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Author Topic: Studio Monitors for under a grand - suggestions?  (Read 9431 times)

Erasehead

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Studio Monitors for under a grand - suggestions?
« on: May 08, 2007, 11:33:45 PM »

I just got through reading the recent monitor thread but needed to know more...

Up untill recently I've done my mixing in a professional studio, so I didn't feel the need to invest in better monitors for my home set-up.

Now, I need to occasionally mixdown at home and am looking to turn a small investment into an adequate set of monitors.

I've only researched the obvious choices for under a grand - Event20/20, Mackie, M-Audio, Tannoy, etc... - but I remain skeptical and need to do more research.

Budget: $999
Considerations: Some projects they will be used for include a great deal of sub bass activity (Drum and Bass genre) while others are more acoustic in nature (drums, guitar, vocals, etc..).
Environment: A small, cluttered, studio for now. Yea, I know...

Questions:
Should I consider getting a sub?
Passive plus an amp or powered - is there a best way to go here?
8" pair or 6" pair plus a sub?
Does it really matter with this small a budget?

I haven't posted in a while but could use some shared wisdom and there seems to be a lot of that around here from what I recall.
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compasspnt

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Re: Studio Monitors for under a grand - suggestions?
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2007, 12:42:31 AM »

If you're going for Events, in your budget, try the SP6's rather than 20/20's.
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Vertigo

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Re: Studio Monitors for under a grand - suggestions?
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2007, 02:24:25 PM »

Speaking of Events, I've been using the TR8XL's for about two years now. I actually preferred them to my 20/20's, which I got rid of some time ago. Very "unhyped" and "non-flattering" - you've got to push your mixes to get them to rock, which translates well outside of the control room. Their frequency balance is fairly flat and I can always get a sense of what's going on with my reverbs and delays. I'll probably upgrade someday, but there's no rush. I'm pretty happy with them. When I do upgrade I definitely plan on auditioning the ASP6's.

Unless you've got the extra money and time to invest in finding the "right" power amp, I'd suggest going with active monitors. The power amps in actives are already tuned to the monitor, which eliminates the guesswork and gives you fairly optimal performance.

I'd skip the sub for your mains, at least until you learn them (along with your room). Instead go buy a set of bookshelves with a sub, or even computer speakers or a "superbass" type boom-box and use this as a secondary reference for your mixes. I have a $100 set of Klipsch PC speakers that I use for this, which I love. They sound like NS10's with a subwoofer, and they do a wonderful job of helping me get my low end tight.

To be honest, I think that knowing your monitors (and your room) is far more important than the quality of the monitors themselves. You've got to train your ear and your "perspective" by listening to as much music as you can through them, and use references often while mixing. The more you get to know them the better your mixes will translate.

-Lance
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compasspnt

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Re: Studio Monitors for under a grand - suggestions?
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2007, 08:29:11 PM »

Lance, since you're "used to" 8" woofers already, you might prefer the SP8's...they were just outside of the stated budget here.

If using the Events, I like to track with the 8's and mix with the 6's.
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Rod Affleck

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Re: Studio Monitors for under a grand - suggestions?
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2007, 10:59:25 AM »

Has anybody tried the bottom of the line Adam monitors? A7 I think? How do they hold up?
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Rod Affleck

Tomas Danko

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Re: Studio Monitors for under a grand - suggestions?
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2007, 11:09:13 AM »

evil robot wrote on Thu, 10 May 2007 15:59

Has anybody tried the bottom of the line Adam monitors? A7 I think? How do they hold up?


If you want low end thump, punch and loud levels look elsewhere. They really can't play very loud, and they sound quite anemic to me.

Other than that, they're decent. I'd probably look for some recent Event's, KRK or such. Then again, you choose monitors pretty much like you choose women (or men), so in the end it's really about what you fancy yourself.
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rankus

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Re: Studio Monitors for under a grand - suggestions?
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2007, 04:27:30 PM »



I'm digging my KRK V6's ... but as mentioned above, monitors are a very personal thing and differ from one person to the next as to what is required.  

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jonathan jetter

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Re: Studio Monitors for under a grand - suggestions?
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2007, 12:25:46 AM »

i lived with Event 20/20's for 2 years.  i got to know them disturbingly well...but man are those some wacky speakers.

picked up a pair of Dynaudio BM5a's a couple weeks ago.  still getting to know them but i do like them very much so far.

jon
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Vertigo

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Re: Studio Monitors for under a grand - suggestions?
« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2007, 01:54:46 PM »

Quote:

Lance, since you're "used to" 8" woofers already, you might prefer the SP8's...


