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Author Topic: IMP10 discussion thread  (Read 19128 times)

j.hall

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Re: IMP10 discussion thread
« Reply #30 on: February 28, 2007, 02:24:25 pm »

Adam Miller wrote on Wed, 28 February 2007 12:07



JHall- Did you replay the guitar solo on a kazoo?




nope,  just tried to make it interesting.
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scottoliphant

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Re: IMP10 discussion thread
« Reply #31 on: February 28, 2007, 02:30:28 pm »

chris J wins for consistently delivering descriptive / fun comments, you should write  record reviews =) I'll get to comments tomorrow maybe. fun again. (did anyone else use the shit mic? I ran it through a pair of 1176 and used it quite a bit in the verse, accounts for a lot of my low end loss i imagine, that and I've been shying away from boosting my lows as of late). nice job everyone.

NickT

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Re: IMP10 discussion thread
« Reply #32 on: February 28, 2007, 02:35:51 pm »

Quote:

(did anyone else use the shit mic?


Yeah...I did. Crushed it with an 1176 plug.  Razz

Adam Miller

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Re: IMP10 discussion thread
« Reply #33 on: February 28, 2007, 02:47:20 pm »

rankus wrote on Wed, 28 February 2007 19:17


EDIT Chris and Adam:  You missed my submission in your critique... although I had more time to mix than you guys, it would be nice to hear what you think. Link:

Rankus - Losing Fight




Nope, it's there! Further up the page.

Dinner break, on with the rest of the submissions....

M Carter- It sounds a bit thin overall. Another one that trades the DI'd guitar sound for the amp... I can't say that approach really does it for me, but maybe I'm just weird. The verb on the snare becomes slightly distracting- it's just too big for the mix.

MacBraddy- the drums seem disconnected from the rest of the mix, it becomes a bit distracting.

Fantomas- A tight mix, I like it, although it maybe needs something 'more' to kick it up a gear. Just a bit more attitude and a bit more ear candy. Not bad at all though.

WillF- nice bottom end, but maybe a bit OTT! I like where you're going with the vox ambience, but maybe a bit too much. The guitars are quite reticent in the chorus, but the ay you've blended the whole thing works quite well. Just a bit too heavy on kick and snare.

Anonymous- The verses really don't work to hold my attention, but the chorus kicks along nicely. The mix is a bit kick-centric.

NickT- the brightness on the drums isn't working for me; the hihat becmoes the focus of the mix; the stereo image also seems a bit skewed. Otherwise, an alright mix, it just doesn't 'nail it' for me.

Sppon- BIG guitars, a man after my own heart! The lack of depth in the snare makes the drumsound a bit cheap to my ears. The whole thing has a bit of a lowmid/bass tilt to the freq balance that becomes quite dominant.

For my own mix... well as Chris mentioned, it's very much a hard rock thang- I couldn't really visualise how else to spin it. I thought about doing something to seperate it from the QOTSA references, but i decided in the end not to fight it.

Really enjoyed doing this one, cheers guys!

Ad
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rankus

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Re: IMP10 discussion thread
« Reply #34 on: February 28, 2007, 02:55:48 pm »



Thanks guys,  I need to pay more attention...In a big hurry this morning, only had a chance to scan...
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M Carter

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Re: IMP10 discussion thread
« Reply #35 on: February 28, 2007, 03:00:43 pm »

Adam - those are actually the amped guitars.  one of the DI's was unusable (to me) because of the hum, so I went for consistency and tried to just let the song be what it was.  I agree that there could be a little more excitment in the low end though.  As far as the reverb, I dunno, a day later and I'm still feeling it.  I can see your point though. For me, it was kind of a nod to the 90's sound this track reminded me of.

Thanks for the input.

How did everyone treat those rhythm guitars anyway?  I ended up doing some minimal EQ, with no compression since it just kind of mucked em up, and riding the faders in a couple of places.  In general, I feel like big distorted guitars are where many of my problems lie.

Matt
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j.hall

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Re: IMP10 discussion thread
« Reply #36 on: February 28, 2007, 03:28:38 pm »

NickT wrote on Wed, 28 February 2007 13:35

Quote:

(did anyone else use the shit mic?


