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Author Topic: Are Readers Abandoning Pitchfork And Gearslutz?  (Read 10583 times)

fossiltooth

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Are Readers Abandoning Pitchfork And Gearslutz?
« on: October 04, 2011, 11:48:54 am »

The short answer: "Kinda looks like it, doesn't it? Hey wow, look at that graph."

The long answer: A few thousand words of investigative journalism. (Don't worry, there are pictures, too.)

Are Pitchfork and Gearslutz Losing Readers?

bigbone

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Re: Are Readers Abandoning Pitchfork And Gearslutz?
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2011, 12:33:54 pm »


You can't reinvent the wheel i guess, some of the topic has been beaten
to death.Even here it's quiet...........
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bigbone

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Re: Are Readers Abandoning Pitchfork And Gearslutz?
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2011, 12:35:22 pm »

.......
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Jim Williams

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Re: Are Readers Abandoning Pitchfork And Gearslutz?
« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2011, 11:10:12 am »

What is Pitchfork? I have one out in my yard.

Yes, it's been a bit quiet here since the big breakoff earlier in the year. How are the ship jumpers doing over at their new little site?

I went there and posted a couple of things and got berated by the "moderators" for having a different "point of view".

I didn't feel the love so I havn't been back.

Meanwhile, seems Gearslutz has more posts in one day than this site has in a month. If it's just a numbers game, they are way out in front.
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DigitMus

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Re: Are Readers Abandoning Pitchfork And Gearslutz?
« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2011, 02:18:48 pm »

It seems like Gearslutz has become the WalMart of recording/audio forums...
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fossiltooth

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Re: Are Readers Abandoning Pitchfork And Gearslutz?
« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2011, 07:58:03 pm »

I think the traffic here on PSW went down significantly because of the migration. There are so many legacy links that point to the old forum, and when would-be users wind up over there, they try to login or register, get frustrated, and never find their way over here. It's kind of an SEO nightmare - but I can think of a few ways to help fix it.

That said, I think activity has gone down not just on GS, but on forums in general. Maybe they've grown to a size where they out-scale their usefulness, and it's due time for a little shrinkage?

I can tell you this much: I've gotten a lot of direct email about this story. Almost more than I can keep up with. One of my sources for next month's "Readers Respond" section is a former moderator from a similarly massive forum. He preferred not to be named, but he did have this to say:

Quote
...(maybe) users realize that once you figure out where to aim the microphones and how to use a compressor, there really isn't that much to talk about, at least on a daily basis.

Amen to that. I think forums are best when they're used as what they were intended to be: An accessory to traditional press outlets, and a place where the underrepresented and the basement tinkerers can gain some traction or find some uncommon and esoteric info.

When we ask forums to act as a substitute for authoritative information, maybe we do them, and ourselves, a pretty big disservice? I don't know - What do you think?

bigbone

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Re: Are Readers Abandoning Pitchfork And Gearslutz?
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2011, 10:36:28 am »


Yes, it's been a bit quiet here since the big breakoff earlier in the year. How are the ship jumpers doing over at their new little site?

I went there and posted a couple of things and got berated by the "moderators" for having a different "point of view".

I didn't feel the love so I havn't been back.





Agree , same for me.
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kats

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Re: Are Readers Abandoning Pitchfork And Gearslutz?
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2011, 10:48:47 am »

Another thing to consider fellas is that these forums have been operating for quite some time and there is a search function. I think most of the gold has already been written.

I also believe that the "home recordist" is a much more educated reader these days. I see more and more posts about recording and mix techniques and less of "this gear versus that". The problem being that techniques are very difficult to teach over the internet. It's just one of those things where you have to be there and you have to practice, and I think the "home recordist" is beginning to get that.
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rocksure

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Re: Are Readers Abandoning Pitchfork And Gearslutz?
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2012, 08:10:23 pm »

I won't be abandoning Gearslutz any time soon. Even though it is filled with done-to-death topics and and a lot of mis-information written by kids in a bedroom, there is still some good stuff that appears on there from time to time, and a database of good knowledge shared over the years. I sign in periodically still, and even post if I think it is worth it.
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Fletcher

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Re: Are Readers Abandoning Pitchfork And Gearslutz?
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2012, 09:20:44 am »

Its kind of interesting to watch... the misinformation there is absolutely staggering!!  What is more interesting to me is that this misinformation, is continually regurgitated to the point where it becomes "common GS knowledge"... and the moderation staff - either from lack of pay, lack of caring, or perhaps their own serious lack of knowledge permit this bullshit to propagate further. 

I reckon its a sign of the times and a bit of a journalistic trend that has become OK [as its a regular practice at "News Corp"].

...and so it goes.

Peace
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CN Fletcher

mwagener wrote on Sat, 11 September 2004 14:33
We are selling emotions, there are no emotions in a grid


"Recording engineers are an arrogant bunch
If you've spent most of your life with a few thousand dollars worth of musicians in the studio, making a decision every second and a half... and you and  they are going to have to live with it for the rest of your lives, you'll get pretty arrogant too.  It takes a certain amount of balls to do that... something around three"
Malcolm Chisholm

rocksure

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Re: Are Readers Abandoning Pitchfork And Gearslutz?
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2012, 02:48:43 am »

Its kind of interesting to watch... the misinformation there is absolutely staggering!!  What is more interesting to me is that this misinformation, is continually regurgitated to the point where it becomes "common GS knowledge"... and the moderation staff - either from lack of pay, lack of caring, or perhaps their own serious lack of knowledge permit this bullshit to propagate further. 

