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Author Topic: "Tutorials" about mastering  (Read 7293 times)

Catalin Truta

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"Tutorials" about mastering
« on: March 23, 2007, 04:33:28 pm »

http://streamworksaudio.com/?page=products&prodID=9& catID=12

I took the time to watch the sample and I just couldn't believe what the guy "teached". And when I think that some people actually buy these... This is one disadvantage of the internet, everybody can publish anything (only apply to such cases, of course).

dcollins

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Re: "Tutorials" about mastering
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2007, 09:19:26 pm »

Catalin Truta wrote on Fri, 23 March 2007 13:33

 http://streamworksaudio.com/?page=products&prodID=9& catID=12

I took the time to watch the sample and I just couldn't believe what the guy "teached". And when I think that some people actually buy these... This is one disadvantage of the internet, everybody can publish anything (only apply to such cases, of course).


That is a particularly bad one.

"Now that we have the analyzer in place, let's do some eqing!"

Ugh.

DC

Adam Dempsey

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Re: "Tutorials" about mastering
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2007, 09:32:23 pm »

The only single positive I could make from it is that at least the sample vid talks of EQ rather than compression or maximizing. Then he goes into the "need" for freq analysis and then to... Harbal.  Bored

Vaguely curious to know if listening skills, people skills and monitoring even rate a mention.  
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Adam Dempsey
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MASSIVE Mastering

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Re: "Tutorials" about mastering
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2007, 03:18:19 am »

Adam Dempsey wrote on Fri, 23 March 2007 20:32

The only single positive I could make from it is that at least the sample vid talks of EQ rather than compression or maximizing. Then he goes into the "need" for freq analysis and then to... Harbal.  Bored

Vaguely curious to know if listening skills, people skills and monitoring even rate a mention.  

None of that seems to be covered at all in the listed chapters...   Laughing
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John Scrip
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Vladislavs Korehovs

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Re: "Tutorials" about mastering
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2007, 02:43:42 am »

IT is good tutor. I cannot find anything wrong in provided instructions. I agree what starting mastering with balancing spectrum is MUST have step. I don't think what any of freaks hanging here can reliably do it by ear...
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Adam Dempsey

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Re: "Tutorials" about mastering
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2007, 03:08:45 am »

Vladislavs Korehovs wrote on Sun, 25 March 2007 16:43

I don't think what any of freaks hanging here can reliably do it by ear...



Excuse me?
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Adam Dempsey
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Vladislavs Korehovs

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Re: "Tutorials" about mastering
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2007, 04:45:54 am »

Adam Dempsey wrote on Sun, 25 March 2007 02:08

Vladislavs Korehovs wrote on Sun, 25 March 2007 16:43

I don't think what any of freaks hanging here can reliably do it by ear...



Excuse me?


Yes yes, and song on your myspace page is perfect example of not being balanced correctly...
Have you trieed to use Spectrum analyser to assist you?
I wonder how many oppinions on this forums are formed by rumors and some sort of overthinking what is bad without having perspective.
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Adam Dempsey

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Re: "Tutorials" about mastering
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2007, 05:20:14 am »

Really?
And which track's that? (it's changed regularly). Care to be specific?
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Adam Dempsey
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Vladislavs Korehovs

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Re: "Tutorials" about mastering
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2007, 05:27:54 am »

Adam Dempsey wrote on Sun, 25 March 2007 04:20

Really?
And which track's that? (it's changed regularly). Care to be specific?

One with Ac Guitrar starting/ending.
But i suspect there could be many:)
Just do A/B comparison of your work to Commertial CDs of corresponding style. Still not using FFT? Its same like programmer saying i don't need any debugger i'm good enough to find error myself.... I know this tutorial is naive in many aspects, but general idea is  right to me.
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Tubefreak

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Re: "Tutorials" about mastering
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2007, 05:59:55 am »

Vladislavs Korehovs wrote on Sun, 25 March 2007 04:27

Adam Dempsey wrote on Sun, 25 March 2007 04:20

Really?
And which track's that? (it's changed regularly). Care to be specific?

One with Ac Guitrar starting/ending.
But i suspect there could be many:)
Just do A/B comparison of your work to Commertial CDs of corresponding style. Still not using FFT? Its same like programmer saying i don't need any debugger i'm good enough to find error myself.... I know this tutorial is naive in many aspects, but general idea is  right to me.


That's not specific at all. You make a (very) bold statement, please enlighten us with your insight.

Name the specific track, name the problems specifically (frequencies, dynamics, etc).

A/B comparison to a no-named commercial track says nothing. Tell us how you would have mastered the song, or better... let it hear!