Yeah...I did. Crushed it with an 1176 plug.  Razz



me too.  UAD 1176, input all the way up, adjust output to taste.
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ATOR

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Re: IMP10 discussion thread
« Reply #37 on: February 28, 2007, 05:23:35 pm »

Jhall

ATOR

man, you almost had me with the intro. i could totally see that as a pre-roll segue on the record. but we never came out of the spacey lo-fi thing. the drums are in the other room, and feel soft. the background vocals are louder then the lead. everything just feels soft.

now, if you turned up the guitars i could be sold on this mix. the song is total album filler....and this isn't all that bad of "connector" song. it just doesn't rock.

what was your vision for the mix and the song? i'm curious how you got to this mix.


Actually I was going for a big direct hardpounding rock track with some fx here and there to have a change of scenery Very Happy

But I couldn't get there. As if I was trying to blow up a balloon with a big hole in it, the more I did the weaker it started to sound. I'd still like to make this a powerful sounding mix but right now I don't have a clue how to get there.
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spoon

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IMP10 reviews (spoon)
« Reply #38 on: February 28, 2007, 05:44:49 pm »

As a whole I noticed a couple of globals:
-The main vocal track was compressed abit much that it sounded pressed at various points in the song.
-Most seemed to have the same idea on the mid-song lead treatment (pong echo) which I thought was interesting in itself.


Adam Miller -
Very nice, balanced mix.  Vocals are clear, with nice BG mix.  Bass forward though not bass heavey.  Nice stereo spread.
Lead still rings.

anonymous -
Good balance, but overall song has a masked quality to it.  Weaker/untreated kick.  Narrower mix.

ATOR -
Nice creative intro.  Vox is a bit dark, where it affects some intelligability.  Nice vox echo on bridge.
Balanced mix overall.  Fun lead treatments at the break.

ChrisJ -
Boxy vox (mid range and essey).  Darker and flater drum treatment.  Lead guitars are _very_ background, to the
point of being non-existant.

Cosmedic -
Nice balance. Vox abit low at times.  Leads are very low.

Fantomas -
Balanced mix. Sounds very polished.  Very good...maybe the leads could be a bit louder (for my tastes).

Grant -
Good balance, but the entire mix is fairly pressed/mash into distortion.  It makes the drums sound small and reduces thier impact (kills the snares attack). But it sounds like the toms were saved from this processing.  After listening to it for a while I think I would like to hear this effect on just the vocals alone. I like the exchange of tom for kick during the brigdes.  The vocal effects before the two leads come it were nice.

Greg Dixon -
You have this LFO hanging around which is distracting. Makes the overall mix sound darker than it
probably is.  Ground loop somewhere? Nice vocals and good overall balance except where the hum
drowns out the bass (chorus parts).

iCombs -
Bass is muddying up the mix. It drowns the drums out a bit more than I would like.  Otherwise this is a
very nice sounding mix...nice polish to it.  I like the vocal treatments during the first chorus (echoes).
and before the two lead solos.

Jdier -
Spacious drums make the vox sound overly dry and dull. Vox gets buried during the chorus.  Nice lead FX.
Ending leads are drowned out abit.

JHall -
You like that pumping thing.  I think it was present on all the IMPs I have been apart of.  Not my bag, sounds
too much like modern radio music.  The mix feels a bit muddy (maybe guitar volumes) in the low end.  
I like the vocal treatments as well as the "leads" treatments.

Rattleyour -
Nice balance, maybe a hair bass heavy.  Interesting spacing.  Fuzzed up the left channel rythmn guitar?  Provides a very distinct definition (especially when hearing this song 60 times). Ending leads are so low they are missing.
Good vox treatement.

H Carter -
Nice instr balance...vocals are a bit low in relation to the FX during the verse.
To much additional compression too?  Leads are very low.  Almost not there.

MacBraddy -
Very nice balance...very polished.  Limited use of the Rythmn Gs which is cool, but it leaves the "chorus"
parts a bit empty and unenergized.

Maxim -
Doubling of Lead1 is different.  Didnt use the Rythmn guitars for the verse.  On the chorus did you use
the clean version of the rythmn tracks? Lead doubling is distracting to the middle reverse lead.  I like
the no drum break-down.  Very nice.  Balances are pretty good, but the chorus sections are abit lacking in
energy (non use of the rythmn guitars).

NickT -
Good feel...like the distant Lead1 track.  Drums are very dry, didnt use the room mikes? Gives them that
70's drum feel.

Nizzle -
Good energy from this mix.  Vocals are good if a tad low sometimes. Drums pump a tad.

redtape -
Nice vocal forward mix.  The drums are too small for my taste.  Like the bridge vocal delay.

