R/E/P Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: [1] 2 3  All   Go Down

Author Topic: Converting My Garage  (Read 9920 times)

el duderino

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 792
Converting My Garage
« on: April 04, 2007, 05:00:11 pm »

hey everybody...this is going to be a long process (and post)so i appreciate any help. hell i appreciate you reading it at all!

well, i've decided to bite the bullet and convert my garage. Not to a full blown studio, but a quality control room with an iso booth for overdubs. and HOPEFULLY a half bathroom.

Its going to be DIY for the most part (aside from electrical and other things that kill). Luckily, just about every local band I've worked with has at least 1 guy who does some form of construction so most labor will be free. Plus, it turns out an old friend is a plumber who is starting a metal band that needs to record. So im callin in favors and setting up to owe some.

Now, the space is a two car detached garage that is about 20'x 20'and has nothing in it. cement slab for a floor and the walls are basically just studs inside. outside is sort of stucco but not 100% sure on that. The ceiling is about 8' where it meets the side wall and slopes up to 14' in the center.

First off, do you guys think this is doable? i mean i know we can build it, but do you think it could be up to the potential im hoping (gear aside for now)?

Also, (and this is where i have no clue) putting in electricity (only has 1 outlet at present) and some sort of heating system/AC are blowing my mind. When exactly does this stuff happen? would it need a frame for the inner wall built before both can go in? how's it usually done? is this stuff going to cost as much as materials for everything else? thats my current grief.

another thing im wondering is if the iso booth will do its job. there's going to be loud amps in it and while ive dealt with less than stellar iso booths before, they were in studios where id didnt have to worry about neighbors. well, at least MY neighbors. Also, building an iso booth would be better than one of those pre fab ones right?

btw, the closest building is my house about 20 ft away. then a neighbor's house about the same distance, maybe a bit more. I'd very much like to not piss them off when doing rhythm gtrs at 2 am. Plus, i monitor fairly loud.

i've read the master handbook of acoustics (a couple times) and keep going back to it as well as this forum and some others and of course ethan's site. I *think* i have an ok grasp of building the shell- thick insulation, layer of drywall caulked, 4" air gap, second wall with more insulation and two layers of drywall caulked and having the seams of them not on top of one another. then comes bass traps and diffusers where needed.

would it be beneficial to use rigid fiberglass in either wall instead of the usual stuff?

would the ceiling need as much, or could 1 layer of drywall and a lot of insulation do it? im mainly worried about the weight with much more than that.

ive got about 5 guys to help do drywall, insulation, and flooring. Plus I'm putting a new roof on this sucker so we'll be ripping off the old one to save money. I'll handle the audio cabling and initial acoustic design (hoping to have enough $ to pay for some consultancy on that).

Well thats about it for now. Am i insane? I figure in a worst case scenario where i fail at having a studio I'll have added some value to my home by having a separate functioning "guest house" that needs some windows Laughing

I'll try to get exact measurements tonight or tomorrow and post a little diagram of what im thinking of.

Thanks in advance. As this thing moves along i'll post pictures of the progress. now to go read Fibes buildout thread....again.
Logged

crna59

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 277
Re: Converting My Garage
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2007, 11:11:25 pm »

This is good that you are asking now. First I would make sure the structure is sound! LOL Not kidding! The thing you should consider is to build a room within a room. That's what I did in my basement. Luckily for me the ceiling height was 12'. You will also need this to contain the sound and keep sound from outside coming in.
Now... If the building is ready, you'll need electrical/plumbing permits. Also if you want complete isolation, you might want to saw the concrete between the rooms. Now before you put anything on the walls, you will need to acoustically caulk every seam/hole/junction... whatever. Acoustical caulk is cheap and I went through 33 cases!
Next comes the plumbing. This you will need to saw the concrete for drainage. Consult a plumber. Next will be electrical. Wires will be run through studs/joists. You'll need to caulk these as well. My electrical was $30k. !! Acoustical caulk is your friend!
Next comes the insulation. Rock wool is the best, but the pink stuff will be more cost efficient. You can then start to think about if you want a room within a room, or just build everything up. Don't forget the vapor barrier on the concrete before you build anything on it. I sealed the concrete first.
You can either do 2 layers of 5/8 plywood on the floor with Green Glue inbetween or a raised platform floor.
Drywall is fine. Two layers of drywall with Green Glue is better. You want to decouple everything as much as possible. Think about Resilient channel. If you like to see some work in progress, take a look at my build. I spared no expense at sound isolation. You can use as much or less as your budget will allow!

