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Author Topic: IMP 11 OFFICIAL discussion thread  (Read 16860 times)

jdier

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Re: IMP 11 OFFICIAL discussion thread
« Reply #30 on: April 24, 2007, 09:44:31 am »

few thoughts on some of the first mixes I have listened to:

jhall - I really wish I could get my head around how you EQ and compress the vocals to get them to sit so well in the mix without being loud.  I am not a huge fan of the thick verb, but the voice sounds is killer.  The Snare is also really well EQ'ed, never hard to hear, never walking on anything else or over powering.  (would you share your EQ curve applied on voice and snare?) With the guitars, I am loving the thick sound you get on them.  very nice.  Almost like you called the guy back in to double the part.  Of the 4-5 mixes I have listened to, yours has my favorite bass sound so far.  Very natural, full and musical.  If it were my song I would beg you to back off the verbs, but that is all to taste, and I think the mix is really nice.

Rankus - Initial impressions are that I really like the band sound a lot.  I am not liking the lead vocal.  The same things that I did not like about mine, I also do not like about yours.  It seems like it has to be too loud to cut where j's sits so nice without the need for excessive volume.  Drums sound great and the kick is especially pleasing to my ears.  I also like your choice to keep the backup vocals closer to center.  Sounds nice and natural to me.

Boedeo - Another vocal EQ that I like.  Much like j's and very UNLIKE mine, it sits well without a lot of volume.  I do not like the snare eq, seems to compete with the vocals and guitars.  A bit too dark, not enough actual snare sound or crack.  You seem to have a lot of sounds in that same eq range that you have the snare and that tends to tire my ears out.  The kick and bass seem to occupy the same space sometimes and the bass guitar loses out and get's lost or sounds muddy.  Really like that lead vocal sound though (would you share your eq curve?)

chrisj - My favorite part is the guitar sound right after the first verse... sticks out over all the other mixes as the best sound and most ear catching.  Very well done.  I also like your choices on effects.  Very tasteful but not too stripped down.  However, the intro is muddy and distracting.  The lead vocal I feel lacks body and warmth.  Sounds too much like a guy sitting alone in a room (perhaps by design.)  On the kit I do not like the snare sound, it sticks out too much for me... too loud, sounds like it's own instrument, not like part of a drum kit.  Also, the kick get's lost for me.  Your mix sounds like you sectioned the song off into 5 or 6 different parts, mixed them all separately then pasted them together.  Some wild swings that I found distracting.

Briefcase - Another great vocal treatment (can you share your eq curve.)  In general I like the entire sound.  The only things that I do not like are the snare and sometimes the EQ balancing on the kick and bass guitar.  For the snare I feel like the reverb is too thick.. or too quick.  I would have liked to hear you patch the snare send through a delay in front of the reverb to give it a little room to breath...  It sounds too much like a drum machine snare...  This REALLY bugs me since I like the rest of the mix so much.  I like the kick and the bass each on their own, but a few time when the mix get's busy I feel like I lose the bass guitar or it starts to sound... not muddy, but maybe sluggish.  Great mix though.

I will post comments on the other mixes as I get some time to listen.

Thanks again to j. and everyone else here.  I am addicted to IMP!
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jdier - Home recordist

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rankus

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Re: IMP 11 OFFICIAL discussion thread
« Reply #31 on: April 24, 2007, 01:05:13 pm »

grant richard wrote on Mon, 23 April 2007 20:53



now that i'm hearing everybody's stuff.  
~snip~
this is a good learning experience!




I think this is the most important factor of the iMP. Aside from any text feedback from others,... Simply hearing your mix up against one that you may like better is very educational.  Something that can't be done with comments or feedback.

