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[sodderboy]

dang!  If only I could post a recording of my first tech phone call, oh, 35 years ago to a ham store trying to get the parts to build a code practice oscillator:
"I need a 22 squiggle-squiggle F mica ca-pacitor."
"Squiggles?  Do you mean micro or pico farads?"
I dunno.  There are two squiggle things in front of an F. . ."
They mustave got those calls all the time.  It was also a time for me when everyone on the phone said, "How can I help you ma'am?".

We set each other straight when I actually went to the store.  The rest is infamy!  Wish they told me about the HV in transmitters. . .  Anyway, it was another 14 years until I walked into a recording studio, realizing that there were levels of achievement in the act of extracting my head from my arse.  Still getting there.

Don't be discouraged stairway!

Mike

[andshesbuyingastairway]

what is the selling point?  are there not inherent electrical differences?  

you can still have a PCB with predominant PTP wiring, check this out

http://www.upscaleaudio.com/primaluna/pro2inside.htm

you made the polarized association between the two, not me

[Andy Peters]

andshesbuyingastairway wrote on Tue, 22 May 2007 21:53

what is the selling point?  are there not inherent electrical differences?   you can still have a PCB with predominant PTP wiring, check this out http://www.upscaleaudio.com/primaluna/pro2inside.htm

You really need to sort out what's a marketing claim ("The number one reason for point-to-point wiring, is that it sounds better . It gives your amplifier a soul ...") and what's reality.

-a

[andshesbuyingastairway]

wasn't necessarily using that link for the text associated with it.  it came up as a first match on a search engine, and it wasn't a guitar amp.  

what's reality is that one of the key elements to analog 'warmth,' which i think we all recognize to a certain extent is distortion.  and having large components via PTP does this.  there are some companies who use slightly larger parts on PC board designs, but it still can't completely match the ability of that involved in PTP.        

[ssltech]

andshesbuyingastairway wrote on Wed, 23 May 2007 05:41

what's reality is that one of the key elements to analog 'warmth,' which i think we all recognize to a certain extent is distortion.  and having large components via PTP does this.

Wow.



Apparently, I need to pay more attention. This guy knows a lot of stuff that I don't.

I've thought about it, and I'm calling "Troll" on this guy.

Firstly the questions are almost TOO bogus and misinformed to be true.

Then in THIS thread he asks if SSLs are point-to-point wired. IN another thread he asks me for the card number for a G-series input stage... implying knowledge which hasn't been given here.

So here's my take. Either this guy knowns nothing and never will, or he knows the answers already, and he'd trying to achieve web-immortality along the lines of the idiot troll who posted about "EQ-ing to control dynamics".

Either way, I'm announcing that I have no respect for him, so make your own minds up and respond accordingly.

The Chandler has PCBs in it, but the front panel components are hand-wired. The careful wording of his posts and his eagerness to subsequently 'trap' people in a definition of "point-to-point" by implying that simple HAND WIRING is enough to fall into his definition is a secondary reinforcement.

I'll ask a moderator to run an IP address check and see if any other forum regulars have posted from the same numbers.

But I suggest that everyone forget about 'helping' him. He's either beyond help, or just baiting for his own amusement.

See ya. -I did my bit.

Keith

[mdbeh]

Keith,

As a long-time lurker, and very occasional poster, I agree with you 100%.  Guys like this reduce the value of these forums more than anything else.

I don't really know how they should be handled.  The individual posts are never quite bad enough to get someone banned.  But the cumulative effect of this sort of crap--someone posting audiophool nonsense over and over again, and getting snippy when challenged--can really dumb things down, and drive away the people who actually know what they're talking about.

So please, everybody, let's just ignore this guy.

[danickstr]

I think this is a good example of marketing kool-aid having gone to the brain and nothing personal or malicious.  He will just keep firing what he knows to get more info from you, since every reply gives him more of your insights.

It is more common, just that most people do not go into forums with  just second-hand info from the sales rep, but if you study enough brochures, then you start to feel informed.

He just doesn't understand the level of experience here to be able to respect it with proper questions.

Todays kids get free downloads and pirate software.  Why should they respect information from established techs?

[Dave Hecht]

Keith,

 I ran the IP address check - no other users there. I think we're dealing with a total beginner, who's read far too many buzz words on the net, and has no idea what's hype and what's reality.

andshesbuyingastairway,

 The main focus here is looking for help, or providing help in maintaining and repairing gear. I don't mind some beginner questions, but chasing down every audiophile myth on the net is better left for the saloon.

Dave Hecht

[ssltech]

Thanks Dave... -I have to say I'm actually surprised... The discussion points are like a 'perfect storm' of myth.  

By the way, I'm really very excited at the moment... I've got a 'test' recording date with the LSO next week... -Like I said, I'm VERY excited about that one!!!

Keith

[Dave Hecht]

Keith,

 Yeah, they do read like an encyclopedia of audio myths. The sales hype and audio myths were bad enough in the old days, when the target market was mainly high end professionals, but now, with so many beginners, home studio and the proliferation of inexpensive gear, the marketing guys are having a field day. Or, to quote an old tv show "you can fool all of the people some of the time, and some of the people all of the time, and those are pretty good odds".

BTW, great news on the "test" recording date. Let me know how it turns out.

Dave Hecht

[andshesbuyingastairway]

okay, then let's talk about this issue from a technical perspective.  tell me from an electrical engineering standpoint why this is nothing more than a mere myth with no validity if that's the way you want to look at it.  

just out of curiosity, did the original TG console use PCB?

[ottor]

andshesbuyingastairway wrote on Thu, 24 May 2007 08:13

just out of curiosity, did the original TG console use PCB?

Yes, they used PCBs. Of course some components were also mounted directly onto switch contacts (e.g. resistors for attenuator switches) and the front panel controls were not PCB mounted so had to be wired to the PCBs, but I certainly wouldn't call them "point-to-point" wired.

[ssltech]

andshesbuyingastairway wrote

tell me from an electrical engineering standpoint why this is nothing more than a mere myth with no validity if that's the way you want to look at it.

Beacuse it's never been measured. We're engineers. That IS how we look at it. This is an engineering forum.

You're getting an oversimplified two line answer because you ask oversimplified two line questions.

[Oh! My Sea Captain!]

Forget point-to-point. Why come to such a wonderful resource as this board for knowledge, when you so obviously distrust the knowledge being presented?

Stop being so confrontational and closed-minded and maybe people will help you see how you're traveling down the wrong path.

Nothing sounds good just because it's PTP, like nothing sounds bad just because it's not. I came to that realization with a little help from my good friend Internet (I think you know him), some electronics books, and an open ear.

[andshesbuyingastairway]

whence did i suggest things were better because they were PTP and whence did this become confrontational