http://gallery.audioasylum.com/cgi/view.mpl?UserImages=1002

Regards,
Bruce

Logged
Puget Sound Studios
Bruce A. Brown
Mastering & Post Production
Seattle, WA

It is easier to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission! Buy! Buy buy....  

el duderino

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 792
Re: Converting My Garage
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2007, 04:32:11 pm »

thanks!

its going to be 1 room with an iso so i dont think i'll saw the concrete. Tho it may help the booth i guess. hmmm....

30k on electric is alot! more than my whole budget for this in fact. I'm hoping its no where near that. Sad

I'll check into resilient channel, thanks.

Thanks for the link to your build, very helpful. I was thinking of going with u-boats under the floor as well.

I've been busy but will get a diagram u soon. Thanks again.
Logged

el duderino

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 792
Re: Converting My Garage
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2007, 03:46:10 pm »

hey guys...

so after way too long ive finally gotten to the point where things are finally ready to begin. aside from permits but thats coming within a few days.

ive attached a VERY rough sketch of what im trying to do.

the air gap will be 6", or so im planning. I cant go much bigger but if there's a reason for it to be smaller I'm all ears.

right now im wondering what to do about the squareness of it. it's 19' x 19' now and when the inner walls go up it will come down to 17 ft 2 6/8 in. for length & width.

what i'm considering is bringing in a wall a few feet more and make it into a closet for storage. but will this work? or just add to my problems?

also if there are any suggestions on re arranging the positioning of things id love to hear it.

kind of just freaking out here over it and wondering if it will end up being horrendous and require a similar if not larger budget to treat the room. Crying or Very Sad index.php/fa/5773/0/
Logged

crna59

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 277
Re: Converting My Garage
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2007, 04:59:19 pm »

I'd say if it were me that had this space, I would rotate everything 90 degrees to the right and have the door over my left shoulder and the Iso booth over my right shoulder. That way you could triangulate the 2 front corners for  bass traps and add diffusion/absorption to the side walls at your first reflection points, or better yet, angle the walls somewhat.
You might want to think about building a perimeter soffit around the whole room for bass trapping.
See attachment.


Regards,
Bruceindex.php/fa/5777/0/index.php/fa/5778/0/
Logged
Puget Sound Studios
Bruce A. Brown
Mastering & Post Production
Seattle, WA

It is easier to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission! Buy! Buy buy....  

el duderino

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 792
Re: Converting My Garage
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2007, 02:56:34 pm »

thanks bruce!

i was considering turning it the room orientation and the bass traps in the front corners makes sense.

I dont think im following the "building a perimeter soffit around the whole room for bass trapping" though.


could you elaborate?

thanks for the input btw.
Logged

crna59

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 277
Re: Converting My Garage
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2007, 11:23:46 pm »

For a perimeter soffit, you frame out approximately a foot or so down from the ceiling and about a foot or so out from the wall. You put rigid fiberglass on the inside and you can use the bottom for lighting like I did. I have removable panels that will be covered in rigid fiberglass and fabric. Take a look at the picture.

Regards,
Bruceindex.php/fa/5791/0/
Logged
Puget Sound Studios
Bruce A. Brown
Mastering & Post Production
Seattle, WA

It is easier to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission! Buy! Buy buy....  

