Okay, here comes Evil ChrisJ... not really, but what with feeling defensive about J's initial remarks, and also with a lot of 'WTF???' moments in some of the mixes, this wasn't one of my happy happy joy joy crits. Remember, I'm just this bozo with a copy of Logic Express, not even Logic Pro: if you LIKED what I did, woohoo, if you hated it, feel free to ignore all of my ravings. That said, I went on a real tear this time and am talking at length about practically every entry, and have publically disagreed with J's choices in gruesome detail
Enjoy- and I look forward to getting my own public floggings over MY choices, which however I've hopefully shed some light on. This is gonna be an interesting discussion, the mix authors SPLIT into at least two major camps, both of which found support in the tracked material. Serious bloodbath potential
I ask only this: flame me back but go into equally gruesome detail as to why I'm wrong!
IMP 11 crit thread
briefcasemanx- Feels good, relaxed. Stiffens up a bit in the choruses, and starts to sound crunchy and modern, which everybody knows I'm not a fan of
The drums feel a little bit like they're a drum machine, and I'm not sure why except that the tones have an aura to them that feels clicky. I don't like all the high percussion, it tends to become just 'sizz-sizz-sizz-sizz'- makes me wonder if the original tracks really were 44.1K and SRCed to 48 poorly. That's a crit of the tracks, though, you just haven't fixed it for them.
Fantomas- Feels nice and polished- things sit well. I'm hearing the details of the organ more than usually, which is neat- the chorus thickens up nicely with the guitars. I'm finding the vocals are sitting back a bit- by which I mean, they're part of the whole 'everything in its place' thing. There's a problem with that which Boedo also ran into, and it's this: too slick and it slips right by without the listener noticing anything. What bits do you think ought to stick out obnoxiously? Because I'm not hearing ANYTHING stick out. In a way that's an amazing feat of polishing, and if you're listening critically there's less to fault, but the song gets boring with too much of that, and there's no worse fault really. Also it's an odd thing to do, making a half-fade and half-ending. I think that's about downplaying the slightly wonky ending so it's less noticable, but I don't think it worked.
Grant Richard- Compression pumping the snare- yeah, this is gonna be a RAWWWK mix. Boy, it sure sounds modern. I have a problem here because I'm not wanting to hear this, the way about five different things are going 'poke-poke-poke-poke' at me with extreme highs, the way the background of the chorus is a wall of white noise guitars. I think it's a pretty decent take at a 'modern rock' mix- for a better take, listen to what J does- with some lapses like the band-mute trick and various studio tricks flying about. I also think this is a terrible thing to do to an emotive song, because it turns it into a goddamn fleet of chrome jet bombers cruising along, and I totally don't connect with the point of the song that way. Maybe it's just me.
iCombs- Whoa, high impact snare man! However, the whole top end of the track is acting like a giant scissors. snikt-snikt-snikt-snikt go the hat/bells/ac.guit etc. I hear this mix setting new records for everything louder than everything else, I'm just not that into the way that feels here. I always figure there's something really wrong if I want to turn it off, and it's not as bad as that but everything is just... too... loud (yeah, I'm just too OLD, ok, carry on then). I could hear cookie monster vocals over this background without too much trouble, but damn- I just can't agree with this one. It's almost in that 'XTC Oranges and Lemons' zone which I do like, but it has a more rocky feel and less poppy. I like the skill just not where it went...
macbraddy- Ow! Loud much? If you're hotter than modern hot CDs out of Sterling Sound, something's wrong. So aggressive... I can get behind the way you're not obliterating the vocal, that's a saving grace for me, and I'm impressed that you're not dynamic inverting even when at this level, but the whole thing is making me really tense. Even bits that are supposed to feel _relaxed_ are making me tense, both from sheer loudness and from the aggression of all the mix elements. It makes me wonder if the mix would still hold together if it wasn't smashed totally flat. Bear in mind I'm not shy about extreme hot level myself- but it has to be used so the relaxed bits aren't dropping out. When the relaxed bits are beating your head in, this is called unclear on the concept
TomC- Pretty big and pounding. This time instead of going snikt snikt snikt, it goes whump whump whump with a throbbing bass and kick. VERY LOUD VOICE. I can't disagree with that, I make similar choices, but not quite as much as this I think. It's right on the brink of TOO loud, which for a lead vocal is really getting up there. I don't want to have to cringe back from the vocalist. Funny qualities in the acoustic guitars. In general, sort of 'packed up'- it's squished into too small of a space like what you'd expect from mastering, I'm not feeling any depth and space to speak of out of this. I'm not sure this would balance that well if everything was quieted down so you could hear it.