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Rick Welin - Clark Drive Studios http://www.myspace.com/clarkdrivestudios

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j.hall

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Re: IMP 11 OFFICIAL discussion thread
« Reply #32 on: April 24, 2007, 03:44:32 pm »

chrisj wrote on Mon, 23 April 2007 19:21



I'm being kind of fierce because, well, the first thing I heard out of you sounded like 'you guys all suck, and ChrisJ REALLY sucked!'.


i never said the mixes "sucked" and i certainly never said yours "sucked more"

don't put words into my mouth.

i ALWAYS have a very specific agenda for each IMP.  i choose the songs carefully, and i add my thoughts WITH thought.

your mix is in fact too dark.  this isn't something we can write-off as a personal preference.  it's simply too dark.  it has very little clarity due to it's lack of treble.

you can make a mix feel dark, and still have it be present (see Failure's Fantastic Planet).  your mix is globally dark, so honestly, it's a very simple fix.  don't read any further into then that, and don't put words into my mouth, i do a fine job of that on my own.....

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j.hall

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Re: IMP 11 OFFICIAL discussion thread
« Reply #33 on: April 24, 2007, 03:50:35 pm »

garret wrote on Mon, 23 April 2007 23:07



J, I like your mix, but I find it fatiguing to listen to because there's so much going on around 4khz.  But maybe that's part of the rawk fury, gotta make the ear drums bleed, etc.



no, that slipped by me.  you are totally right.  and honestly, mastering would only minimize that and not cure it.

i mixed the song very fast on purpose, but the 4k should have been caught.........it's all in the guitars
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mcsnare

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Re: IMP 11 OFFICIAL discussion thread
« Reply #34 on: April 24, 2007, 03:53:45 pm »

J. you have a great ear for vibe and feel and space. What's a little extra 4k on guitars between friends?
Dave

j.hall

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Re: IMP 11 OFFICIAL discussion thread
« Reply #35 on: April 24, 2007, 04:08:33 pm »

jdier wrote on Tue, 24 April 2007 08:44



jhall -  (would you share your EQ curve applied on voice and snare?)



just to clarify, the ony verb on my entire is mix is a reverse verb on the lead vocal in the verses.

the EQ on the vocal is only one part of my vocal sound, but here it is

i used EQ3

+2.9dB @ 162Hz, Q 1.0
-3.8dB @ 464Hz, Q 1.0
+5.2dB @ 2.44k shelf, Q 1.0

there is no EQ on the snare.  just an EMI limiter, and a black beauty sample blended in, that's also compressed.

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grantis

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Re: IMP 11 OFFICIAL discussion thread
« Reply #36 on: April 24, 2007, 04:20:17 pm »

no eq???? that's crazy talk!   Very Happy
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Grant Craig
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chrisj

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Re: IMP 11 OFFICIAL discussion thread
« Reply #37 on: April 24, 2007, 05:09:54 pm »

j.hall wrote on Tue, 24 April 2007 15:44

your mix is in fact too dark.  this isn't something we can write-off as a personal preference.  it's simply too dark.  it has very little clarity due to it's lack of treble.


In retrospect- yeah, that got by me. I've referenced it to the 'clock-radio' speakers I sometimes use and this time didn't use, and it was too dark. Mind you, I do flat-out like stuff (usually older stuff, pre-1975) that is also Too Dark, we can still admit my personal preference can include that. What we can't actually say is that I can get away with it- mea culpa, that don't fly post-1972 Smile if I'd been checking on the mini-speakers like a smart guy my confidence in the thick dark vibe would have eroded.

I'm sorry for putting words in your mouth, looks like I got the wrong impression- or, the right impression but shouldn't have described it that way. I gotta work on being less defensive, criticism is my friend. This time it beat me about the head with the 'why didn't you check on the weeny speakers?' point when I took time to think about it a bit.

Interested to know what the secret motive for this one was. I find that I can usually learn something just floundering about, but when I learn what the J Secret Motive is, that's when the lesson sinks home, because usually then I can put my failings in that context Smile

As to no EQ- hey, mine has no EQ on the overheads, kick, toms, and the organ Smile what you're hearing on the overheads and snare is 'bright ambience', it's a sort of twisted reverb. What you're hearing on the organ is 'Ensemble', set to crush the computer under the load of 24 or so voices of organ ensemble...

