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Author Topic: IMP10 discussion thread  (Read 22368 times)

j.hall

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Re: IMP10 reviews (spoon)
« Reply #45 on: February 28, 2007, 11:26:52 pm »

spoon wrote on Wed, 28 February 2007 16:44



JHall -
You like that pumping thing.  I think it was present on all the IMPs I have been apart of.  Not my bag, sounds
too much like modern radio music.  The mix feels a bit muddy (maybe guitar volumes) in the low end.  
I like the vocal treatments as well as the "leads" treatments.



what is it with all you chicago guys????????

seriously, every one i know from chicago (xonlocust aside) is this big compression hater.......

i'm honestly curious.......i can't for the life of me figure out whay engineer from chicago are so against compression.

every time in come up there assistants and other engineers say the same thing, "you sure you want to use that 1176 like that?"

YES, I"M F'ING SURE

if you saw me cut drums you'd probably have a heart attack right then and there.
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grantis

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Re: IMP10 discussion thread
« Reply #46 on: March 01, 2007, 12:32:08 am »

j, thanks for the comments.  I NEED MORE IMPS!!!! hahahahaha.  i can see the validity in all your comments.

i ran all the fx on the vox through aux channels, and blended.  the distorted vox was really cranked on the high end though, so i think i know what you mean.

and i seem to have a bad habit of mixing guitars too far back.  it seems to be a recurring problem, which is odd because i'm a freakin guitar player.  isn't it supposed to go the other way???? Smile haha

NIZZLE

i dig your mix!  couple of questions.

1. how did you treat your drums? specifically the snare and the overheads/rooms?  did you use samples?  did you replace or blend?  what about the toms?

2. how did you treat the rhythm guitar?

thanks!

grant
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Grant Craig
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M Carter

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Re: IMP10 discussion thread
« Reply #47 on: March 01, 2007, 12:35:18 am »

J - advice taken to heart  (you may be right about the meter watching, but I avoid EQ graphs like the plague).

did you drink a pot of coffee before replying with all that?  those were some of the more passionate replies I've seen from you.

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Matt Carter
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spoon

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Re: IMP10 reviews (spoon)
« Reply #48 on: March 01, 2007, 12:55:52 am »

j.hall wrote on Wed, 28 February 2007 22:26


what is it with all you chicago guys????????

seriously, every one i know from chicago (xonlocust aside) is this big compression hater.......

i'm honestly curious.......i can't for the life of me figure out whay engineer from chicago are so against compression.

every time in come up there assistants and other engineers say the same thing, "you sure you want to use that 1176 like that?"

YES, I"M F'ING SURE

if you saw me cut drums you'd probably have a heart attack right then and there.


That is funny.  I dunno.  I love compression...really I do.
I smash tons of things...really...I just dont have any examples now.

For most songs I prefer to have them breath on their own rather than make them breath...not that some things cant/shouldnt have life breathed into them...

I am just not a fan of an entire track pumping (just me).  The radio does that too.  It creates a false feeling of my ears compressing (you know when the rock show is dangerously loud) which is probably why I am not into that.

Sometimes I cut drums on nuke, but I am doing it to a mult(s) so I can keep clean and dirty versions.

I would think Chicago would have plenty of AEs into that sort of thing (Aside from Albini and his crew).

I dont get out much...Cheers J.


David
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spoon

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Re: IMP10 discussion thread
« Reply #49 on: March 01, 2007, 01:01:15 am »

grant richard wrote on Wed, 28 February 2007 20:05

spoon,
thanks for the comments.  i trying to understand why you say the compression i used makes the drums sound small.  i think if anything, the kick drum should come up in my mix after listening to it again...that mix is huuuuge



The compression is killing the attack on the snare so that when it hits, the impact is reduced.
When the toms come in, they sound like they were not routed to the compressor/limiter in that they explode.

Quote:


i listened to yours, and i'm thinking...it could use a touch (meaning...a lot) more compression on the overheads/room mics.  the snare kind of sits back in the mix a bit, and doesn't really grab me from the get-go.  the bass seems to lack punch as well.

i liked how the lead lines sound at the end though....very tasty!



The lack of heavy compression is by design (there is some on it, I assure you).  I prefer it that way...the snare, yeah it is lower.  I think it is in response to the 80s, where the snare seemed like the loudest thing in the song.  I am not a fan, so I think it shapes the way I mix.

Thanks for the comments.

