Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[j.hall]

Adam Miller wrote on Thu, 01 March 2007 10:58

j.hall wrote on Thu, 01 March 2007 04:01 i feels like you pushed up the faders, got a good blend going, threw some effects at it and walked away.   Well, I can't argue too much with that assessment! I thought the printed sounds were of sufficiently high quality and performed well enough not to warrant too much dicking around. I could have gone to town with automation and ear candy, but at a certain point i think that becomes distracting, and doesn't really fit with the genre. Just my tuppence worth- thanks to all for their comments.

fair enough, and i don't disagree at all.

[j.hall]

M Carter wrote on Thu, 01 March 2007 13:44

@ Recalls I admittedly didn't really put enough in to the mix because of other pressing life matters.  After taking J's advice and running with it, I'm already much happier with the results.  I appreciate the lack of technical speak in the reply in lieu of attempting to convey the approach taken in the mix. back to the work grind.... So far my favorite mixes are J's, Adam's and Nizzle's.  So far though none of the mixes are impressive as far as the guitars go, and I kind of feel like it's mostly because of the source material, meaning the player.  It just doesn't have any kind of punk rock swag to it.

i need to add this to the rules thread.

early on in the IMP experience people asked if they could do recalls.  the answer was first no.  then i thought about it and made this rule, which seems to work well.

the past few IMPs i've only reviewed a few mixes (due to time).  i really dug into them and tried to meet each mixer where they were, and try to help them find a new way of thinking, or new technique they could easily adapt into their work flow.

at that, i decided if it's worthy, i'd ask for a recall. mainly so i could hear how well my comments went over.  the rule is this.

i'm the only one that can request a recall, AND, who ever i ask has the choice to do it or not do it.  that way, no one is stepping on any one elses schedule and work flow.  if i'm working for free, there ain't recalls.....and i refuse to treat people any differently then i want to be.

so.......for you, if you want to upload a recall, i'd love to hear it.

i'm not done reviewing, and i'm far from done with this IMP, but i'd love to hear where you can take this.

i want to dig in with ATOR as well, but he has yet to accept.....which again, is completely up to him.

[ATOR]

j.hall wrote on Thu, 01 March 2007 05:21

ATOR wrote on Wed, 28 February 2007 16:23 Actually I was going for a big direct hardpounding rock track with some fx here and there to have a change of scenery But I couldn't get there. As if I was trying to blow up a balloon with a big hole in it, the more I did the weaker it started to sound. I'd still like to make this a powerful sounding mix but right now I don't have a clue how to get there. wanna do some recalls?

I had already reserved some time next week to try and get it right. Biggest hurdle for me is getting great drums and a good kick/bass relationship. I'll see where I end up when I start with overheads like you described.

[Nizzle]

M Carter wrote:

"so Tom -

done all in the box?

getting levels up is where I have the most problems. do you start with the limiter across the 2 bus, just to keep overages under control? Or do you slap that across later?

Matt"


This mix was done all ITB. Specifically 12" Powerbook w/ Headphones.

the L2 limiter is the last thing on the 2 buss. Just to be clear - it is used solely as a way to raise level as transparently as possible. There is no gain reduction. I choose to do this when I submit mixes for approval as my mixes are very low in level(because the mix buss in my rig sounds better when not driven hard). Although I deliver my mixes to the ME at this low level, I find that it is too low for playback on a consumer device...I don't care for the way audio sounds when it is not engaging the amplifier of the playback device enough - my work around is to do a "pre-master
" Which simply entails raising the overall level WITHOUT any dynamic gain reduction.

best,

-t

[Nizzle]

ATOR wrote on Thu, 01 March 2007 20:46

Here we go, hold on to your seats   Nizzle This is a mastering engineers nightmare. Blasted to oblivion. Too bad ‘cause there might be a good mix underneath.

I assure you I would not submit a mix to an ME at this level(dB), however my mix sounds the same whether played back at the level I posted or if you were to hear the mix without the Limiter(which is engaged in such a way that it is merely raising the overall level WITHOUT any gain reduction).

So sadly, I can assure you there WOULDN"T be a "good mix underneath" so far as your concerned.....We all have our different tastes - that's what makes Music so F'n great.

best,

-t  

[M Carter]

J -

AH, gotcha.  I was thinking the 'wanna do recalls' comment was a general thing.  

I'd definitely be interested to hear what you'd think if i did a recall though.  When's the deadline?  I'm kind of in the middle of an indie hip hop record that's been kicking my ass due to poor production (guys sampling from like... mp3's.... lots of sample rechopping from better sources, etc)... and having the office gig @ Legacy makes time management a must for any outside endeavors.  Blah blah blah, excuses aside, I couldn't get it done by like, tomorrow or anything, but I could probably make something happen over the weekend.  would that fly ?

Matt

[Nizzle]

j.hall wrote on Thu, 01 March 2007 20:49

Nizzle wrote on Thu, 01 March 2007 10:16 JHall - Sounds like a "quick mix" done by someone who knows what they're doing. BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!  well, minus the "knows what they're doing" part.

