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[Dave Hecht]

andshesbuyingastairway wrote on Wed, 23 May 2007 15:13

okay, then let's talk about this issue from a technical perspective.  tell me from an electrical engineering standpoint why this is nothing more than a mere myth with no validity if that's the way you want to look at it.   just out of curiosity, did the original TG console use PCB?

 This really reads like you're either looking to bust balls, or you're too lazy to research any of this yourself. The various tube vs solid state, discrete vs ic and pc vs point to point have been beaten to death all over the internet. I'd suggest you try google, or the forum's search function.

Dave Hecht

[Dave Hecht]

andshesbuyingastairway wrote on Wed, 23 May 2007 16:48

whence did i suggest things were better because they were PTP and whence did this become confrontational

 Several of your replies have been confrontational. For example "post a picture" after Keith replied to your Chandler question. The guys who post here are giving you the benefit of years of knowledge and experience. The least you can do is accept that help graciously.

Dave Hecht

[Larrchild]

Maybe I can be of help.

I have about 8 different prototype versions of the same tube limiter.

Ranging, in various amounts, from all PTP to some PTP to all boards and ribbons. (just to see)

And I'll be damned if anyone can hear any differences.

So I've put some effort into this question.

[tom eaton]

Post pictures!

t

[J.J. Blair]

ssltech wrote on Tue, 22 May 2007 14:32

Post a picture of a twenty dollar bill. Then send me the bill so I can check its authenticity.

I nominate this for Post of the Year.

[Malcolm Boyce]

J.J. Blair wrote on Thu, 24 May 2007 05:05

ssltech wrote on Tue, 22 May 2007 14:32 Post a picture of a twenty dollar bill. Then send me the bill so I can check its authenticity. I nominate this for Post of the Year.

...and seconded.

[rankus]

LOL and to be doubly sure: can you also post a picture of the picture for confirmation

[Larrchild]

There's a sign on the wall but he wants to be sure
'Cause you know sometimes words have two meanings.

[johnR]

Larrchild wrote on Thu, 24 May 2007 03:53

Maybe I can be of help. I have about 8 different prototype versions of the same tube limiter. Ranging, in various amounts, from all PTP to some PTP to all boards and ribbons. (just to see) And I'll be damned if anyone can hear any differences.

Can you tell us from an electrical engineering point of view why this should be the case?

[Larrchild]

The dialectic material of a pc board (usually glass-epoxy) does not load down any but the highest of impedances.(many megohms) So if we view traces in comparison to wires traveling thru open air,(PTP), until you get to some very high freq's , as Tektronix learned years ago when they tried to etch "capacitors" using traces, it's not much different, electrically.

Further, you can do as many dumb layout mistakes with PTP as PCB's.

[Phuckwit]

Funny thing is my favorite sounding use of some 12ax7's and EL34's in an early 70s Bass head/Guitar head contains two GRP PCB's. Might be more to do with the complete absence of ceramic disc caps in the tone control circuit more than anything to do with
metal string or not metal string.
Anyway wasn't this sposed to be about anything else other than faffing recording equipment in this saloon.  I was 52 on tuesday and so I am much too old and bored
to go round pretending to have hearing like a passing bat. I know what I like you young ruffians, now where's me ovaltine.

[Larrchild]

Use great parts, don't run bad things next to each other, make high current traces fat enough and stop worrying, lol.

Think of PCB as point to point run over by a streamroller and glued to a non conductive plane.=)

Oh and a no-no is brown rings or loose sockets of tubes.
This can all be addressed.

[Andy Peters]

Larrchild wrote on Thu, 24 May 2007 15:21

The dialectic material of a pc board (usually glass-epoxy)

Larry, I'm sure you mean "dielectric," not "dialectic", which is something our Zeppelin-loving troll either groks fully or not at all.

Quote:

does not load down any but the highest of impedances.(many megohms) So if we view traces in comparison to wires traveling thru open air,(PTP), until you get to some very high freq's , as Tektronix learned years ago when they tried to etch "capacitors" using traces, it's not much different, electrically.

Those differences are notable at high frequencies, but in audio?  Nah.

Quote:

Further, you can do as many dumb layout mistakes with PTP as PCB's.

'cept it's easier to fix dumb mistakes with PTP than a trace in an inner layer of a 12-layer PCB.

-a

[J.J. Blair]

Glad I'm not the only one who accidentally says dialectic in here.

[J.J. Blair]

Larrchild wrote on Thu, 24 May 2007 14:20

There's a sign on the wall but he wants to be sure 'Cause you know sometimes words have two meanings.

And there's a whino down the road...