish what the bands were doing, just that they were plugged into the machine. It was an era when we weren't so hip to the workings of it but it was still there.

Camper Van Beethoven were true indy pioneers. Why that band isn't as well loved as REM still bothers me to this day. Maybe it's the sense of humor, the true indy aesthetic or the fact that they all learned how to play their instruments at some point. Is this heresy from a Georgia boy? Maybe.
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Fibes
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jakabo

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Re: define indie rock...
« Reply #44 on: April 28, 2004, 02:16:33 pm »

Just a quick chime in...I finally got around to reading it when my partner loaned it to me somewhat recently.

But topically, this is a good read. "Our band Could be Your Life: Scenes from the American Indie Underground 1981-1991" by Micheal Azzard.

http://www.twbookmark.com/books/35/0316063797/


ken

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