Scott Oliphant -
Like the snare treatment, but it makes the kick sound even more flat/dry/boring/whimpy. I would figure
the nuke setting would help this out, but no.  The vox is abit low for my tastes.

singsing -
Lead1 track rings a bit much for the volume you have it at.  Drum FX muddy the low end up a bit.
The drums dont sound nuked but they feel pressed (snare specifically).  Vox is nice.

spoon -
By comparison, mine sounds very low in RMS volume...I should smash it more<g>

TomC -
Lead1 track ringing is a bit much. Nice balances.  I dig the vocal FX, but the eq is more midrangy
than I would like.  I would like a bit more oomp from my kick.  Middle and end leads are too low.

Will F -
Nice balances, the effected Lead1 track distracts from the verse vox.  Good energy from this mix.


Please excuse any spelling errors...It was busy at work today.

Regards,
David
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Gabriel F

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Re: IMP10 discussion thread
« Reply #39 on: February 28, 2007, 07:22:51 pm »

Thank you Adam Miller i went for a josh homme desert session vibe and my self critic its pretty much what you said.

I must back off the vocal a little and automate the different sections so they hit harder and some ear candy but i did it with little time.

In a couple of days i will comment about all the mixes.

-----------
Gabriel Fonts.
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grantis

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Re: IMP10 discussion thread
« Reply #40 on: February 28, 2007, 09:05:42 pm »

spoon,
thanks for the comments.  i trying to understand why you say the compression i used makes the drums sound small.  i think if anything, the kick drum should come up in my mix after listening to it again...that mix is huuuuge

i listened to yours, and i'm thinking...it could use a touch (meaning...a lot) more compression on the overheads/room mics.  the snare kind of sits back in the mix a bit, and doesn't really grab me from the get-go.  the bass seems to lack punch as well.

i liked how the lead lines sound at the end though....very tasty!

if anyone else would like to comment on mine, please feel free, i'd love the input!
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Greg Dixon

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Re: IMP10 discussion thread
« Reply #41 on: February 28, 2007, 10:26:09 pm »

Reading these comments and listening to the mixes, for me, reinforces the need for mastering. Not everyone has a great room to mix in and that effects the overall 'tilt' of the mix, but must also 'skew' the way they hear the other mixes.
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j.hall

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Re: IMP10 discussion thread
« Reply #42 on: February 28, 2007, 11:01:43 pm »

henchman

nicely balanced mix.  that snare drum is not doing it for me and it doesn't matchthe boomy toms at all (which i really like).  good choices with the noodling guitars.  i like it.

Greg Dixon

i dig the dry and almost completely untreated sounding drums.  it sounds like they are in a small room balanced well.  the slap on the vocal is fitting in well too.  i've got some weird ground hum, or resonating note....something killing my buzz (pun intended)  the guitar melodies are uneventful.  i think you got really close to something special but backed off, or just didn't go far enough.

nizzle

yeah man, this is probably my current favorite.  i like the pumping off the kick.  makes the mix feel a bit andy wallace-ish.  he's a master at making his big rock mixes pump in a cool way.  nicely done.

Adam Miller

this strikes me a bit like my own mix just less amped up.  i think my mix is a good rough with vocal effects placed.  i feels like you pushed up the faders, got a good blend going, threw some effects at it and walked away.  not that that is wrong, but i think what you and i did is more the job of the tracking guy at the end of each day.

Grant Richard
vocal effects are too much.  i would have used that effect and blended it with the original vocal.  i like the idea, but it sounds like the 100% wet return.

you treated your kick drum almost identical to mine....in fact your drums are very close to mine.......hmmmmmmmmm, i wonder who taught you how to do that??????

the 2buss compression is pumping too hard.  the idea is there, you just went too far.  since i know you i can say that you are still too green to pull off buss compression this extreme.  you need more practice.

guitars are too dark and too quiet.  i went dark on this mix intentionaly and i sorta missed the mark on what i was after.  to me, this mix feels like you went more for the ear candy then you went for the right moves for the song at hand.  the ideas are solid, just not all geling with one another.