Ian Visible

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 179
Re: Converting My Garage
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2007, 09:04:45 am »

Eek, there's a ghost in your control room!  Shocked

el duderino

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 792
Re: Converting My Garage
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2007, 03:19:12 pm »

ahhhh..i see. thanks for posting the pic.

Do you think it would work if i used the space over the air gap? or might i create a resonating cavity?

I was considering it but now it looks like it could be worth it. Id have the inner wall go up to 8ft and the ceiling slopes up into the center so there would be roughly a foot high, probably a little less, and similar amount going out from the ceiling that i could stuff with rigid fiberglass. The air gap would get covered over with plywood or something to close off the space between the walls.

am i nuts?
Logged

gullfo

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 133
Re: Converting My Garage
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2007, 08:58:58 pm »

you'll likely need soffits or something overhead for hvac so the top level soffits may be useful for trapping as well as hiding duct work if you cathedral the ceiling. if you do cathedral the ceiling, you should align the CR so the front has the ceiling sloping up and away, rather than on one side or the other.

index.php/fa/5867/0/
Logged
Glenn Stanton

www.runnel.com/

Steve Hudson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1013
Re: Converting My Garage
« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2007, 03:19:58 pm »

Glenn's got some good ideas in his sketch. A square room is very problematic acoustically, so the CR should be narrowed as Glenn suggests. Do a search on room ratios and figure out what the ideal width would be with the fixed front-to-back dimension (19') and the average ceiling height. By way of example, I have a 20'x20' space with an average 10.5' ceiling, so we went with a roughly 19'x14' control room layout.
Logged
"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs.  There's also a negative side."

- Hunter S. Thompson should have said this, but didn't

http://www.myspace.com/steventoddhudson

Dave Snyder

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8
Re: Converting My Garage
« Reply #11 on: August 07, 2007, 11:33:55 pm »

1:1.6:2.33 "golden ratio".  I've never used it, but I've read about it.  Any opinions?

Workable CR dimensions for your garage would be 8' ceiling x 12.8' width x 18.64' length.  

Leaves room for the iso.  Good luck!!
Logged

gullfo

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 133
Re: Converting My Garage
« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2007, 10:55:42 pm »

there's a number of aspects to consider and room ratio is a good starting point. you can also layout the room width-wise as well as length-wise.

index.php/fa/5878/0/
Logged
Glenn Stanton

www.runnel.com/

el duderino

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 792
Re: Converting My Garage
« Reply #13 on: August 14, 2007, 01:48:51 pm »

whoa thanks glenn. much appreciated. I've been changing things around a bit and one thing i came up with is very similar to your first layout.

I've been measuring and figuring out exactly what the walls will be made of and how thick they'll end up being and also have been playing with ratios.

I've been using ethan's room mode calc and i've managed to end up using a recommended ratio afterall. 1:1.29:1.56 (if i remember that correctly, but it must be close if its not). So the control room will be 17ft 9in long, 13ft 10in wide and the ceiling is an average of 11ft.

the iso wont be quite as big as id like but its mainly for amps and there will be enough room for a singer in there. I figure if i need to OD something requiring more space we just stick on some cans and do it in the room.

thanks for the help guys, much appreciated. I'll be sure to take pics. We start by this weekend sometime, all depending on when i can get the damn electrical inspector on the phone to verify we need an 18" trench for the electrical run to the place.

time to get dirty.
Logged

el duderino

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 792
Re: Converting My Garage
« Reply #14 on: September 27, 2007, 11:24:37 am »

well, the trench is done. 20" deep and about 45ft long. would have been easier if there wasn't a bunch of concrete about a foot down!

also framed the wall that closed off the garage door. and of course took out the rails and opener.

also started working on the ceiling.

sunday we run electrical. its going great so far. the inspectors have been easier to deal with than i imagined thankfully.

pics coming soon....
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3  All   Go Up