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[Taproot]

Did somebody sneeze in the middle east last night?

Fucking gas jumped up 20 cents overnight.

[Jay Kadis]

You're probably just catching up to the west coast price.

[Taproot]

Jay Kadis wrote on Sat, 19 May 2007 11:16

You're probably just catching up to the west coast price.

You guys are probably at $4/gallon by now, huh? We're at $3.10.

[rankus]

Went up about 20 cents PER LITER here in BC recently.  Pretty much over night.  We are paying about $130.00 per liter now (that's about $5.00 a gallon)  I'm going to shoot my car!

[Careful Collapse]

Horray for bicycles and those fruity little scooters that get great  milage.

[CHANCE]

Just went down 4 cents her in So Cal

[compasspnt]

http://www.revaindia.com/aboutevs.htm

[Tomas Danko]

How much does it cost?

[CHANCE]

On "The discovery channel" last night a topic "future car", they were showing many advances in auto tech. They had an electric car that went from zero to one hundred and back to zero in eight seconds! there was also a new design called "Scateboard" You purchase the scateboard chassis, and whenever you want a new car, you purchase it and it is installed on this scateboard chassis. The chassis contains the hydrogen fuel cells and the complete electro/mechanical systems. Very few moving parts means low maintence. It will be available in everything from an exotic sports body, to a pickup body.

[compasspnt]

Don't know the cost of the Reva as yet, am checking it out.  Understand they are not too much tho. They are available in EU and UK now.  The thing about them is that they are a "now" functioning, readily available automobile, not a "future" car.  Many thousands on the road in India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, etc.

Also, Brasil have totally converted away from petrol.

It can be done.

[Jay Kadis]

Taproot wrote on Sat, 19 May 2007 10:53

Jay Kadis wrote on Sat, 19 May 2007 11:16 You're probably just catching up to the west coast price. You guys are probably at $4/gallon by now, huh? We're at $3.10.

Mostly in the $3.50 range for unleaded in the suburbs.  Some places are well over $4.

[Barry Hufker]

Forgive the repetition -- we need to boycott Exxon/Mobil and Shell.  And you need to ask your friends to do so.  If we can drive down the prices of the largest companies, the smaller will follow.

Barry

[Barry Hufker]

As found on the internet:

[PookyNMR]

We're at $1.18 / litre (which is $4.47 / US gallon).  That's silly since I live a few miles from the refinery in an area of Canada which has just as much oil in the ground as Saudi Arabia.

[PRobb]

The answer is to reduce demand. Drastically. The rate at which our society consumes petroleum is unsustainable. One of the most inconvenient truths of all.

[PookyNMR]

I'm sure that the oil companies are not taking advantage of the long weekend to price gouge.

[Barry Hufker]

They would NEVER do that to us (year after year and all summer long).

Barry

[Tidewater]

A refinery or 10 might do us some good.. nahh..

Question: Terrorist or Environmentalist?

Oh, and then there is the most important thing, but let's stay focused on something else, as per usual.



M

[bushwick]

A interesting story regarding station owners:

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=610122

This is not an isolated case.

[Jay Kadis]

It's pretty clear the refiners, mainly giant multi-national corporations, are the ones making the profits.  Highly suspicious refinery shutdowns choke the supply artificially, meanwhile Exxon makes a $10 billion profit in one quarter.

Sooner or later consumers are just going to have to say NO.  Imagine if we all stayed off the road for one day...

[Barry Hufker]

One day doesn't make any difference.  That's been tried.  The oil companies know if you don't buy today you'll buy tomorrow.  It's only a long, sustained boycott that will do anything.

Boycott Exxon/Mobil and Shell and you'll be doing a lot, especially if you ask your friends to do the same.

Barry

[Jay Kadis]

Barry Hufker wrote on Fri, 25 May 2007 12:39

One day doesn't make any difference.  That's been tried.  The oil companies know if you don't buy today you'll buy tomorrow.  It's only a long, sustained boycott that will do anything. Boycott Exxon/Mobil and Shell and you'll be doing a lot, especially if you ask your friends to do the same. Barry

If no one drove for one day, there would be a reduction in consumption.  I'm not talking about not buying gas for one day, but about driving.  It would at least send a message that we're serious and organized.

The 2005 daily US consumption was about 320,500,000 gallons per day.  (http://www.gravmag.com/oil.html)  At $3/gal retail that's just short of $1 billion.  They would notice that!

[Malcolm Boyce]

Jay Kadis wrote on Fri, 25 May 2007 17:15

If no one drove for one day, there would be a reduction in consumption.  I'm not talking about not buying gas for one day, but about driving.  It would at least send a message that we're serious and organized.

I just had this same conversation with a friend.  These "Don't buy gas on this day" deals are a joke...  Don't DRIVE on this day...  that would seriously get their attention.

Why is it people can't understand that something with an all time high demand has record high prices?  Decrease demand, and something might change, but keep guzzling fuel like we have been and...

[Oh! My Sea Captain!]

Every year here in Philadelphia, our public transportation company (SEPTA) threatens fare hikes and service reductions. If that were to happen, ridership would decline, perpetuating the downward spiral. There's a constant cry for dedicated state level subsidizing, but no one knows where the money would come from.

Now, I understand this wouldn't work everywhere, but I say, tax the living SHIT out of gasoline at the wholesale level. Make those prices sky high. I'll bet that would reduce demand.