Regards,
David
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M Carter

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Re: IMP10 discussion thread
« Reply #50 on: March 01, 2007, 01:14:32 am »

did somebody say recalls?
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Matt Carter
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scottoliphant

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Re: IMP10 discussion thread
« Reply #51 on: March 01, 2007, 02:09:18 am »

we have to respect spoon for his "style" of mixing. our personal flavor comes out over time. J (and others) love compression! it's not a bad thing, just his style, others don't. Some things can be right, or wrong, other things are totally subjective. just because a track doesn't have the snot squeezed out of it, doesn't mean it can't work in a different way. It's actually kind of nice listening to someones take that didn't immediately go for the comp. balances things out. Can a compression lover make a track really hum along without heavy comp, and vice versa? good thing to keep in mind

grantis

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Re: IMP10 discussion thread
« Reply #52 on: March 01, 2007, 02:35:49 am »

i hear that.  i'm having a hard time making any mix 'hum' with heavy comp so maybe i'll try backing off and see what happens with the next imp

my ears are new to this indie rock thing
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Grant Craig
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Tom C

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Re: IMP10 discussion thread
« Reply #53 on: March 01, 2007, 05:04:43 am »

j.hall wrote on Thu, 01 March 2007 05:18

Tom C, you asked.....and i hope i can communicate this well.
[...]
did that help at all?


That was perfect, exactly what I wanted to hear.
In internot forums you most often hear 'use this gear or that
setting and bla bla' and the general approach, the philosophy,
the thinking, the general principle gets lost in the communication.

Helps a ton more than any 'I use reverb XY' statement ever could.

2 thumbs up for you!

Tom

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Tom

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Red Tape

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Re: IMP10 discussion thread
« Reply #54 on: March 01, 2007, 06:03:50 am »

rankus wrote on Wed, 28 February 2007 19:17

Red Tape wrote on Wed, 28 February 2007 05:54

By the way, any tracking info available for this tune?
What mics where and so on?


Hi Red,

Time to come forwards I suppose...




Where were the overheads and royer rooms placed?
Was that an edit at 0:48 on the bass di - I hear a click/pop thing there.
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NelsonL

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Re: IMP10 discussion thread
« Reply #55 on: March 01, 2007, 11:09:52 am »

Spoon, thanks for the comments. I'm actually not sure if I made the deadline.

J-- my mix is on the server as you know, but I'm not clear on whether I made the deadline or not because I didn't get a chance to post in the submission thread on Tuesday.

What's the rule?
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Nizzle

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Re: IMP10 discussion thread
« Reply #56 on: March 01, 2007, 11:16:19 am »

You know - I haven't taken the time in past IMPS to write up my thoughts on  everyone's mix and that's lame seeing as alot of you take the time to do it.

So - here are my thoughts. Please assume that when I write a crtique in the definitive sense - I'm really speaking from my opinion only and not presuming my sensabilities are "the truth" rather just my opinion.

best.

-t


JHall - Sonically, it sounds well balanced. Not a whole lot of vibe going on.....The use of the delay vox in the pre-chorus is a little distracting for me....the arpeggio gtr sound is pretty boring on it's own - I think you could have vibed it out to make it cooler sounding. Really like the spooky gtr sound in the verse after the 1st chorus. Overall - this is a well balanced, good sounding mix that could have used some more vibe...Sounds like a "quick mix" done by someone who knows what they're doing.

iCombs - Low end is out of control - it needs to be reeled in. Vox treatment is lacking...Remember - a "dry vocal" is rarely totally dry - a 65ms delay with a low pass filter just barely mixed in will do wonders for a boring vocal sound AND still be percieved as dry to the listener....Drums - need some excitement...compression, maybe room sound - something is needed....generally speaking the levels of the tracks are balanced nicely, but the balance of frequenciees in the mix aren't...Overall - kind of a boring mix.

Scott Oliphant - Too much Mids information(as well as bottom mic)  on the snare....Vox are abit loud for this style of music....Kinda garagey sounding - which is appealing to me even if I think  it isn't totally appropriate for this style of music...Generally - mix needs some vibe.

Rankus - One of the few mixes that got the Bass gtr "right"(IMO). the bass track had lots of low end but sorely lacked mids definition - the solution was to enhance the 700-900hz area - nice choice. Chorus falsetto Harm vox level is skewed...first half is too loud and second half isn't loud enough....Arpeggio gtr needs some love....Generally speaking - It's my opinion that this is the first mix I've heard so far that is convincing and believable. nice job.