Although an analyzer *can* be handy, saying a pro ME needs it is like saying to Picasso he needs a color chart to make his choices.  Confused

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Tomas Danko

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Re: "Tutorials" about mastering
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2007, 06:45:17 am »

With all respect, you seem to ignore the select people who have been working for decades using rooms and monitoring system they know inside and out. To the point that they will hear what's wrong with a song, and know how to address this as mastering engineers.

There are more than a few of those guys in here. I thought I'd remind you of this, since several of your posts seem to think this is the Gearslutz forum.

A recent example was when I went to a mastering engineer who is acclaimed to be one of the best in Sweden (and I think he is the best in Sweden). On his monitors the vocals came out a tad bit thin, so he dialed in a slight boost with EQ. I told him I had notched out 340 Hz on the vocal tracks (my room made me do that, it turns out), he responded that he had boosted around 320 Hz.

No meters or FFT involved.

As an educational device, it can be interesting to tweak EQ and such while studying analyzers. At the end of the day however, the best balance tend to be made by good ears.
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Adam Dempsey

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Re: "Tutorials" about mastering
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2007, 07:05:42 am »

Tubefreak wrote on Sun, 25 March 2007 19:59

Vladislavs Korehovs wrote on Sun, 25 March 2007 04:27

Adam Dempsey wrote on Sun, 25 March 2007 04:20

Really?
And which track's that? (it's changed regularly). Care to be specific?

One with Ac Guitrar starting/ending.
But i suspect there could be many:)
Just do A/B comparison of your work to Commertial CDs of corresponding style. Still not using FFT? Its same like programmer saying i don't need any debugger i'm good enough to find error myself.... I know this tutorial is naive in many aspects, but general idea is  right to me.


Although an analyzer *can* be handy, saying a pro ME needs it is like saying to Picasso he needs a color chart to make his choices.  Confused


I like that analogy.

And yes, Vladislavs, I meant I was asking for specifics as to the "out of balance" EQ on that track.
Any knowledge you could impart on any limitations of the original recording and/or mix would be welcome, too.
(edit) fwiw, it is a commercially released CD. The artist (who regularly tours the US and has just left for a Europe tour), his fans and myself were pleased with the result. Ears were used for the basis of that consensus.

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Adam Dempsey
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bblackwood

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Re: "Tutorials" about mastering
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2007, 09:21:32 am »

Vladislavs Korehovs wrote on Sun, 25 March 2007 01:43

IT is good tutor. I cannot find anything wrong in provided instructions. I agree what starting mastering with balancing spectrum is MUST have step. I don't think what any of freaks hanging here can reliably do it by ear...


It's horrible advice, and yes, I'm one of the 'freaks' who does not use any spectrum analyzers. Instead I use these things called 'ears'.

Somehow my clients keep coming back...
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Brad Blackwood
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turtletone

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Re: "Tutorials" about mastering
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2007, 10:41:02 am »

Vladislavs Korehovs wrote on Sun, 25 March 2007 04:45

Adam Dempsey wrote on Sun, 25 March 2007 02:08

Vladislavs Korehovs wrote on Sun, 25 March 2007 16:43

I don't think what any of freaks hanging here can reliably do it by ear...



Excuse me?


Yes yes, and song on your myspace page is perfect example of not being balanced correctly...
Have you trieed to use Spectrum analyser to assist you?
I wonder how many oppinions on this forums are formed by rumors and some sort of overthinking what is bad without having perspective.



Yes I agree, I went to the myspace page and I'm watching the spectrum analyzer on the myspace player and it's very unbalanced. those little bars are jumping all over the place.
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Oldfart

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Re: "Tutorials" about mastering
« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2007, 10:56:07 am »

First off I didn't bother reading this tutorial thingy....

As a person coming from the live side of this business, tuning P.A.s  and dealing with feedback at monitor world for well over 2 decades, hunting down frequency issues was a way of life.

Now that I'm mastering, my past sure comes in handy.

This whole thing about using or not using a analyzer of any sort (or any other tool for that matter) as me shaking my head. For most situation I can easily make decisions without any tools whatsoever, YET there are times when I find it quite helpful to open up my FFT.

I find it a great tool. A great compliment to my arsenal. My mind was trained in a 3rd octave world, but as we all know, that isn't nearly as precise as we can and should be in certain mastering situation. When I know a problem is between two frequencies (let's say 6.3 and 8K), I find my FFT useful, help me hunt down something that maybe at 7.67K.

Of course, ultimately, our decisions have to made with our ears, using our experience for the given situation. Not by what we see on our tool (notice I said see).

I guess what I'm trying to say, is that I while I applaud those with enuff experience that are quite content to rely on their ears alone, when used properly a tool is a tool. And as proven time and time again, it's never about the tool, but how we use them.

One last thing, obviously, 3rd octave tools are way to coarse to be truly helpful.

