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[chrisj]

Fantomas- which bits in the vocal need to be different level? I ask because it would be mistakes of commission rather than omission- the vocals are being ridden up and down on every phrase and sometimes every syllable, more than 6 db sometimes. So any bit that didn't seem right, I did by hand so, was stuff coming out too soft, or too loud, and needing to be fixed?

[Gabriel F]

chrisj: the only thing about the vocal level is just after the singer screams the line "just so far away" the next line sounds a little disconnected. i made this comment because it sounds like you really worked on your vocal levels but some minor details got lost(in the search for the perfect tree you forgot about the forest).

vkorehov: i agree with most of your comments. the cymbals should be louder but i didnt like they way they sound. it seens that i really liked the mixes with the cymbals softer.

[rankus]

Cymbals tend to come up in mastering as well...

[iCombs]

AHH!! THE REVIEWS...FINALLY!!!!

BriefcasemanX - I like the generally up-front treatment.  The vocals are soft (not necessarily a bad thing), though they still are the focus of the mix.  It feels like there's a little more "bope" in your snare sample than "crack," but I'll chalk that up to personal taste.  The toms are a hair indistinct.  I'm not sure I dig the treatment of the last vocal lines.  This is something that was a beef for me with more than one mix, but it seems like the vocal in that last set of lines should be dominated by the "backing" vocal, as it is the one that provides all the drama.

Fantasy 6 - JESUS!  Compress much?  I dig the agression, but it feels a little choked...especially the snare.  I like the way the guitars pump, though.  The drums are well up in the mix, but they seem a little flat from the compression.  The dry lead vocal leaves me a little cold...but I do like that stop before the last chorus...cool idea.  On the whole, it just feels a little too scrunched for my taste.

mcsnare - even...punchy...perhaps a touch dark.  Your vocal treatment is very neutral.  I dig the lo-fi shaker.  And that snare has some pretty incredible "whack" to it.  It might be nice to hear the kick drum come with a little more agression...to help it keep up with the snare.  I love the treatment on the vocals.  Simple, clean, dynamic...I like the end vocals.  Very nice.

TomC - Big loose snare!  I'm not sure I dig the sample.  Everything feels up front.  The vocal feels out of time.  And not in a particularly stylish way.  Everything feels a little up front and the mix feels like there's no space in it...it squeezes itself into the soundfield.  The delay on the accoustic is a might distracting...though it's interesting to hear all the different tactics used with that accoustic.

Fantomas - First thing that sticks out to me is that the snare is way brighter than the cymbals.  That doesn't make sense to my ears, and makes the mix sound kinda unbalanced.  Especially conisdering that the vocals are fairly bright, as well.  The vocal sibilants are brighter than pretty much anything in the mix.  I do like the guitars up...but they're a bit chubby.  Put them shits on a diet and you're looking good.  

Shakes - Cymbals!! WOO!!!  Lots of them.  I like the space factor...your mix has some breath.  I can't quite make out what that hash is in the background of your mix...it sounds like some sort of mutilated vocal delay return.  Those cymbals are BURYING the rest of the mix.  The OH's need to come back.  Everything else feels good, but it's kinda hard to tell through that wash.

ATOR - Bright...in a good way.  The kick has some snap.  Voxengo SPAN tells me that you've got a lot going on between 2 and 6k.  Mayhaps a bit too much, after listening for a bit.  I like the harmony treatment...might be the best pitch shifting of the chorus harmonies (of those who did that).  Though I'm not sure that the harmony needed to move.  That's definitely something that I think needs some more discussion.

Blueboy - Damn does that snare crack.  Might want to open up that top band on your EQ...it sounds congested.  I like the rest of your mix...but I can't really hear "around" the snare.  The vocal treatments are good...though they sound just a HAIR too far back.  Like the vocal delays in the breakdown.  I like the way your cut the guitar solo.  You are WAY nicer than I was to that solo.

ChrisJ - Everyone said it.  Dark.  Yep.  I tried to touch the high end up with an EQ...and it just hurt my ears.  Everything feels weird on top.  The balances feel good, but everything's pretty much up front on your mix.  There's not a lot going on in the way of depth.

Garret- Dark.  But you know that.  No drums in the first verse, eh?  Ballsy!  Not sure I dig it...but I dig the 'nads!.  The vocal treatment seems to be a little manic...it swings pretty hard from the first verse into that first chorus.  Backing vocal HAS to come up.  Especially at the end.  The end lacks a lot of drama.  But I think you already adressed that.

Nizzle - Damn!  This mix sounds like I just said something mean about its mom and it wants to kick my ass.  The snare feels a little diffuse...it'd be nice to hear that eminate from a more singular point.  The balances all feel really good...everything's pretty well on the bright side.  Not sure I like the execution of the slide on the harmony vocal.  Is that dirt I hear on the bass?  Nice.  This mix might be more limited than mine.  That's a lot.  I like the way the end got cut down!