Shakes the Clown- Turned it right up- this one isn't bus-smashed. Right away I hear a huge yen for bigness. I respect that. Echoing vast snare, those funny vocal verb tricks- oh yes, we have the big soundstage going on here. I do like that, what I'm missing is the impact, for instance on the backbeat. It gets lost in the size a bit. I'd also like to have the singer even more in my lap to contrast with all the distance elsewhere. I also note that here's someone else who got fond of that organ backdrop! I think some of us went rather dark by modern standards specifically to try to blend things with that organ without killing it. You got the organ sounding and feeling full-size, Shakes- kudos. The trick then becomes getting drums, vocals, lead guitars etc to still jump up and be upfront and aggressive, because everything can't sit back with the organ. You _can't_ stay aware of the organ all the time, as cool as it is. Almost anything in the foreground will mask it. That's life as an organist in rock settings
ATOR- Ow. (just the edge on the guitars, no biggie). Hey, I'm loving the backbeat- that is a MONSTER snare sound. It's kind of bigger than the lead vocal, though. I'm constantly wanting the lead vocs to be bigger, but liking the groove on the drums anyway. The chorus starts hurting my head again- purely as a factor of how loud it is, not anything too specific. Neat arrangement trim! If the song had to be shorter that's a good way to do it. I'm less fond of all the vocal drop-ins everywhere, though I can tell why they're there. Some VERY COOL guitar layering, especially the bit where the screaming high note comes in. All in all, I don't like the _concept_ of compressing all the spaces of this song, but I sure am impressed by this _way_ of doing that. Very very slick. The only thing to watch out for is this- with every moment packed with exciting stuff, there isn't the contrast and it all sort of blurs together. There's some of that here, for exactly that reason- no breathing space. I wonder how brief breathing space could be and still work as a contrast?
ChrisJ- Yeah, it's black as the heart of hell. Somebody spank this boy and take his pipe organ away
Garret- Okay, immediate need to do weird thing
not bus smashed. This feels kind of sparse in the verse, naturally what with the drums missing! I like some of this aggressive arrangement, other parts not. Nice introduction of drums, annoying reverb hit on the vocals. Most of the time I like the sound of the voice, though. Boy, that's an aggressive remapping of the harmony vocal but that's like changing the song- are you that sure that the new part is better and that you've tried to appreciate the intent of the old one? I had to get crazy with automation to make the harmony be heard at all times, but I still liked the notes used. I just get the sense that it's possible to dig deeper into what the original music was attempting- like with the vocal verb sting, when the voice gets that loud, is the song really trying to make it suddenly be far away, or is the vocalist more hitting that line super hard and emphasizing it? What would be a line where the song would like it to be suddenly far away? (not 'YOU'RE GOOONE', reverb would be saying 'I'M gone! see ya!')
Nizzle- Loud. Right. Bright, also. We are clearly as modern as next week. That said, the tones sound okay. I think we have another 'remap the chorus harmony' and again I'm not convinced the new line is better for the song- why would that bit lift, to be cheerful? The original line resolves on 'for me', except you have to crank the fader to hear it because the track dies. The overall mix is kind of glossy but I could do with more body and upfrontness from the vocals- I want them to come off more like people and less like additional harmony instruments. They blend in very slickly and I tend to like lead vocals to not merge with the song so much. Check out TomC's mix to hear just how loud vocals can be in a pop song. You can clobber the song with the vocals, it's great
Rankus- Hit-you-in-the-chest kick! This is gonna be drum-centric. They sound real good, I'm loving the balance, and I'm not losing the vocal too much. I like. The chorus gets softer, though- it washes out, without doing anything especially wrong- unlike say J's mix, the wall of guitars isn't there. I don't actually mind that much here, because this song feels softer to me- reminds me of Journey or something. I _hate_ Journey and Rush guitar walls because they're processed and bland, but on a song like this maybe that's just the thing. I just have a feeling that this mix works with the feel of the song really nicely. OH yeah. This one I'm truly enjoying. There's a sort of expensive, slick, polished quality to it that suits it right down to the ground. Huge respect
SingSing- Immediately turned it down! Ow. The immediate feeling I get is of a sort of wild abstract sound picture- the guitar pick brite is super hot, the vocal's all reverbed (and strangely hacked up in arrangement- WHY lose 'with no-one to rescue me', that's the whole point of the lyric!). Everything's a cocaine nightmare, very glamorous, resonant with strange atmospheres. I can easily imagine songs that would be great like this, but I totally can't get it about this one. The meaning goes away, it's a chrome shell of sound, the song as a chrome android. Which is to say, I didn't like this mix
Boedo- Much more normal. I'm feeling the contrast between the upfront dry vocal and elements like the reverberating snare crack. It feels solidly polished- maybe a little static. The polishedness is like a 'don't touch, you'll get fingerprints all over it' sort of polishedness, there's something sort of empty here. Maybe it has a lot to do simply with the fact that the snare verb feels SO empty and cavernous? I do think the 'it drives me crazy every night' part stepped up and put out an extra effort, though- I felt it dig into that bit like it meant it, and that helps a lot. Still, there are other places that feel like they're just so polished and controlled that they're on _cruise_ control, the energy doesn't have any surprises in it. I'm a big fan of the sheer artistry of this execution, it just worries me that the song can end and I can be like 'next!' without any hesitation. If the energy surged along with the meaning of the words it can go to a place where you want to listen to the song obsessively over and over- when it's so utterly polished nothing catches. Too slick, man, it slips through your fingers and is gone...