HA!

[M Carter]

tom -

what I meant by 'start with the L2' was, do you put it on the mix before you even start mixing, to compensate for the levels and potentially save yourself some headroom?

Matt

[Nizzle]

M Carter wrote on Thu, 01 March 2007 21:20

tom - what I meant by 'start with the L2' was, do you put it on the mix before you even start mixing, to compensate for the levels and potentially save yourself some headroom? Matt

Definitely not...at the very end right before I render the mix. I need to be able to "see" how I'm hitting the master buss at all times. During the course of a mix - I'll routinely have to do a "global level attenuation" so as to keep my mix buss level where I like it.

I do however strap on the Tape Emulater soon after the mix begins and soon after that I bring the 2 buss compressor into the mix. I usually don't add the "program EQ" until the end of the mix.
The order of plugins(as the audio hits them) is
Tape Emulator
Program EQ
Compressor
Brick Wall(only when renderring mixes for the artisst to sign off on and NOT when creating the FINAL MIX which will be delivered to the ME.

best,

-t

[M Carter]

Yeah, I go through the same thing with levels and headroom.  I'm doing most of my mixing ITB for the fact that none of my indie clients can afford going to a real room.   It's definitely a different skill set than mixing on a desk.  

I'm a little skeptical of tape bus plug ins though.  

excuse me for hijacking the thread.

[j.hall]

Chris J

i haven't been reading any other reviews but those about my mix.  this way i stay neutral.

ok.....you've gotten A LOT better.  i can hear the biggest improvements in your work over the past few IMPs.

a few things to consider.  the kick needs more bottom, but what you did to the upper mids is reallygreat considering the rest of the aesthic in your mix.  this mix is the only one i've heard thus far that has a dry vocal that works.  it's perhaps a touch too loud....but it feels pretty good to me.  the snare sounds good but is too loud.  remember, in a rock mix the kit needs to be balanced.  the kick and snare and toms all need to be about the same level.  your snare matches your vocal nicely.  i thnk over all it could be a touch wider (stereo field).  one thing i do dig a lot is the pumping off the kick drum to the rest of the kit.  the mix seems unaffected by it.  but for a split moment each kick hits actually cuts out the cymbals......i have some distortion boxes that do with when they get over loaded with bottom, and i LOVE that in certain places.

fantomas

there is some thing popping out in the vocal in the upper mids.  it isn't bad (might be verb or whatever).  however, your lead vocal is all that matters to the common public.  so, to pick on you for a minute.......don't stop working the lead vocal till it's smooth as glass.  i don't think you were aggressive enough with your compressor, but you need to EQ ahead of your comp and use your EQ to smooth out what the comp doesn't.  it sounds weird, i know, but trust me......your EQ will infact become a dynamic tool.

your snare seems soft to me, but really not bad.  overall, this feels like a rough mix with the vocal fairly up.  the more i listen to this song the more i'm agreeing with wo ever keeps saying the guitars aren't cutting it.  your guitars are a bit quiet, but honestly, i'm just not digging them anymore......

Jim Dier

holy arena batman.....  i would expect this from the band sound checking at the local arena before a gig.....not their album mix.  listening through the FX, the mix is pretty good.  back al the effects WAY down and see if you dig it.  also, those toms need to sustain more.  slow attack, fast release compressor, get them to rig more and feel larger then life.  see if that makes your drums feel bigger then they are.....sometimes it's just that simple.  your kick is getting lost in the bigger parts.  turn it up and get some point on it (5k maybe)  i hope your traveling was good....welcome back....HA

Will F
minus the delay, i love the "chimey" character you brought out in the guitar lead in the verses.  the vocal isn't dominating, that's bad.  you even set your drums up to support the vocal, but didn't deliver.  the toms are too far back....let them sit at the same table with the kick and snare......

to me, it sounds like you are unsure of what to do with vocal compression.  am i right?  i'll give you some ideas if you want them.

AnonymousUser

this is my favorite drum sound.  i want a touch more top end in that snare. and more bottom int he kick, but over all, i think this drum sounds NAILS IT.  to focus on that for a minute.......and i've talked about it before, you want the snare to mathc the vocals high end.  it's so close it's bugging me.....but not that bad.

i like how you really work the dynamics.  those quiet parts before the chorus really are quiet, and they feel almost pretty.......that's cool.

anything i would do to this mix would be very minimal and nit picking.  the thwacky kind of vibe is killer.  i think this mix nails the vibe the song needs.  great compression on the lead vocal, and overall.

nicely done

Nick T

intro is interesting.....at least it's different, not sure it serves much of a purpose, but that's not up to me.  the top end of your mix is making my filling rattle out.  12.5k and up......what is going on with the artifacts on the kick drum?

your bass guitar tone fits your drums and vocal nicely.  sorry man, i can't take anymore of that top end.  the vocal is so close minus this top end thing......