Rankus - Wow.  Sparse in that intro!  I like the punch of that snare...the OH feels like it could come up a bit.  The vocal is CRUSHED!  It kinda bludgeons its way through the middle of the track.  It feels dark...but in a richer way than some of the other darker tracks.  Prehaps a little less crush on the vocal and some more sparkle on stuff like the accoustic and the OH tracks.  Also...the snare didn't trigger that buildup right.  The snare came in kinda out of nowhere.  

SingSing - Bright. Up front.  Energy is good.  It feels like it keeps pushing forward.  I like the sparkle of that accoustic.  I'm not sure I like the cut into that first chorus.  If you were looking to cut on the arrangement...I don't think that was the place.

Bodeo - The bed of the music is well made.  The vocal seems like it's laying on it in a funny way.  If those vocals had the air on top of them that your OH tracks had, this would be a 100% solid mix.  It would have been nice to hear some cutting on the arrangement.

Carefulcollapse - Snare feels kinda weak, for as big as that backbeat is.  The lead guitar is bright enough, but I don't think the rest of the mix is.  This is the first mix I've listened to that really features the organ that prominently.  Don't really dig the recut of that first verse.  Makes it really schizo, arrangement-wise.  Not a fan of the end edit.  You kinda cut out all the exciting parts.

Greg Dixon - Another darker mix.  This one did take some top EQ and not sound gross.  Good balances...I like where that organ sits in the verse.  It keeps it full.  The backing vocals are up where they belong.  Keeps the vocal tracks exciting.

Jdier - This song has a killer bassline.  It NEEDS to be featured.  I can barely hear it.  This could stand for a subtantial kick in the ass in terms of bottom end content.  There just isn't a whole lot.  The vocal feels like it's got some splatter going on in the mids.  I do like how you got the guitars to sit, though.  Good midrange clarity in those tracks.  Everything just needs to get "biggened."

Maxim - WOW.  Where are the cymbals?  For that matter...where are the drums?  Or the bass?  Okay...I found the bass...but those drums are next to non-existant.  Bring 'em back!

J hall - The cymbals make the top end a little spicy.  Other than that, I really like the mix, though for as much as you advocate cutting on arrangements, I'm really suprised we didn't get that from your mix.  You left the guitar solo in, but it really doesn't seem to have the featured spot that a guitar solo normally gets.  

Macbraddy - that snare sticks out of everything like a turd in a punchbowl.  Did you check this in mono?  You might want to.  Shit sorta disappears.  Like the vocals.

-----------------------

There we go!  That's everything that was up by deadline.

I think there are a couple arrangement points I'd like to discuss or ask about, if I may...the big one being that guitar solo.  Normally I'm a fan of guitar soloing, but that one didn't feel to me like it had a place in that song.  It just felt like an afterthought.  I cut it out completely.  I saw a couple other cuts on that solo.  I'm curious as to what the general consensus (if such a thing is possible around here) is on that solo.

Also...the re-tuning of the vocal harmonies.  I can't say I'm for it.  The harmonies created really good tension.  It wasn't as exciting to me when that tension got resolved.  Again...thoughts on this?

[Vladislavs Korehovs]

Rising then in mixing has advantage..
You don't rise overtones/noise limiter distortions of other taracks together with cymbals. Then effectively making it sounds leaner.

[grantis]

icombs-
thanks for the comments.  i agreed about the snare, and that my mix was a bit bright.  please take a listen to this revision.

http://www.grantrichard.com/mp3/fantasy8.mp3

grant

[grantis]

Quote:

Also...the re-tuning of the vocal harmonies. I can't say I'm for it. The harmonies created really good tension. It wasn't as exciting to me when that tension got resolved. Again...thoughts on this?

I COMPLETELY AGREE, that was the whole point of those harmonies, to invoke an emotion that could not be invoked by resolved harmonies.

grant

[maxim]

ian wrote:

"Where are the cymbals?"

they gave me the shits

i suppose i should have tried to work with them....

i found the whole track rather challenging

well done, j!

[rankus]

Thanks everyone for the comments.  I appreciate your time.

To respond:

My mix is as I intended it... Crushed vox were by choice.. I felt this song could handle that over the top thing..

Tubby boxy kick was a choice as well.

Mono? yep!  (Thanks for noticing...)

Gtrs tucked in / not enough highs... yep


The reason for this approach was to actually smear some of the instruments together to hide indiscretions in tracking, such as harsh guitars and cymbals... (the only instrument tracked well here was the bass IMO) (although the tracks were usable)  Terry Manning once said: "if you can't get clarity and separation then you should make soup, where everything blends together" ....

As I said earlier, mastering will bring out the high end etc... you have to remember I did not use any two buss comp, or eq on this as many others did... I leave that up to mastering, as always, this is a mix that I would do if I were charging for it...

My post is not to defend my mix but to illustrate alternative methods and approach.

Props to McSnare and Blueboy...

Sorry, I won't have time to review this round... two albums and an EP on the table right now... (yes!)

Thanks again everybody.