ATOR - Intro - interesting but not serving the song(IMO). Drums are dark and not bringing the rock as this style of music requires....I like the Vox treatment....the Toms sound way to dead, way too loud, and I can hear the gating(whether it be manual or with a plug)....Like the reverse gtr treatment as well as the "spooky gtr" after the 1st chorus....don't love the same effect on the arpeggio gtrs....The balance between the cymbals and drums is out of whack....this mix doesn't really work for me.


Singsing - the subs need to be tamed...Intro arpeggio gtr is too loud in the beginning and goes away so abruptly.....Re-entrance of the arp gtr is way too loud. Vox treatment is pretty cool....Vox harmonies are kind of missing.  There is definitely some phase issues with the snare - the top and bottom mic were in phase, but something you did(probably plug-in wise) messed with the phase....The kick isn't doing it's job. This mix is close to working - just needs some tweaking....

Maxim - Low end is out of whack....the delay arpeggio gtr is creating a mino second interval that's pretty dissonant...not working for me, but may work to someone elses sensability.....kick has zero low end...it was traccked with very little, but some gratuitous EQ can take care of that..... The drums are not rocking in any way - very wimpy and idiomatically innapropriate for me. Vox sound nice, but are at karaoke levels....i like the drop out of the the band in the prechorus - good idea. Vocals are just wy too loud and the music has no sack....this mix isn't working for me.

Redtape - Where's the kick drum? snare sounds nice. Toms aren't doing anything. The drums need some sack(comp/ EQ/Volume)...Vocals are too loud...There is very little rock going on....the mix is lacking vibe....

TomC - Drums are cloudy sounding - very little definition or attack....Arpeggio gtr sound is too loud and safe sounding...I like the vox effects, but they are too loud for me.....Too much DI in the Bass track....This mix isn't working for me.

Henchman - Low end needs to put in check. Too much bottom snare mic(too much high end)...Vox sound nice. Appegio gtr can use some vibe....kick needs some subs.  I like the rhythm gtr sound and level. The Toms might be a touch too loud....This mix is very close to working for me...

Greg  Dixon - Low end needs to be tamed. Drums are kind of week sounding(although the levels are right) the treatment lacks power and definition. Arpeggio gtr sound could be cooler. I like the Rhythm gtrs, although I think you may have EQ's the upper mids too much. Vox are nice but I think the effecs are too heavy handed with reagrds to volume. The Bass has too muxh high end for me. Idiomatically speaking, that "String Flap" high end is appropriate for a band like Korn, but not necessarilly for this style (QOTSA) of music. Consider using a low pass filter staring at 3k and see if you like it. Vox aren't sitting in the mix well...they are abit too on top for me.

AdamMiller - Musically  - this one works for me. The vocal do not....too heavy handed on the vox effects...the drums are pretty good, but they aren't rocking enough for my taste - but that may be just a taste thing - I think this mix is almost successful - just tweak the vox abit.

Grant Richard - The snare drum is getting obliterated with squash....the drums are too compressed...try using some parallel compression by blending in an uncompressed mix of the drums(try it with the snare track too) Low end needs to be put in check.... Vocals are totally pinched and there is a high end distorto-sheen that hurts me. The hard panning of the toms kinda bums me out....Vox effect choices don't make sense to me.....I think if you pull back on the compression and vox effects you may have something there. I like the gr sound BUT they seem to bee overmodulating in the high end.

M Carter  - Where's the kick drum? Drums need some work - the snare reverb seems innapropriate  for this style of music.....the levels seem way out of wack(listen to the vamp between the 1st chorus and 2nd verse) Generally speaking - this mix lacks any power or command of my attention....this one isn't working for me.

Chris J  - Whoa. What's going on with the kick drum? It's way too loud, but more importantly it's timing has been purposefully or mistakenly moved way ahead of the beat...The groove is completely destroyed...the gtrs need to be WAY louder. The vox are at Karaoke level. Where's the reverse gtr in the vamp between the 1st chorus and 2nd verse? This mix isn't working at all for me.

Fantomas - Kinda wimpy sounding ffom the get go. The vox seem to loud, but other than that the levels are pretty good. I would focus on figuring out how to get more power out of the drums...they are pretty weak sounding. Time stat trying some more"extreme" things(ie: drum bus comression, more aggressive EQ...) Sounds very safe and kinda boring.