I reckon its a sign of the times and a bit of a journalistic trend that has become OK [as its a regular practice at "News Corp"].

...and so it goes.

Peace

So that's why old hands like you are you still needed over there to clear up the garbage from time to time Fletcher. Not that I have always agreed with you on everything, but at least I respect your opinion, and have to think pretty hard before I ever decide to disagree with you on something because your overall knowledge far exceeds mine!
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Fletcher

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Re: Are Readers Abandoning Pitchfork And Gearslutz?
« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2012, 11:19:44 am »

That's why we have this joint... it makes the "bullshit filtering" a little less time consuming [as there is little to know bullshit myth propagation from newbie's here].

Peace
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CN Fletcher

mwagener wrote on Sat, 11 September 2004 14:33
We are selling emotions, there are no emotions in a grid


"Recording engineers are an arrogant bunch
If you've spent most of your life with a few thousand dollars worth of musicians in the studio, making a decision every second and a half... and you and  they are going to have to live with it for the rest of your lives, you'll get pretty arrogant too.  It takes a certain amount of balls to do that... something around three"
Malcolm Chisholm

John Roberts {JR}

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Re: Are Readers Abandoning Pitchfork And Gearslutz?
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2012, 12:01:18 pm »

Its kind of interesting to watch... the misinformation there is absolutely staggering!!  What is more interesting to me is that this misinformation, is continually regurgitated to the point where it becomes "common GS knowledge"... and the moderation staff - either from lack of pay, lack of caring, or perhaps their own serious lack of knowledge permit this bullshit to propagate further. 

I reckon its a sign of the times and a bit of a journalistic trend that has become OK [as its a regular practice at "News Corp"].

...and so it goes.

Peace

I am not a mod there but I spend too much of my time trying to stamp out BS on at least the geekslutz sub forum. But yes the audiophoolery is persistent. I suspect it is the human condition to gravitate towards mythology to fill the void left by ignorance, when actual knowledge is too much work to attain. 
---
While the perception that news corp is similarly flawed may just reveal personal politics. I find all of the general news outlets similarly flawed, just with different biases based on appealing to their perceived audiences. But lets not stray into politics here, this is just business for the news organizations trying to sell ads, and I suspect for the sundry web fora too.

JR
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Fletcher

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Re: Are Readers Abandoning Pitchfork And Gearslutz?
« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2012, 12:12:03 pm »

I suspect it is the human condition to gravitate towards mythology to fill the void left by ignorance, when actual knowledge is too much work to attain.

Uh-oh... we're on the boarder of discussing "organized religion"... danger Wil Robinson - danger - danger!!
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CN Fletcher

mwagener wrote on Sat, 11 September 2004 14:33
We are selling emotions, there are no emotions in a grid


"Recording engineers are an arrogant bunch
If you've spent most of your life with a few thousand dollars worth of musicians in the studio, making a decision every second and a half... and you and  they are going to have to live with it for the rest of your lives, you'll get pretty arrogant too.  It takes a certain amount of balls to do that... something around three"
Malcolm Chisholm

John Roberts {JR}

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Re: Are Readers Abandoning Pitchfork And Gearslutz?
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2012, 02:05:16 pm »

Who me?  Never.....  ::) 

Dat ist verboten.

JR
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Plush

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Re: Are Readers Abandoning Pitchfork And Gearslutz?
« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2012, 07:36:14 pm »

I feel that the data presented by Mr. fossiltooth does really reflect what is happening at GS. I was particularly struck by the assertion that the demographic at GS is now centered on 18-24 year old males. My own analysis, based on their grammar usage, piss poor etiquette, flaring rage attacks and also the shoe-gazer "bored" response, is that that age group is now dominant on GS.

I made up the term, "Gearslutz fact."  This is a mistaken notion, a lie or complete misinformation that has been regurgitated over and over on GS and is now taken as an actual fact or as juried good advice. It's a real joke.

Whenever I get a warning from Jules, I remind him that I get hundreds of PM messages and I respond to these and try help those who write to me asking for advice or opinion. I remind him that I am helping people off of the forum as well as posting on GS. 

One of the new complaints from Jules is "newbie pressure." This occurs when an experienced engineer calls out a newbie for posting trash, inaccurate trash, junk opinion, made up opinion, high horse behavior etc. If you call someone out for being ignorant, you have set yourself up for a possible infraction.

With the article and statistics cited by Mr. fossiltooth, we can certainly see WHY Jules might be sensitive to chasing newbie posters / members out the door.

best from Chicago,

Plush 
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Fletcher

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Re: Are Readers Abandoning Pitchfork And Gearslutz?
« Reply #16 on: January 30, 2012, 08:39:31 am »

Dooood --- its about "number of views" not "quality of content"... this is about "quality of content" and its half a ghost town.