Oldfart


 
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Denis Paquette

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Re: "Tutorials" about mastering
« Reply #15 on: March 25, 2007, 11:27:12 am »

Oldfart wrote on Sun, 25 March 2007 09:56



I guess what I'm trying to say, is that I while I applaud those with enuff experience that are quite content to rely on their ears alone, when used properly a tool is a tool. And as proven time and time again, it's never about the tool, but how we use them.

Oldfart


 



I second that motion...aie..aie!!
Saying that, Adam rocks Cool, lest we forget!!  

Ciao,
KAyo
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TotalSonic

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Re: "Tutorials" about mastering
« Reply #16 on: March 25, 2007, 05:04:33 pm »

Ya  know - turning around this spectrum analysis thingy - I just figured out how we can use audio analysis to help improve graphic files!

You can actually open things like tiff and jpeg files (or nearly any computer data file for that matter) as raw PCM if you have a converter (such as Audition or Awave) capable of this.  From there you can play them back and you usually get some cool Frankenstein's laboratory kind of noises.  So what I've been doing is opening these various files and listening to them and then saying things like: "nah - needs more cyan" - or "probably should increase the contrast on the left side of the picture" - and stuff like this.   And boy - has this gotten some great results!!   Very Happy  Twisted Evil  Razz  Razz

Best regards,
Steve Berson

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Re: "Tutorials" about mastering
« Reply #17 on: March 25, 2007, 05:05:35 pm »

Vladislavs Korehovs wrote on Sun, 25 March 2007 09:45

Adam Dempsey wrote on Sun, 25 March 2007 02:08

Vladislavs Korehovs wrote on Sun, 25 March 2007 16:43

I don't think what any of freaks hanging here can reliably do it by ear...



Excuse me?


Yes yes, and song on your myspace page is perfect example of not being balanced correctly...
Have you trieed to use Spectrum analyser to assist you?
I wonder how many oppinions on this forums are formed by rumors and some sort of overthinking what is bad without having perspective.


i wouldn't worry Adam, just start putting delays on your masters like our friend Vladislavs does and you'll be well on your way.
Rolling Eyes
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Andrew Hamilton

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Re: "Tutorials" about mastering
« Reply #18 on: March 25, 2007, 09:00:30 pm »

aivoryuk wrote on Sun, 25 March 2007 17:05

Vladislavs Korehovs wrote on Sun, 25 March 2007 09:45

Adam Dempsey wrote on Sun, 25 March 2007 02:08

Vladislavs Korehovs wrote on Sun, 25 March 2007 16:43

I don't think what any of freaks hanging here can reliably do it by ear...



Excuse me?


Yes yes, and song on your myspace page is perfect example of not being balanced correctly...
Have you trieed to use Spectrum analyser to assist you?
I wonder how many oppinions on this forums are formed by rumors and some sort of overthinking what is bad without having perspective.


i wouldn't worry Adam, just start putting delays on your masters like our friend Vladislavs does and you'll be well on your way.
Rolling Eyes


Yeah, not sure about the other guys music (highly artefacty), but Dempsey's myspace site has some killer piano jazz at the moment.  No analyzer needed, I presume.  Interestingly, I was fiddling with the FFT eq in Samplitude today, and I do use Digicheck for search and destroy on occasion.  But, my room is not by G. Augsperger...





_andrew
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turtletone

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Re: "Tutorials" about mastering
« Reply #19 on: March 25, 2007, 11:34:42 pm »

Heeeyyyyy, everyones myspace player's spectrum thingy looks the same, I guess they must all sound the same.
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lsimy

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Re: "Tutorials" about mastering
« Reply #20 on: March 26, 2007, 12:11:41 pm »

Vladislavs Korehovs wrote on Sun, 25 March 2007 16:45

Yes yes, and song on your myspace page is perfect example of not being balanced correctly...
Have you trieed to use Spectrum analyser to assist you?
I wonder how many oppinions on this forums are formed by rumors and some sort of overthinking what is bad without having perspective.



Ok back the truck up here a minute. So initially, you are basing an auditory opinion on a clip you heard on myspace which forces a 96k MP3 playback to begin with. Have you even bothered checking out one of Dempsey's CD's ?? naaaaa...why bother with a clean source...AUGH !!
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Vinnie @ Little Simy
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Vladislavs Korehovs

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Re: "Tutorials" about mastering
« Reply #21 on: March 26, 2007, 02:58:59 pm »

Sure...Just pay me Ryanair flight and i will make it more open while we will have identical Hardware...
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Catalin Truta

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Re: "Tutorials" about mastering
« Reply #22 on: March 26, 2007, 05:02:07 pm »

Didn't you see the "tutorial"? It doesn't say about such a thing. By contrary, it says you should cut the highs  Razz

masterhse

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Re: "Tutorials" about mastering
« Reply #23 on: March 26, 2007, 10:03:19 pm »

Catalin Truta wrote on Fri, 23 March 2007 16:33

 http://streamworksaudio.com/?page=products&prodID=9& catID=12

I took the time to watch the sample and I just couldn't believe what the guy "teached". And when I think that some people actually buy these... This is one disadvantage of the internet, everybody can publish anything (only apply to such cases, of course).


