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Author Topic: Basement Renovation....  (Read 21417 times)

j.hall

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Re: Basement Renovation....
« Reply #45 on: June 28, 2004, 03:06:57 pm »

i laid out the entire basement in CAD

B-rad worked of "to scale" plans i sent him via CAD and PDF

once the design was done, i have not updated any of my CAD files

however.....attached is a pdf of just the "mix" room in it's un-altered state

the only change that would afect plan view is the addition of the machine room wall about 4 to 5 feet back from the front wall

in the pdf, down is north, up is south.....

the south doorway leads to the hallway.
ceiling height of raw joyce to floor (floor is not level, it slopes to the drains in other rooms) is 7'-8" or something like that

B-rad can fill in all the details after you look at this pdf

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Re: Basement Renovation....
« Reply #46 on: June 28, 2004, 04:22:55 pm »

Thanks jhall,

I did my design in CATIA 3-D and even did the wiring in 3-D.
My basic control room is "nearly" identical to yours except where I made a mixer nook. The Floor plan is hard to read but it gives you the idea. I have a sloping floor too, except it sloped diagonally and messed me up.   http://mypeoplepc.com/members/atomictoyz/themusicroom/id9.ht ml

I was wondering if moving the couch to the opposite end and putting mixer where the couch sits now would be better to get the back wall farther from the monitors. That means tearing out the amp isolation cabinet and getting rid of the wall unit with all my spare nearfields and duplicators.

Peace,
Dennis
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bblackwood

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Re: Basement Renovation....
« Reply #47 on: June 30, 2004, 10:04:16 am »

Dennis wrote on Mon, 28 June 2004 13:21

Length, Width, ceiling height for starters.

Those were all fixed dimensions, other than length, which was modified for a machine room. Space was at a premium, and though it a smallish space, I have treated rooms this size before with very good results...

Quote:

Are walls parallel? If they are what was the workaround.

Yes, they are parallel. Basically, with a room of this size, you have to basically add bass trapping on as many surfaces as possible, and the room modes are often close together and at somewhat higher (more problematic) frequencies due to the dimensions. So we built diaphragmatic absorbers into the walls all the way around the room and are adding hinged, randomized diffuser/absorbers that will mount at an angle on the walls on either side of the mix positions, insuring 1st reflections are simply directed to the rear of the room. IME, simply deadening the front of the room to tame first reflections makes the room 'too dead' - by steering that energy to the back of the room, you allow the room to sound natural but don't compromise imaging in the mix position.

We're also adding an absorptive cloud above the mix position to control ceiling reflections. Some added absorption may be necessary after he gets everything in the room, but my basic formula is:
1] Trap the bass. get it a smooth as possible on the bottom. doesn't have to be perfect, the engineer will learn the room, but he needs to hear it fairly well...
2] Steer 1st reflections to the rear of the room. I don't want the room 'dead', but simply want to make sure the engineer can hear the spatial cues accurately.
3] Absorb anything that sticks out. obviously, a hard flat surface (ceiling) just above the desk will cause issues, so let's insure those go away. Ceiling is too low to also angle this piece, so it will be purely absorptive. This is OK, most speaker don't have very good vertical off-axis response - not much energy is lost and what is absorbed is fairly inaccurate anyway.

Hope this clarifies a bit...
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Brad Blackwood
euphonic masters

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Re: Basement Renovation....
« Reply #48 on: June 30, 2004, 01:15:59 pm »

Thanks Brad,

I think I get it. I think I have to lose(relocate) my tall rolling rack and get the door behind the mix position to absorb more bottom end. Because the door and the joist above it prevents me from simply putting a bass trap there I have to turn the door into a bass and corner trap both. Darn that going to be funky. My pink elephant has me cornered! Ive beeb beating around the bush on the door problem.