carefulcollapse- Heavy. The bass and kick here are really dominant. It's a problem that they dominate even the lead vocal. If the bass and kick together can beat up the lead vocal you have problems. Yikes, they kicked the lead vocal out of the verse and went to another part! Eek. Not good! Bad to have the rhythm section beating up the lead vocalist and the song. It was totally about 'HEY GUYZ, listen to what we can do! BA DA DOMMM'. The poor guy was trying to sing a song, you guys, and you booted his ass off the stage. Nope. Oh look, they kicked the vocals off the chorus too! *ROFL* oh MAN... no, not okay. Next time work WITH the vox and the song, not throwing all kinds of modulations and stuff at the hapless song. This is right in that 'you can't DOOOO that' zone, like the guys that remapped the harmony vocals, only worse. There's a song there- maybe it doesn't do such exciting things, but it IS the song. This mix dismays me as bad as mine dismayed J
jdier- Whoa, captain buss compression! Why is the intro guitar way louder than the full band? By the time the vocal comes, it's settled down some, and I'm liking the feel of it, though this is not a heavy feel at all- it's very yacht rocky- but then so is the song, no wonder I like it. The vocal steps back when it gets loud- and the chorus steps back too, instead of getting loud. That's not good, you can't have your quiet bits upfront and loud, and the loud bits quiet and suppressed, it's backward. There's a lot to like here, always in the quiet bits, but as soon as things try to get loud it just sucks back into the depths of the speakers. Total, total dynamic inversion. I do think I'm hearing a nice springiness in the lows probably as a result of this compression, but it's at too high a cost if the dynamics invert that bad. If I was mastering this I would SO ask for a no-comp version, just because it sounds quite good except for the extreme dynamic inversion. That's something I'd almost never do because I figure mixers are going to get it the way they want it using whatever they got, but in this case it's like auto-gain-control, it's not helping.
J Hall- Best guitar wall of the lot. No question. I'm not getting into the ambience on the vocal- with the intimate delivery of these vocals, why aren't they dry? That's me not agreeing with the choice of a more 'live concert' feel. It gives the mix an 'empty' feel like Boedo's, and in a way I can see why that would make sense, but the thing is, the song and the emotions of the singer are NOT EMPTY, totally not. The guy's drowning in feelings- dude, you try it, my life has paralleled this song more than I like in recent months. In a way I feel like interposing a 'rock and roll gig' vibe over the top of this track is way off base. I'm hearing it on the lead guitar solo as well. Before you dis on my tonal balance because it doesn't crackle like a live performance (as yours DOES, really well), check that- like on the guitar solo, from about 3:33. Your lead guitar sounds more like a stage performance, but the changes in tone it undergoes are a lot less than the track has to offer because it's focused around that bridge-pickup, screaming-guitar moment it does, the shred area. There's a whole warmth-and-intimacy thing the lead guitar does, and this is a tradeoff, you lose it in exchange for the wall-of-PAs live sound. Just because the song has potentially big guitar walls doesn't mean that's what the point of the song is, I don't agree with that choice. I'm being kind of fierce because, well, the first thing I heard out of you sounded like 'you guys all suck, and ChrisJ REALLY sucked!'. More like, you chose something that was VERY different from some of us, and I'm not at all persuaded that the song had to have it. It's damn well executed, like Boedo except he was 'uber slick' and you are 'uber RAWWWK'. But that's not the only way to approach this song, seriously. I count maybe six guys who went for that intimacy, warmth thing in various ways and five who went for the RAWWWWK thing. I don't call that a mandate, so try more to understand what the duller mixes are trying to do. For instance, you'll hear way more top-end on the acoustic guitar and high percussion than on the dirt guitars in the wuss mixes, and you might also hear (I counted two guys here) a really big full bed coming from that pipe organ. You get that going, there's no room for dirt guitars at all, and if you brighten it it sounds totally wrong.
But then we can fight this out further down the thread, I gotta give J a chance to explain how wrong I am
Bottom line- maybe the biggest range of possible mix spaces and vibes yet! In a lot of ways, the different vibes actually WORK, too. We have to be patient with the enemy vibes amongst us
That should set the cat among the pigeons!