3 foot 6

am i hearing playback through the phone?  despite that, i kinda like this mix.  after hearing the song 10 thousand times, it's refreshing to hear something this different that the mixer fully commited to.  i think you could easy up the lead vocal filtering, and perhaps get some really deep subs going on withthe bass and kick......that filtered vocal starting to get to me.

can you tell me why you went this route, or did you just do it with out much thought?  i hope you planned it, cause i want to know what you were thinking (not in a bad way, ina good way.....i really want to know)

spoon

based on our tongue and cheek back and forth, i really expected to hear your best steve albini here.  not the case at all.  the bass guitar is freaking me out a little bit.....in a good way.  man it's aggressive....NICE.  i think you could go bigger on the toms...the kick is really hitting well.....why not match it with the floor tom?

nice mix....i like it.  i just think you could get those drums more amped up then they are and i'd be sold.

Pauly D
you should have submitted

holy crap i reviewed all the mixes

[AnonymousUser]

j.hall wrote on Thu, 01 March 2007 15:43

AnonymousUser you took the time to mix the track and hit the deadline and you couldn't register an account???????  i'd love to talk about this mix for a lot of reasons, but it's really unfair to the other posters (a few who regiestered accounts JUST to submit for IMP10)

Errr...I'm not sure what you mean J.  My user account IS AnonymousUser.  While I do regularly read this board, I didn't have an account because I don't tend to add my input to any threads for a lot of reasons.  I created an account just to submit to IMP10.  

I like the idea and intent behind IMP and I really enjoyed participating and listening to everyone's mixes.  There are a ton of good ideas in a lot of them.

I like the song that was mixed and would probably buy the album it appeared on.  I haven't had a chance to follow the myspace link Rankus posted yet...

I am interested in your thoughts on my mix J.

[bblackwood]

AnonymousUser wrote on Thu, 01 March 2007 15:54

j.hall wrote on Thu, 01 March 2007 15:43 AnonymousUser you took the time to mix the track and hit the deadline and you couldn't register an account???????  i'd love to talk about this mix for a lot of reasons, but it's really unfair to the other posters (a few who regiestered accounts JUST to submit for IMP10) Errr...I'm not sure what you mean J.  My user account IS AnonymousUser.  While I do regularly read this board, I didn't have an account because I don't tend to add my input to any threads for a lot of reasons.  I created an account just to submit to IMP10.   I like the idea and intent behind IMP and I really enjoyed participating and listening to everyone's mixes.  There are a ton of good ideas in a lot of them. I like the song that was mixed and would probably buy the album it appeared on.  I haven't had a chance to follow the myspace link Rankus posted yet... I am interested in your thoughts on my mix J.

*points at J and laughs*

[j.hall]

AnonymousUser wrote on Thu, 01 March 2007 15:54

Errr...I'm not sure what you mean J.  My user account IS AnonymousUser.  While I do regularly read this board, I didn't have an account because I don't tend to add my input to any threads for a lot of reasons.  I created an account just to submit to IMP10.   I like the idea and intent behind IMP and I really enjoyed participating and listening to everyone's mixes.  There are a ton of good ideas in a lot of them. I like the song that was mixed and would probably buy the album it appeared on.  I haven't had a chance to follow the myspace link Rankus posted yet... I am interested in your thoughts on my mix J.

 HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

i'm on the phone with Brad Blackwood who's howling laughing, for the life of me, i couldn't figure out how you posted.........J. Hall is  GENIUS

[jdier]

j.hall wrote on Thu, 01 March 2007 15:43

Jim Dier holy arena batman.....  i would expect this from the band sound checking at the local arena before a gig.....not their album mix.  listening through the FX, the mix is pretty good.  back al the effects WAY down and see if you dig it.  also, those toms need to sustain more.  slow attack, fast release compressor, get them to rig more and feel larger then life.  see if that makes your drums feel bigger then they are.....sometimes it's just that simple.  your kick is getting lost in the bigger parts.  turn it up and get some point on it (5k maybe)  i hope your traveling was good....welcome back....HA

J, and everyone else who provided some feedback for me... THANKS a million.  I am just starting to work on some of my first mixes and struggling to learn more about how compressors work.

This has to be the best learning experience ever for me.  I travel quite a bit, so it is tough for me to get back at it and rework stuff but I really appreciate the comments and suggestions.

The advise on the toms is perfect.  It was one of the things that I really struggled with.

Regarding the big reverb on the snare, I have been called out for making mixes too dry, so I wanted to see if I could go the other direction.  I obviously went overboard.

As I was running out of time at the end, I ran the mix through wavelab and compressed it to bring up the volume... I think this exagerated the verbs a bit.

Again, thanks a million for all the comments and help.

Can anyone give me some guidance on how to make a mix PUMP or BREATH?  I struggle to hear it in the mixes you all did and I definately cannot get it to happen on my mixes.  I guess I am curious which instruments you are applying this to, how you route them, and what the approximate settings are that you use on your compressors.  I do not have the Waves stuff as it is out of my budget, but I would imagine if I was smarter or more experienced that I could achieve it with what I do have here.

Thanks to all!