Will F - Pretty goof from the get go. I don't care for the effect on the arpeggio gtr and I think it is way too loud...The drums could use some more sack(the snare seems too loud in relation to the rest of the kit)....the Vox arent quite right....the falsetto harmoniy vox in the choruses are not balanced properly.....Lead Vox effects are too heavy handed....this mix needs some tweaking.

Anonymous - The  levels sound right. Sonically it seems balanced...I'm not  a fan of the arrangement choices....all of the elements seem to be disconnected...the hard panning of the gtrs isn't working for me....Overaall - kinda sounds wimpy and disconnected.

Nick T - Drums are weird sounding and seem to be heavy on the right channel. Snare drum needs some power....Vox aren't doing anything for me...Overall lack of vibe.

Spoon - Low end is out of balance. Snare drum has too much bottom mic...Drums lack power. Vox effect doesn't seem right for this style of music. Balance of the traccks seem right with exception to the bvox(too loud for me)...This one is on the right track...just lacking sack in the drums and overall vibe.


Nice work everyone.

-t
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Adam Miller

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Re: IMP10 discussion thread
« Reply #57 on: March 01, 2007, 11:52:07 am »

chrisj wrote on Wed, 28 February 2007 19:10

 Okay, don't kill me for this- I'm thinking Def Leppard here, a bit. Something about how neatly everything is laid out. Some people puke over Def Leppard, but it IS Mutt Lange after all.



Boy, are you gonna get a whupping....




...I kid, I kid! Can't say I had Def Leppard in mind when I mixed it, but I'll take that as a big complement. Now if only I could shift 10 million units with that sound...
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Adam Miller

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Re: IMP10 discussion thread
« Reply #58 on: March 01, 2007, 11:58:02 am »

j.hall wrote on Thu, 01 March 2007 04:01


i feels like you pushed up the faders, got a good blend going, threw some effects at it and walked away.  


Well, I can't argue too much with that assessment! I thought the printed sounds were of sufficiently high quality and performed well enough not to warrant too much dicking around. I could have gone to town with automation and ear candy, but at a certain point i think that becomes distracting, and doesn't really fit with the genre.

Just my tuppence worth- thanks to all for their comments.
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NickT

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Re: IMP10 discussion thread
« Reply #59 on: March 01, 2007, 12:15:17 pm »

I thought I would give some quick "opinions". That is all they are.

TIA for any comments on my mix.

Nick

ChrisJ - The kick throws me a little. Vox sound good. I liked the RAT in the verse two  into.

Maxim - Overall a good mix. I liked the use of the lead tracks. Vox lose a little focus for me.

M Carter - Like the Intro. Verb on the snare and vox is heavier than I like. The verb tends to ring. Nice energy in the chorus.

Adam Miller - Chorus vox get lost. Song does have good energy. Phat sound!

MacBrady- Like the snare tone. Loud mix, but I like it like that.

iCombs - Bass heavy. Vox sound nice. It does thump well. Verb in chorus is a little much for me.

Henchman - Open feel to the mix. I like the chorus. Creative use of lead tracks.

Red Tape - Could use a little low end.Very dry and clean mix. Tracks are well balanced.

Greg Dixon - Low rumble/hum. Other than that the mix is very good.

Liam - I like the kick thump! The verb/delay on the right vox throws me. Chorus sounds good.

Fantomas - Image seems left heavy. Could use some low end. Even mix otherwise.

Jdier - Lots of verb makes it a little boxy. Vox sound good but get lost in the chorus.

ATOR - Intro is cool. A little more contrast would have been cool. Nice open mix. I liked the delay on the solo.

Will F - Nice full mix. The vox get a little buried.

Jhall - Pumpin'. Overall even mix. I like your kit sound.

Scottoliphant - Very bright. Vox sound good. Mix is a little harsh to my ears.

Rankus - Nice full mix. Vox a little wide in the chorus. Overall one of my favorites.

Sing Sing - Lead drop is a little abrupt. I did like what you were going for. Good mix.

TomC - Sounds a little boxy to me. Might be the verb.

Nizzle - Monster Kick! Vox sound good. Very "Big" mix. I like it.

Grant Richard - Another Pumpin' mix. Too much air in the vocal. Other than the vox, I like this mix.

Anonymous - Very stark mix. Clean drums. Once my ears got used to it, I liked this.

3Foot6 - A little harsh. Could use some low end warmth. vox are clear. The 3-4k is kinda hot.

Spoon - Smooth mix. Kick is thumpin'. Kicks a little hot but overall mix sounds nice.

Nice job all!

Nick
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