Tom C

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Re: IMP 11 OFFICIAL discussion thread
« Reply #38 on: April 24, 2007, 05:23:34 pm »

Let the listening marathon begin:

IMP 11 mcsnaremix.mp3
I like this one a lot, instruments are nicely separated, very good
sounding low end kick/bass wise, sounds clean and professional.
Vocals could IMO have a bit more energy, a little more fader riding
would do the job.

Grant-Richard_Original-fantasy6.mp3
Low end could be more defined, I'd like to hear better what the
(really good) bass player is doing, especially in the chorus parts.
Interesting idea at the beginning the second chorus, draws back me
attention to the song nicely.
I like the guitar sound of the solo a lot.

IMP11_BoedoMIX.mp3
Good and solid mix with a nice vocal sound and a good bottom end.
Don't like the snare sound, it's a bit to dominating and sits somehow
behind the OH.

IMP11- Shakestheclown.mp3
I miss the bottom end on this one a bit, it sounds a bit
boxy and laid back because of that. Add some power there and the song
will have much more energy and impact.
Even I'm not a big fan of reverbs some of the vocal effects sound
quite cool.

IMP11-RANKUS.mp3
Intensive and in-your-face vocals, I like that a lot. Drums are a bit
kick-heavy, but the overall drum sound is good.
You could use the stereo field a bit more, it's almost mono.

iCombs_-_IMP11.mp3
Kick-wise similar to RANKUS, and the snare is a bit to dominat and plays
(reverb-wise) behind the rest of the kit.
Good use of the complete stereo field.
You tried (successfully) to make everything big, but I think the individual
instruments do not gel together very well because of that, it sounds more
like a couple of solo players mixed together.
I'd like to see the band as one unit.

IMP11-ChrisJ.mp3
Somehow dull as it was recorded behind a carpet (the drums even behind a
closed door), and that breaks the mix.
That's a pity because I like the vocals a lot, not very intense but with
a nice sound.

IMP-011-TomC.mp3
Oops, that's me. Great mix of course!

briefcasemanx_-_PMC_11.mp3
Another "I'll kill your sub-woofer" mix. Vocals are totally different to
mine, but I like that approach a lot, clean, a bit laid back but
really good sounding.
I'm missing the OH, overall the mix could be a bit brighter.

imp11-garret.mp3
You did a lot of experimentation with this one, but I think it
took away too much energy of the original recording.
Overall a bit dark.

IMP_11_macbraddy48.mp3
Wow, that's LOUD.
I like the overall sound, but that LOUDNESS takes a lot of energy away,
especially at the bottom end, and the lack of dynamics makes the song
a bit fatiguing.
Interesting and good sound vocals in the verses.

imp11_-_singsing.mp3
The lack of low end makes the sound unbalanced and bright, so it's hard
to judge the song. Maybe the excessive use of reverb wouldn't show up
that much if the overall balance would be better.
Did you steal some vocals?

IMP11_Greg_Dixon.mp3
Solid and save mix, but I think it could be a bit brighter.
I'd like to hear the kick supporting the (nice) bass a bit more.

imp11_jdier.mp3
Sounds very compressed and is therefore missing some of the dynamics.
The low end is missing, you didn't do justice to that great bass player.

imp11JHall.mp3
Mister kick is back. A completely different, more psychedelic vocal
approach, but it's working good in your mix. Best BG vox so far.
The kick sounds nice but is IMO to big for the bass, it somehow
slows down the beat. The guitars are a bit bright for my taste.

IMP11-Nizzle.mp3
A bit bright, but with a nice overall balance and a good vocal sound.
I'd like to hear the vocals (especially the BG vocals) in the chorus
a bit more, they are lacking energy.

imp11_carefulcollapse.mp3
Dunno if I like the extra chorus or not, but it's (as the other 'remixed'
parts as well) an interesting idea. Maybe I'm too used to the 'normal'
flow of the song to judge this.
Vocals get a bit drown in the chorus.

imp11_maxim.mp3
The loudness between the instruments/vocals seems a bit off and that
makes the mix unbalanced. I'd bring out the vocals more and the guitars
less.
And I actually like to hear the drums witch are more or less none existant.