Thanks again,


Peace,
Dennis
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Bo

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Re: Basement Renovation....
« Reply #49 on: July 01, 2004, 05:41:52 pm »

looks great j.


by the way, long time, no chat.  my fault as usual.
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"knifing prostitots - one at a time"

j.hall

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Re: Basement Renovation....
« Reply #50 on: July 06, 2004, 03:49:53 pm »

call me anytime man....

all right, i've been setting dealines for months now

but this thing is coming to a close here

i'm going to officially say, two weeks......

i'll be listening to familiar program and getting a feel for the new room

i will say this, i feel pretty good about being the basement considering we've been getting POUNDED with rain for about 3 weeks here (not flooding, but it rains hard about every other day) and i haven't had a drop of water down there

so....

i'll snap a few pics tonight or tomorrow before the carpet goes in (mix position will have laminent flooring for my chair to roll on)

massive cleaning of the other basement areas will be required before gear moves in.
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j.hall

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Re: Basement Renovation....
« Reply #51 on: July 14, 2004, 06:44:32 pm »

difussors have been fabric wrapped

everything is done BUT

no glass, diffusors not hung (waiting for carpet install....which just got done today), cloud above mix position

pics of room cleaned up and prepped for carpet

Back Wall

Front Wall
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jthoen

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Re: Basement Renovation....
« Reply #52 on: July 21, 2004, 11:23:25 pm »

First off I would like to applaud you J.  I believe you are totally making the right decision, ie pro tools and this room.  It looks sweet and im sure with brad behind you its going to sound great, making your mixes that much better!  

Anyway I had a few quick questions. 1) Post some more photos J. Hall.  the people are waiting to see what your new kick ass room will look like and sound like.  2) post some more photos! 3) how does it sound?  Im really hoping its good! 4) how loud is it else where in the house?  I live in an apt. currently and do all my mixing in it.  How loud it is to everyone else is important to me, granted it is your house and you might not have to worry about that as much I do but im sure your wife and kid will mind if it is to loud.  5) related to 3, how do the diffuser and cloud work, they look great from what I have seen they seem pretty easy to make.  6)maybe more of a brad question how do diaphragmatic absorbers work?  From what I can find they seem like real traps old design with a board resonating with the low end a air gap then 703/705 type material all air seal.  Is this basically right?  Would love to hear more.  7) last one, what beer you been drinking, sam smith again?  Here it has been summit epa, bells oberon and anchor summer!

thats should be it for now, I really am looking forward to seeing and hearing some new mp3's of your mixes.  Keep up the great work
joe
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j.hall

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Re: Basement Renovation....
« Reply #53 on: July 22, 2004, 10:45:16 am »

jthoen wrote on Wed, 21 July 2004 22:23

First off I would like to applaud you J.  I believe you are totally making the right decision, ie pro tools and this room.  It looks sweet and im sure with brad behind you its going to sound great, making your mixes that much better!  



thanks for the kind words.....i just got back from Seattle last night, and was welcomed by a bunch of bills for various studio stuff i've needed to buy.  needless to say, i went to bed questioning if i should have done this.

i still think it is the right thing to do.....

Quote:


An1) Post some more photos J. Hall.  the people are waiting to see what your new kick ass room will look like and sound like.  2) post some more photos!



ok, ok.....i've been out of town

the console is sitting on the floor in the corner of the room right now....carpet is in, laminent flooring is in.

we have to hang the diffusors, build the cloud, and hang it.  then it's done

some touch up paint as well.

Quote:


3) how does it sound?  Im really hoping its good!



don't know yet.....and trust me i want to know

Quote
4) how loud is it else where in the house?  I live in an apt. currently and do all my mixing in it.  How loud it is to everyone else is important to me, granted it is your house and you might not have to worry about that as much I do but im sure your wife and kid will mind if it is to loud.  
[/quoted]

well.....i don't know that just yet either

but my band used to practice down there before the renovation (look at picture number 1 in the old recpit for details)
no acoustic treatments at all, and there was only a drop ceiling

my band is REALLY loud......we would shake the enitre first floor of the house, my wife could escape by going up to the bedrooms on the second floor, she said it wasn't bad at all up there and in the back bedroom it was pretty much non-existent.

mixing won't be nearly as loud and i put up two layers of gyp. on the ceiling with R-19 behind it (R-19 will only give me about 3dB of reduction......i did it cause it was cheap and easy and figured it was the right way to do it.

the first level of my house is all hardwood floors (built in 1947) all wood construction.  so basically, my entire first floor acts as a giant diaphram no matter what i do to the ceiling in the basement.

we'll see what happens

the only real issue is mxing late at night after my son goes to bed....shouldn't be a problem.