Cool - thanks! Is there something you like better about the 6's for mixing, or is it just a personal preference kind of thing?

I'll probably still keep the TR8's around for a while after I upgrade, so I have an extra reference on speakers I "know".

Quote:

I'm digging my KRK V6's


LOVE the KRK's, but there's no way I could tolerate those hideous green cones in my control room. Blech... Like a big pair of evil eyes staring you down across the console...

-Lance
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compasspnt

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Re: Studio Monitors for under a grand - suggestions?
« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2007, 02:16:31 PM »

Hey Lance,

I usually like to mix on smaller speakers.  The 8's, in almost any brand, always seem a little big to me for mixing, for some reason.  But for tracking, they really help get the level and bass up for the band to hear.

I also use my Lucas full range 4.5 " speakers a lot during mixdown...but they are useless in tracking.
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rankus

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Re: Studio Monitors for under a grand - suggestions?
« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2007, 02:49:03 PM »

compasspnt wrote on Fri, 11 May 2007 11:16

Hey Lance,

I usually like to mix on smaller speakers.  The 8's, in almost any brand, always seem a little big to me for mixing, for some reason.  But for tracking, they really help get the level and bass up for the band to hear.




My theory on this is that the 8" woofers aren't great at re-producing the upper midrange so there may be a dip or a hole  between the upper end of the woofer and the tweeter's low end...

I have tried a few 8" systems and always prefer 6" ... I always feel like something is "missing" on the 8" systems...

But my ears are nowhere near as developed as some around here... so take my opinions with a grain of salt.

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Asagaai

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Re: Studio Monitors for under a grand - suggestions?
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2007, 12:02:00 PM »

rankus wrote on Fri, 11 May 2007 19:49

compasspnt wrote on Fri, 11 May 2007 11:16

Hey Lance,

I usually like to mix on smaller speakers.  The 8's, in almost any brand, always seem a little big to me for mixing, for some reason.  But for tracking, they really help get the level and bass up for the band to hear.




My theory on this is that the 8" woofers aren't great at re-producing the upper midrange so there may be a dip or a hole  between the upper end of the woofer and the tweeter's low end...

I have tried a few 8" systems and always prefer 6" ... I always feel like something is "missing" on the 8" systems...





Could this be to do with having the monitors near to your mix position-Ie on corners of your console-the Event ASP8 are mid range monitors-smaller monitors would work better close up-I have then about 6 feet from mix position and I seem to be in a sweet spot?  I also find they need a bit of juice-I struggle to mix at very low levels-perhaps the size of the cones and low frequency response also needs the juice?

GJ
Newcastle/OZ

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organica

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Re: Studio Monitors for under a grand - suggestions?
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2007, 01:00:24 AM »

I hope you found your monitors .........  lots of ways you might choose to go .

A   used set of NS10M's and add  cheap sub / or not  is yet another idea .
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Dave Martin

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Re: Studio Monitors for under a grand - suggestions?
« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2007, 12:57:53 PM »

groundhog day wrote on Sat, 19 May 2007 00:00



A   used set of NS10M's and add  cheap sub / or not  is yet another idea .


Personally, if you only have one set of speakers, I think that  NS10's are a terrible idea. I have three sets of speakers in my control room, and NONE of them are NS-10's. I think there may be a pair up in the attic for those who swear by them, but don't try to use them as your only mix speaker, either with or without a sub.
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hargerst

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Re: Studio Monitors for under a grand - suggestions?
« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2007, 04:27:16 PM »

Unless you're Bob Clearmountain






(and you really believe him).
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Harvey "Is that the right note?" Gerst
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Dave Martin

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Re: Studio Monitors for under a grand - suggestions?
« Reply #15 on: May 20, 2007, 09:32:43 PM »

hargerst wrote on Sun, 20 May 2007 15:27

Unless you're Bob Clearmountain






(and you really believe him).


Very Happy
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organica

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Re: Studio Monitors for under a grand - suggestions?
« Reply #16 on: May 20, 2007, 09:44:45 PM »

or CLA I guess ....
http://mixonline.com/mag/audio_chris_lordalge/index3.html

I'm only speaking from my experience  ( but ? ). I have one room with NS10M's only which could get me though forever IMO .