As HL Menken once said, "no one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public"... Jules, an American who relocated to the UK has taken Menken's principle global.  Interestingly, I wonder what would happen if those with 1/2 a clue stopped posting there?  Oh... yeah... it would turn into the Harmony Central forums... that's what would happen.

Shoot me
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CN Fletcher

mwagener wrote on Sat, 11 September 2004 14:33
We are selling emotions, there are no emotions in a grid


"Recording engineers are an arrogant bunch
If you've spent most of your life with a few thousand dollars worth of musicians in the studio, making a decision every second and a half... and you and  they are going to have to live with it for the rest of your lives, you'll get pretty arrogant too.  It takes a certain amount of balls to do that... something around three"
Malcolm Chisholm

rocksure

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Re: Are Readers Abandoning Pitchfork And Gearslutz?
« Reply #17 on: January 31, 2012, 05:20:48 pm »

Whenever I get a warning from Jules, I remind him that I get hundreds of PM messages and I respond to these and try help those who write to me asking for advice or opinion. I remind him that I am helping people off of the forum as well as posting on GS. 

One of the new complaints from Jules is "newbie pressure." This occurs when an experienced engineer calls out a newbie for posting trash, inaccurate trash, junk opinion, made up opinion, high horse behavior etc. If you call someone out for being ignorant, you have set yourself up for a possible infraction.

With the article and statistics cited by Mr. fossiltooth, we can certainly see WHY Jules might be sensitive to chasing newbie posters / members out the door.

best from Chicago,

Plush


I think it is important that experienced engineers do point out to new posters when what they say is trash, and to show up mis-information for what it is on GS. I guess though that it's how it's done that is important. If someone goes in all guns blazing and trashes everyone else's opinions in an arrogant way, that isn't really helping anyone. But if facts are pointed out in a diplomatic but self assured way, it is more likely to be listened to. For example, I really like the way Geoff Tanner has gone about correcting the mis-information on Neve gear that often has come up over the years. He sets people straight, but never in a condescending way.
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: Are Readers Abandoning Pitchfork And Gearslutz?
« Reply #18 on: February 01, 2012, 10:32:26 am »

I used to write a column called "Audio Mythology" back in the '80s and it seems a lot of the same myths are still with us (plus a few new ones associated with more recent technology).

There is a fraction of the public that rejects objective scientific method, and pursues audio as some mystical unexplored world that the experts either don't really understand, or are lying about. At the same time merchandisers profit from promoting vague misinformation, because that's how they differentiate their otherwise similar products from all the others, as worthy of purchase. 

Finally it seems that the web upgrade (?) here could have been handled a little better. Correctly or not, members of any community feel like they deserve a say (whether they do or not).  The recent server warnings about exceeding page frequency for the banner ads are a reminder of the current state of things. Many people get their human contact from social media these days so have drifted away from forums that are less rewarding to participate on. 

or not...

JR
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Fletcher

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Re: Are Readers Abandoning Pitchfork And Gearslutz?
« Reply #19 on: February 01, 2012, 03:29:22 pm »

it seems that the web upgrade (?) here could have been handled a little better. Correctly or not, members of any community feel like they deserve a say (whether they do or not). 

I would have settled for the moderators / administrators getting some warning  :o ... but it is what it is and some of us are still here.
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CN Fletcher

mwagener wrote on Sat, 11 September 2004 14:33
We are selling emotions, there are no emotions in a grid


"Recording engineers are an arrogant bunch
If you've spent most of your life with a few thousand dollars worth of musicians in the studio, making a decision every second and a half... and you and  they are going to have to live with it for the rest of your lives, you'll get pretty arrogant too.  It takes a certain amount of balls to do that... something around three"
Malcolm Chisholm

mfassett

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Re: Are Readers Abandoning Pitchfork And Gearslutz?
« Reply #20 on: February 08, 2012, 02:18:49 pm »

I think what makes Gearslutz difficult are a few things:

- Newbies who are disrespectful
- The established personalities who are overbearing "know-it-all" types
- The strange and somewhat arbitrary rules
- The "conventional knowledge" that flows that is just accepted and becomes like an internet meme.   

I am not surprised that Gearslutz is losing (or should I write "loosing" like everyone at gearslutz?) viewers.  That is not just because I'm banned there either.   :o
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Fletcher

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Re: Are Readers Abandoning Pitchfork And Gearslutz?
« Reply #21 on: February 09, 2012, 11:18:42 am »

Hey - whatever... the cool thing about this set of boards is that while "newbies" are totally welcome - they can't be anonymous so the chucklehead and pimp factor goes down quite a bit. 

It is what it is...
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CN Fletcher

mwagener wrote on Sat, 11 September 2004 14:33
We are selling emotions, there are no emotions in a grid


"Recording engineers are an arrogant bunch
If you've spent most of your life with a few thousand dollars worth of musicians in the studio, making a decision every second and a half... and you and  they are going to have to live with it for the rest of your lives, you'll get pretty arrogant too.  It takes a certain amount of balls to do that... something around three"
Malcolm Chisholm
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