M Carter
gentle??????  is this a massage?  you can't learn if i'm gentle.

kick has no bottom and is easily 5 dB quieter then the snare (including arena verb)
the snare is brighter then the vocal, thus drawing too much attention to it.  also, the snare is the loudest element in the mix.  that's not a bad thing, but it's not good in this case.  in the big sections, the kick is just gone......it needs a serious level increase, a big boost at 60Hz.  from what i can tell, your mix is mono minus the stereo panned guitars.  if you are gonna do mono, it has to just flat blow me away, at least IMO.  the guitar melodies are totally burried.  to the point of turning the mix off cause i'm annoyed by not hearing them.

you need to look around the song, find what elements are making it "magic" and zero in on those.  ditch all the effects......ALL OF EM, and start over.  make your drums and bass and lead vocal absolutely slam!!!!!!!!  then add to that.

i'm not tossing that out for a thought....i'm saying....DO IT.  bring this mix back up and do that.  

you are a meter watcher, and an EQ graph watcher.  stop it!!!!!!!

compress till all the vibe and cool comes out, EQ till it sounds awesomer....(yeah i just said awesomer).  the difference between me and you is.......i don't stop till i get what i want.

if you can make the mix POUND without any effects you will be right where you want to be.  from there, the effects are just icing, smoothing things out, and placing things better.

ok, i'm tired i'll do more tomorrow after i post about drums and bass for Tom C.
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j.hall

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Re: IMP10 discussion thread
« Reply #43 on: February 28, 2007, 11:18:38 pm »

Tom C, you asked.....and i hope i can communicate this well.

drums and bass relationship as it relates to j.hall's brain.

i start every mix with the overheads.  i make them ROCK.  i'd say 95% of the time no matter the style of music i'm making the overheads slam.  it seems very common to get overheads that have NO bottom end and have splashy high end.  this makes life miserable for about 15 minutes....but i'll just EQ it till the cows come home.

it is not uncommon to see a UAD 1176 crushing the overheads.  if it isn't that, it'll be my dbx 162 (yes that's hardware) or the chandler abbey road limiter plug-in.

once i'm moderately happy, the kick comes in. the very first thing i do is boos the bottom WAY up and flip the phase.  one way or another will yeild more lows.  i go with that and move on.

j.hall is addicted like a crack head to making his kick drums shake the mix.  i don't always get it.....but i go for it every time.  most of this is 2 buss compression, but setting up the levels is crucial.

from here i get the snare popping (which there isn't a chance i can type about all the mthods i use to pull this off.....i'd have to show you)

now...the drums are basically balanced.....keep in mind that i'll spend the rest of the mix tweaking EQ, comps, and level until i print the mix.  i'm CONSTANTLY adjusting the drums and bass to fit the rest of the mix.

at this point though, the bass comes in.

i destroy it with slow attack and fast release compression, EQ ahead of the comp till i'm happy.  i do all of this while the drums are going.

now, i'll rough this in and get the lead vocal in very soon.

now is where i start working it.

to me, the drums, bass and lead vocal are the most important pieces to the entire mix.

i'll make the lead vocal get right up front (at least for the time being) and i'll spend all the time i need to make the drums and bass absolutely POUND.  i will not waste any time on the kick and snare if they just aren't doing it.  samples will come in rapidly.  i very rarely replace, i'm typically blending.

here is what i think you want.

in my mind, drums are like lightning.  they happen VERY fast.  they can be insanely loud in a mix due to this.  and i'm happy to crank them up as you can probably tell based on what you've heard of my work.  bass is the thunder, it rolls along filling in all the gaps the kick leaves.

now most guys will go for the 80Hz and below.  i get that area dialed in very early on.  i spend the majority of my time working the mids.  150 - 500.  this is the most crucial area of the entire mix.  it holds all your power.  it will make your kick and bass work together, or not.

some times, i'll thin out a bass (in the subs) to get up and more aggressive int he mix and let the kick do all the "heavy lifting"

other times, i do the opposite.

but if you go back and listen to my work, you'll realize that my entire mix is defined by my drum, bass and vocal relationship.  guitars are subjective....what sounds good to one guy sounds horrible to the next........effects are the same within reason......(though i pride myself on being fairly tasteful with my FX).

i easily spend the most time on the drums, bass and lead vocal.  from there, things just fall into place rapidly.

did that help at all?
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j.hall

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Re: IMP10 discussion thread
« Reply #44 on: February 28, 2007, 11:21:47 pm »

ATOR wrote on Wed, 28 February 2007 16:23



Actually I was going for a big direct hardpounding rock track with some fx here and there to have a change of scenery Very Happy

But I couldn't get there. As if I was trying to blow up a balloon with a big hole in it, the more I did the weaker it started to sound. I'd still like to make this a powerful sounding mix but right now I don't have a clue how to get there.


wanna do some recalls?
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