IMP11-Blueboy-V1.mp3
Overall a good and save mix with nice vocals.
For my taste the snare is bit to thin/bright, it doesn't gel well with the
rest of the kit.

IMP11 - Fantomas.mp3
Nothing to complain here, like the balance and the sound of the instruments
and vocals. In the first chorus I'd adjust the dynamics of the rest better
to the rhythm guitar, they are a bit to dominant there.

IMP11-ATOR.mp3
Another one I like a lot, good sound and balance of the instrument.
I'd like to here the singer a bit better, it often competes with the
guitars. Interesting and good idea with the background vocals in the
last chorus, the rearrangement works good in your mix.

Most probably I'll dream of that song tonight...

Tom

PS: Thanks for all the feedback, I'm learning a lot from all your findings.

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j.hall

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Re: IMP 11 OFFICIAL discussion thread
« Reply #39 on: April 24, 2007, 05:48:09 pm »

you're killing me with all the bass player "notes"

stop it, i'm trying to take this seriously.......HA
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j.hall

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Re: IMP 11 OFFICIAL discussion thread
« Reply #40 on: April 24, 2007, 05:53:40 pm »

chrisj wrote on Tue, 24 April 2007 16:09



Interested to know what the secret motive for this one was.



in time.

this one was a bit obscure in it's motive, and has some obvious things that many have figured out already.

the obvious stuff was the already cut arrangement, clipped tracks, and other tracking issues......

the more obscure one will develop as this thread goes on.

i will say this, my disappointment lies in the fact that i wanted to hear every one bring their biggest, slickest, "FM radio" sound to the party.

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Tom C

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Re: IMP 11 OFFICIAL discussion thread
« Reply #41 on: April 24, 2007, 06:04:58 pm »

j.hall wrote on Tue, 24 April 2007 23:48

you're killing me with all the bass player "notes"

stop it, i'm trying to take this seriously.......HA


But that bass player is really a very........

Okay, I'll stop it.



For now.


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Tom

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jdier

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Re: IMP 11 OFFICIAL discussion thread
« Reply #42 on: April 24, 2007, 06:09:29 pm »

Tom C wrote on Tue, 24 April 2007 16:23

Let the listening marathon begin:

imp11_jdier.mp3
Sounds very compressed and is therefore missing some of the dynamics.
The low end is missing, you didn't do justice to that great bass player.





Thanks for the note.  I am waiting for someone to throw the old Steve Martin gag at me:  "Yeah, I remember when I got my first compressor."

I mixed everything fast and all on reaper with a brand new set of plugs that I have never used before...  Does not excuse the compressor abuse.

Thanks for the notes though.
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jdier - Home recordist

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macbraddy

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Re: IMP 11 OFFICIAL discussion thread
« Reply #43 on: April 24, 2007, 06:11:38 pm »

Wow! Yeah -- I guess my mix is loud. I hadn't realized it until listening to it up against all of yours. I suppose part of the problem was that for the longest time (in fact all of the time) I was mixing at 44.1 trying to find ways to tighten it up a bit. Nudging the snare forward in time a bit etc.. trying to create drive and whatnot. I guess I was over compensating.

This was really fun though. My first imp mix, offically. Quite a learning experience. Great song too -- It had an old school Sunny Day Real Estate kind of vibe to it. That's what I was shooting for -- And probably why 44.1 sounded right for so long to me.

Brad
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mcsnare

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Re: IMP 11 OFFICIAL discussion thread
« Reply #44 on: April 24, 2007, 06:20:09 pm »

I spent a fair amount of time moving the bass to get it tighter to the drums. No slag on the bass player, I just like it tight and hearing the bass ahead of the drum groove drives me crazy. I also moved the acoustic for tightening, and did some very minor drum edits for groove.
Dave
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