Quote:


5) related to 3, how do the diffuser and cloud work, they look great from what I have seen they seem pretty easy to make.  



this is simple.....the diffusors are not unique, but are a "randomly fine tuned" so to speak

instead of using a solid piece of plywood and just reflecting sound to the back wall, we used pegboard.  basically, the size of the hole dictates what frequencies will be absorded by it. (703 is directly behind the pegboard, the whole thing is wrapped in acoustically transperant fabric for looks only)

from there, B-rad had me drill, again randomly, different size holes (i used hole saws and a drill) on each panel. largest hole i cut was 2 1/4" i believe

the idea is to absorb random frequencies and to reflect random....

Quote:


7) last one, what beer you been drinking, sam smith again?  Here it has been summit epa, bells oberon and anchor summer!



i drank a lot of pacific NW beer while in seattle.  lots of ales.  i had a few really nice stouts as well

at home, i've been so busy in the studio and getting things done i haven't had much time to try new beers

boddington's has been a staple

during the "harder" construction phase of the build out (seems like a year ago) we were drinking a lot of new castle.

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j.hall

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Re: Basement Renovation....
« Reply #54 on: July 23, 2004, 09:43:47 am »

two more photos by request

these just show the carpet and flooring

doors are off the hinges because they don't fit right now....we need to plane them down a bit since the carpet was added.

we will be finishing the build out phase on saturday (tomorrow).

Front Wall

Back Wall
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Re: Basement Renovation....
« Reply #55 on: July 23, 2004, 12:21:06 pm »

You were in Seattle.... Business or Pleasure... We could have maybe gotten together with archtop or something. Heckled some bands or protested something Smile


Peace,
Dennis
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j.hall

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Re: Basement Renovation....
« Reply #56 on: July 23, 2004, 03:49:40 pm »

straight up pleasure.  only "business" i did was enjoying the hell out of the paul allen's massive wad of cash known as the EMP and Sci-fi museum.

my wife added seattle to our very short list of cities she wants to live in

next time i head out there, i'll be sure to let you know
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archtop

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Re: Basement Renovation....
« Reply #57 on: July 24, 2004, 03:50:34 pm »

Yes by all means holler next time next time your in Seattle.


Hey Dennis I think I got your band "Submission" tonight, you should come on down.

I'll be the guy asking the bass player to turn down  Smile
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Richard Williams

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Re: Basement Renovation....
« Reply #58 on: July 26, 2004, 10:50:35 am »

archtop wrote on Sat, 24 July 2004 12:50

Yes by all means holler next time next time your in Seattle.


Hey Dennis I think I got your band "Submission" tonight, you should come on down.

I'll be the guy asking the bass player to turn down  Smile


You mean up? Smile

Dave called me late Saturday afternoon and invited me. Im sorry I missed it again. Just too tired to go. I  on some new ADHD meds and Im getting sleepiness dips towards the end of the day. My wife caught me napping on the studio couch with her new Shih Tzu puppy.

Dave says your the best live guy in the Seattle metro area!


jhall,
EMP is great, I think the SCi fi place will be a place to take my kids, EMP wasn't interesting to them for the most part. Seattle is a nice place to visit, so I live in the burbs to keep it that way. Tacoma has a nice Glass exhibit and a new zoo exhibit.  

Peace,
Dennis
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j.hall

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Re: Basement Renovation....
« Reply #59 on: July 26, 2004, 11:07:19 am »

back on topic......

the studio build out is complete, sans door hardware on the machine room door and putting the HVAC diffusors back in.

all but one room in the eintire basement has been "de-sheet rock dusted" and i'm pretty much ready to move in.

as soon as i get the ladder and a few other things out of there, i'll snap some final pics and post em up.
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