Make it stop, please make it stop ...
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Vladislavs Korehovs

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Re: "Tutorials" about mastering
« Reply #24 on: March 27, 2007, 12:33:17 am »

Catalin Truta wrote on Mon, 26 March 2007 16:02

Didn't you see the "tutorial"? It doesn't say about such a thing. By contrary, it says you should cut the highs  Razz


I haven't watchet tutorial fully:))))))
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aivoryuk

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Re: "Tutorials" about mastering
« Reply #25 on: March 27, 2007, 03:31:58 am »

Vladislavs Korehovs wrote on Tue, 27 March 2007 05:33

Catalin Truta wrote on Mon, 26 March 2007 16:02

Didn't you see the "tutorial"? It doesn't say about such a thing. By contrary, it says you should cut the highs  Razz


I haven't watchet tutorial fully:))))))


so how can you say its a good tutorial if you haven't even watched it fully??? or am i just stating the obvious

Rolling Eyes (must stop this rolling my eyes are getting strained)
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masterhse

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Re: "Tutorials" about mastering
« Reply #26 on: March 27, 2007, 09:03:12 am »

aivoryuk wrote on Tue, 27 March 2007 03:31

so how can you say its a good tutorial if you haven't even watched it fully???


I felt "gassy" before watching the demo tutorial but was completely relieved afterward. Therefore I found it to be very beneficial.
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Tom Volpicelli
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aivoryuk

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Re: "Tutorials" about mastering
« Reply #27 on: March 27, 2007, 01:24:23 pm »

masterhse wrote on Tue, 27 March 2007 14:03

aivoryuk wrote on Tue, 27 March 2007 03:31

so how can you say its a good tutorial if you haven't even watched it fully???


I felt "gassy" before watching the demo tutorial but was completely relieved afterward. Therefore I found it to be very beneficial.


what have i told you about those beers???   Laughing
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Vladislavs Korehovs

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Re: "Tutorials" about mastering
« Reply #28 on: March 27, 2007, 03:11:23 pm »

But maybe some folks here can write better tutors?
Probaly most can but dont want to share something personal, and what if others will say it is not good decision or technique? ok better not to write then...
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bblackwood

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Re: "Tutorials" about mastering
« Reply #29 on: March 27, 2007, 03:14:46 pm »

Vladislavs Korehovs wrote on Tue, 27 March 2007 14:11

But maybe some folks here can write better tutors?
Probaly most can but dont want to share something personal, and what if others will say it is not good decision or technique? ok better not to write then...

What do you think this entire forum is about?
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Brad Blackwood
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Vladislavs Korehovs

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Re: "Tutorials" about mastering
« Reply #30 on: March 28, 2007, 02:23:35 am »

Well, WUMP is good:) But publicly available tutor, which costs money, etc. is different thing. If WUMP participation or results will be sold to somebody for adequate money, then it will be trully evaluated, if it contained useful information and how much of it is actually valid.
All this damn music is subjective thing.
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present

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Re: "Tutorials" about mastering
« Reply #31 on: March 28, 2007, 07:37:09 am »

Vladislavs Korehovs wrote on Mon, 26 March 2007 20:58

Sure...Just pay me Ryanair flight and i will make it more open while we will have identical Hardware...


I believe Jonathan Safran Foer himself couldn't have said it better.
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craig boychuk

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Re: "Tutorials" about mastering
« Reply #32 on: June 02, 2007, 03:46:01 pm »

"Please be truthful, but also please be benevolent, please."
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Glenn Bucci

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Re: "Tutorials" about mastering
« Reply #33 on: June 16, 2007, 08:26:29 pm »

bblackwood wrote on Sun, 25 March 2007 09:21

Vladislavs Korehovs wrote on Sun, 25 March 2007 01:43

IT is good tutor. I cannot find anything wrong in provided instructions. I agree what starting mastering with balancing spectrum is MUST have step. I don't think what any of freaks hanging here can reliably do it by ear...


It's horrible advice, and yes, I'm one of the 'freaks' who does not use any spectrum analyzers. Instead I use these things called 'ears'.

Somehow my clients keep coming back...


I like the meters as an aid, but before I turn a knob I ask am I turning it because of what the meter says, or what my ears hear.
1. Ears first
2. meters second.

Of course I don't have a professional setup with proper monitors and room, so I rely on the meters a little more than you guys. With that said, I do have GIK bass traps and some other treatment for the ceiling and early reflections.
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