In another room we have  5 Genelec 1031a's  , 1 Genelec 7070a active subwoofer , 2 Mackie HR824's  with some Infinity Beta 20's  & 2 Pioneer CS-R590 3-way speakers  not  far away .

I personally  don't care to mix with the 824's  . We refer to them as our "client monitors" . They sound "rilly perty "  !

Every monitor mentioned will  work ...... just  get to know them .
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Dave Martin

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Re: Studio Monitors for under a grand - suggestions?
« Reply #17 on: May 20, 2007, 10:32:20 PM »

groundhog day wrote on Sun, 20 May 2007 20:44

or CLA I guess ....
http://mixonline.com/mag/audio_chris_lordalge/index3.html

I'm only speaking from my experience  ( but ? ). I have one room with NS10M's only which could get me though forever IMO .


CLA doesn't only use NS10's - according to your link, "I also have my little Sony blaster. It's rack-mounted, and that's the comparison. My little brother Tommy turned me on to it, and every client who comes in here wants to hear their mixes on it. If it doesn't sound good through 2-inch speakers on your little boom box, what's the point? It's got to sound big on a small speaker. You are trying to make something sound larger than life on the smallest medium possible."


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organica

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Re: Studio Monitors for under a grand - suggestions?
« Reply #18 on: May 21, 2007, 10:08:39 AM »

please .....

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Dave Martin

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Re: Studio Monitors for under a grand - suggestions?
« Reply #19 on: May 21, 2007, 12:56:21 PM »

groundhog day wrote on Mon, 21 May 2007 09:08

please .....



I've used Auratones for that purpose here, though I much prefer my Radio Shack Minimus 7's. They're worthless for actually 'mixing', but I like to check my contemporary mixes on them to see how everything lays....
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hargerst

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Re: Studio Monitors for under a grand - suggestions?
« Reply #20 on: May 21, 2007, 01:12:48 PM »

The new little Avantone monitors kick some serious butt too.
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Harvey "Is that the right note?" Gerst
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Andy Simpson

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Re: Studio Monitors for under a grand - suggestions?
« Reply #21 on: May 22, 2007, 05:54:23 AM »

Here's a suggestion you won't hear very often and that absolutely won't resonate here at all.

Please listen carefully, I will try to be concise.

Try to find a pair of used mackie srm450's, but only the older ones, with the 'italian' drivers (built up until '04 I think).

These speakers are very very clean and have headroom like nothing else (for that money).

In the mid or far field they are fine and even cope well with reflective rooms since the horns are well dispersed.

You will hear all kinds of distortion you never knew about on any near-field 'tweeter speakers'.

Infact, at first you will claim that they are horribly nasty & distorted.

You will be disappointed with all your favourite recordings.

This first phase will last a short but troublesome time.

Eventually, you will, in absolute desperation & dejection, pick up an old Nat King Cole or Patsy Cline or Buddy Holly CD and you will crank the master to listen.

Then, and only then, will you finally realise the truth.

These speakers are not distorted.

Here's how they will change your life:

They will make you love ribbon mics.
They will make you hate compression.
They will make you hate limiting.
They will make you suspect that tape is a pretty awful resolution losing device.
They will make you hear the meaning of the word 'resolution'.
They will make you hear very small equalisation adjustments.
They will make you prefer not to equalise.
They will make you hate plug-ins.
They will make you back off at least 6dB from every part of your signal chain.

You will hear resonances in condenser mics on esses and string sections and drum overheads and realise that this does not constitute 'detail'.

They will make you consider the dynamic range of the sound source you are recording.

They will make you understand that gain & gain structure is the root of 'sounding big'.

If you compress and limit and distort, you will be punished with small dirty sounds.

If you use nice mics, you will be rewarded with big, rich, detailed, alive recordings which make you smile.

Your mixes will translate to all kinds of speaker systems, including large-scale PA systems, car stereos, boom boxes & other  places.

The only downside of these speakers is self-noise, which is somewhat higher than average (and they sound most alive with the gain at unity) but with headroom like this noise-floor is no issue.
(Oh, and also, the other downside is that you will hear distortion in almost all the classic albums you can think of).

Don't believe me? Find a pair and listen. Please.

I think you could probably pick up a pair on ebay for $999....