[j.hall]

WOW, that took me some time to catch up on this thread.

i leave the country for a few days, end up in a place with no internet, and ya'll go crazy..........

first off, all the mixes submitted post deadline shouldn't be here.  every one knows the rules and if you don't, they are clearly posted.  it's not fair to the people who get their mix done in time to sneak in the back door.......

secondly, my "recall challenge" is only for the two people i asked.

i've got jim's recall notes and i will do those in the next few days.

some one asked me to put up raw mp3's then processed mp3's.  i don't really have time for that, you'll have to use your ears and have me explain how i did certain things.  critical listening is a HUGE part of being a good mixer.

if i missed any specific questions aimed at me, please ask them again.

if you want my treatments of specific things just let me know.


i re-amped the guitars with the Sans-Amp PSA-1 plug-in in PT.  no idea the settings as i audio suite those every time.

the PSA-1 is a DSP hog, i can't afford it to run TDM with all my other stuff i need.

[briefcasemanx]

oh, I thought you were going to give me some corrections to make before I did my recall....

[j.hall]

briefcasemanx wrote on Wed, 25 April 2007 22:58

J Hall: I'm listening in headphones, so take that into account. Can't listen on monitors right now. -Less white noisey-ness in the guitars like people have been saying. But it doesn't have to be attenuated a lot, it's not bad. -There's something weird going on in the left side  with the guitars. You can really hear it during that 1st intro riff before everything comes in. Turn that down a little, especially in the intro riff where it commands too much attention. -There's a delay in the chorus, I think it's a ping pong that starts on the left side. On the word "wait" the first slapback is too loud/distracting. I'd turn it down about a db or 2 on that word for the first generation of the delay, if that makes sense. -on the buildup to the second chorus, I think the overheads are too loud. I'd turn those down a db or 2. -I could be insane, but it sounds like theres a phaser/flanger on an effect that is on the vocal in the first verse. Like a flanged delay maybe? On the word "question" it becomes obvious, and I would automate the "mix" parameter of the phaser/flanger lower just for this word. It's in the phrase "without question I". I could be just hearing shit as far as it being a phaser or flanger, but there's something going on on that word that bugged me.

ok guys.  there is a point to this.  if you are interested (universal you) my mixes are pretty level matched, so you should be able to A/B them with little trouble.

http://www.thetarhythm.com/imp11/imp11JHallBriefRECALL.mp3

[j.hall]

briefcasemanx wrote on Mon, 30 April 2007 21:48

oh, I thought you were going to give me some corrections to make before I did my recall....

i am, but not yet.  let's focus on mine for a minute.  then we'll do yours.

[Tom C]

j.hall wrote on Thu, 26 April 2007 00:00

tom C, you want in on the recall challenge as well?

Back from my short trip as well, so here's my wish list (compiled
from a musician/producer point of view, not from a spectrum
analyzing AE nerd view with frequences and other stuff).

As you might remember I'm not completely happy with the kick drum,
especially in the intro and chorus parts it dominates too much.
I'd like to hear the bass more as the sustain of the kick (or the
kick more as the attack of the bass), so if the kick says 'Twack'
and the bass says 'Bwamm' I'd like to hear them married to a nice
fat 'Twamm'.
If it's (loudness wise) now 80% kick and 20% bass (in the verses
70/30) I'd love to hear how 60/40 (plus/minus 10%) sounds like.

macsnare's mastered version illustrates what I mean quite good,
but I'm aware that in a real life scenario we wouldn't have such
a good example to show the AE what we mean, so just go with what
I tried to visualize (audiolize?) with my words.

The second point are the guitars, they are too bright in the
chorus. That isn't bad in itself, but between the loud kick
and that guitars there seems to be a hole frequency wise.

My personal taste in vocals would be more 'in your face', but
they are nice as they are now, so if they still work after the
changes mentioned above just keep them.

Tom

PS: you're right, trying to articulate changes is a very good
exercise, especially when it's not in your native language and
you're not in the same studio with the AE.

[j.hall]

Tom C wrote on Tue, 01 May 2007 05:33

j.hall wrote on Thu, 26 April 2007 00:00 tom C, you want in on the recall challenge as well? Back from my short trip as well, so here's my wish list (compiled from a musician/producer point of view, not from a spectrum analyzing AE nerd view with frequences and other stuff). As you might remember I'm not completely happy with the kick drum, especially in the intro and chorus parts it dominates too much. I'd like to hear the bass more as the sustain of the kick (or the kick more as the attack of the bass), so if the kick says 'Twack' and the bass says 'Bwamm' I'd like to hear them married to a nice fat 'Twamm'. If it's (loudness wise) now 80% kick and 20% bass (in the verses 70/30) I'd love to hear how 60/40 (plus/minus 10%) sounds like. macsnare's mastered version illustrates what I mean quite good, but I'm aware that in a real life scenario we wouldn't have such a good example to show the AE what we mean, so just go with what I tried to visualize (audiolize?) with my words. The second point are the guitars, they are too bright in the chorus. That isn't bad in itself, but between the loud kick and that guitars there seems to be a hole frequency wise. My personal taste in vocals would be more 'in your face', but they are nice as they are now, so if they still work after the changes mentioned above just keep them. Tom PS: you're right, trying to articulate changes is a very good exercise, especially when it's not in your native language and you're not in the same studio with the AE.

http://www.thetarhythm.com/imp11/imp11JHallTomCRECALL.mp3