So many people I know drive 15 minutes to work every day. Instead of 25 on a bike. Or 15 on a bus. Or a nice walk on a lovely summer day. Laziness is a major factor in why consumption is so great. Even with prices going up lately, I see very little change in driving habits. If gas were $10 a gallon and public transportation were super cheap and expansive, you better believe people would drive less.

You can't just ask people to not drive for a day. Gotta hit 'em where it counts.

[Barry Hufker]

While that plan would certainly have a large effect, if your city is like mine, public transportation doesn't go everywhere I need it to.  It would take a long time to get anywhere because of train, bus changes and waiting (I used to take public buses to high school, which took 90 minutes or more).  I'm not sure the transit system would be prepared to handle that many more people so quickly.

And most importantly, I wouldn't have a means of hauling gear for my remote recording projects.

Barry

[ssltech]

Even not driving for a day is an ineffactive argument. -Not as stupidly fallacial as not buying gas for a day, but it won't work.

-Say the streets are EMPTY. No trucks, no cars, no nuthin.

for one whole day.

So the daily consumption is a HUGE number. Big whoop. Our auunal consumption is still 365 times bigger no matter HOW you look at it.

Then we do another 364 days of driving. The oil companies annual revenue goes down by 1/365th.

...-That's LESS than 0.28%.

They'd sell less oil if we all just inflated our tires correctlty, or walked ONCE to the friggin corner store instead of driving...

Or if ONE PERCENT of the penis-challenged 'three-seat-empty' SUV drivers bought something sensible.

and in the end it's still fallacial in that we STILL use oil, and they'd be left with more to sell to us, we just use it at a slower rate, and they make their money slower... but lay off a few people down the distribution network so that they still stay nice and fat.

No, it doesn't really work very well. We have to essentially diminish our dependance on oil SIGNIFICANTLY and get the dumbasses out of guv'mint...

Wait... On reflection, that last idea was the most unworkable thing I've ever written.

Keith

[PookyNMR]

ssltech wrote on Mon, 04 June 2007 11:37

Or if ONE PERCENT of the penis-challenged 'three-seat-empty' SUV drivers bought something sensible.

Like a Hummer???  

[PRobb]

All this one day stuff is a band aid on an axe wound. How about getting a low mileage vehicle and cutting your gas use 50% PERMANENTLY?

[Jay Kadis]

PRobb wrote on Tue, 05 June 2007 07:36

All this one day stuff is a band aid on an axe wound. How about getting a low mileage vehicle and cutting your gas use 50% PERMANENTLY?

I think you mean a HIGH mileage vehicle?  Of course one day won't change the picture.  But a radical restructuring of our transportation systems won't happen overnight, either.  In the mean time, what WOULD send the message we're fed up?

My Accord gets 30 mpg with a conventional 4 cylinder engine.  I'm telecommuting one day a week.  Now if I could get the wife to turn off the lights...

[PRobb]

Oops- of course I meant high mileage.

[Oh! My Sea Captain!]

Let us not forget that Americas total oil consumption dwarfs just the stuff we put in vehicles...

SUVs are big, stupid, middle fingers pointed directly at the smiling head of sensible consumption, but so are incandescent light bulbs.

Full disclosure: I use incandescent bulbs in my studio. The Compact Fluorescents still hum like they don't know the words...

I also own a large format console....

(stands if front of smiling head of sensible consumption)

[Jay Kadis]

The trick for incandescent lights is to price them like the vacuum tube they are.  That way those who need them can still get them.  NOS GE 300 W mogul base rocks.

And everyone else buys CF 'cause they're cheaper in every way.

Our studio and control room were designed in the mid-eighties and have track flood lighting with bank switching on/off.  Using 65 watt spots x ~24  comes to 1560 watts and that's more than the rest of the studio.  The newer studios have flourescent fixtures that don't hum, but neither do they dim.  The small concert hall uses about 20 dimmable 50W spots, fluorescent work lights and 4 theatrical spots we won't count.  Not exactly what you'd call efficient.

Has anyone used white LED lighting?  Does it make you look like a cadaver?  Seems like it would be the clear winner for energy use and dimming applications.

[CHANCE]

Jay Kadis wrote on Wed, 06 June 2007 19:25

The trick for incandescent lights is to price them like the vacuum tube they are.  That way those who need them can still get them.  NOS GE 300 W mogul base rocks. And everyone else buys CF 'cause they're cheaper in every way. Our studio and control room were designed in the mid-eighties and have track flood lighting with bank switching on/off.  Using 65 watt spots x ~24  comes to 1560 watts and that's more than the rest of the studio.  The newer studios have flourescent fixtures that don't hum, but neither do they dim.  The small concert hall uses about 20 dimmable 50W spots, fluorescent work lights and 4 theatrical spots we won't count.  Not exactly what you'd call efficient. Has anyone used white LED lighting?  Does it make you look like a cadaver?  Seems like it would be the clear winner for energy use and dimming applications.

I've been using 12v (with noise free dimmers) track lighting in my CR, TR, and several rooms in my house. True, the stepdown transformer might use some extra current, but the lights are bright, very little heat, and have reduced electrical consumption overall.

[Les Ismore]

On the topic of alternative fuel, I would highly recomend a movie that is out called "who killed the electric car?"
We've had the technology for about 12 years or so now. Proven, reliable electric transportation.
It was destroyed by Bush and the oil and car companies.

This movie was a huge eye opener for me.