Andy
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compasspnt

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Re: Studio Monitors for under a grand - suggestions?
« Reply #22 on: May 22, 2007, 11:02:42 AM »

Andy,

I don't know those monitors, but the rest of the information you posted (the resultant likes/dislikes, and downstream methodology) is VERY DANGEROUS stuff, and is probably out of the purview of most readers here.

I suggest people go on back to "happily" doing what they do, and leave the simplicity to us.
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Tomas Danko

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Re: Studio Monitors for under a grand - suggestions?
« Reply #23 on: May 22, 2007, 11:11:11 AM »

compasspnt wrote on Tue, 22 May 2007 16:02

Andy,

I don't know those monitors, but the rest of the information you posted (the resultant likes/dislikes, and downstream methodology) is VERY DANGEROUS stuff, and is probably out of the purview of most readers here.

I suggest people go on back to "happily" doing what they do, and leave the simplicity to us.



I've been in a huge hall once with lots of different PA systems, up to very expensive high end units. We had all day to hook stuff up, listen and compare. It was a very quiet and calm environment with lots of curtains and things to tweak the acoustics.

The 450s actually surprised us. But  compared to the best ones, it was a bit colder and sterile, flatter in dynamics (things didn't leap out so to speak), the top end was not as pure as the most expensive systems and (this was the biggest caveat to me) it had quite a midrange dip/hole. Still, for PA monitors they are (yes, the old ones) very competent and surprisingly affordable.

I wouldn't use them in my studio, however.
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Andy Simpson

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Re: Studio Monitors for under a grand - suggestions?
« Reply #24 on: June 06, 2007, 07:45:58 AM »

Tomas Danko wrote on Tue, 22 May 2007 16:11

compasspnt wrote on Tue, 22 May 2007 16:02

Andy,

I don't know those monitors, but the rest of the information you posted (the resultant likes/dislikes, and downstream methodology) is VERY DANGEROUS stuff, and is probably out of the purview of most readers here.

I suggest people go on back to "happily" doing what they do, and leave the simplicity to us.



I've been in a huge hall once with lots of different PA systems, up to very expensive high end units. We had all day to hook stuff up, listen and compare. It was a very quiet and calm environment with lots of curtains and things to tweak the acoustics.

The 450s actually surprised us. But  compared to the best ones, it was a bit colder and sterile, flatter in dynamics (things didn't leap out so to speak), the top end was not as pure as the most expensive systems and (this was the biggest caveat to me) it had quite a midrange dip/hole. Still, for PA monitors they are (yes, the old ones) very competent and surprisingly affordable.

I wouldn't use them in my studio, however.


I never said they were any kind of klipschorn!

Anyway, they are _way_ too small for any kind of hall but nice in a smallish studio - BUT you have to run them at (at least) unity gain, otherwise the dynamics & life of the speaker is very (very) poor.
This can be heard easily using any kind of antenuation to compensate for the various levels of gain on the back.

Also, in my experience the speaker sounds considerably less alive when the parallel 'through' xlr connectors are also in use (once upon a time I had mine patched into a headphone amp after the speakers and I was wondering what the hell had happened to the life of my recording. On a wild guess I unplugged the through cables and the life miraculously returned).

Andy
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craig boychuk

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Re: Studio Monitors for under a grand - suggestions?
« Reply #25 on: June 18, 2007, 10:53:16 PM »

I recently picked up a pair of Yamaha HS80's and am quite pleased. They can be had for around $850 a pair, I believe.

The frequency response adjustments are particularly useful, IMO.
I like that the HF shelf adjustment is at 2khz as opposed to, say, 10khz on the 824's. They have a mid adjustment too, which can be handy if the mids are too forward for you.

As someone who started out with NS-10s and has since used many other types of monitors, to me the HS80s sound really familiar and comfortable, but with the extended frequency response I always wanted from the ns10s.

No matter what you read - here or elsewhere - it's very important for you to audition a bunch of speakers before settling on a pair. If you can, see if you can take home a few contenders, do a quick mix on each of them, and evaluate which pair makes your stuff translate better. You won't really know how you like them until you try working with them. Personally, speakers that I really enjoy for recreational listening don't work so well for me when I'm mixing. I learned this the hard way,  ha ha!  

As with pretty much everything in audio, the monitors you use are  a personal preference sort of thing...YMMV.

-craig

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