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Author Topic: IMP10 discussion thread  (Read 21201 times)

grantis

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Re: IMP10 discussion thread
« Reply #150 on: March 05, 2007, 02:02:37 pm »

dave,
great mix.  i'm struggling with this snare.  how did you treat yours?

vocal sounds killer!!!
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Grant Craig
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mcsnare

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Re: IMP10 discussion thread
« Reply #151 on: March 05, 2007, 02:25:45 pm »

I duplicated it so I had 2 of the same snares, exactly like what happened with the vocal, but I didn't combine them to a buss. Different eq and compression on each. Also a compressed submix of all the drums, using a Massey CT4. Probably Phoenix on the drum sub also. The overheads got Chandler limiters and Phoenix also, which like J. said, the overheads are a big part of a good drum sound.
Dave

rankus

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Re: IMP10 discussion thread
« Reply #152 on: March 05, 2007, 02:27:26 pm »



Sweet mix Dave!~ Thanks! ~ Love that snare there mcsnare :0)

Any comments / tips / suggestions for the tracking engineer?

(I'm the one that tracked it BTW)

Thanks for joining in!
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Rick Welin - Clark Drive Studios http://www.myspace.com/clarkdrivestudios

Ive done stuff I'm not proud of.. and the stuff I am proud of is disgusting ~ Moe Sizlack

"There is no crisis in energy, the crisis is in imagination" ~ Buckminster Fuller

grantis

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Re: IMP10 discussion thread
« Reply #153 on: March 05, 2007, 03:17:46 pm »

rankus, i haven't yet said.......WAY TO GO ON THOSE TRACKS DUDE.  they rock hard.

maybe you've already posted this somewhere, but where did you put the overheads and the rooms?

grant
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Grant Craig
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mcsnare

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Re: IMP10 discussion thread
« Reply #154 on: March 05, 2007, 04:17:49 pm »

Rick, I thought the tune was generally very well recorded. Except for the hum on the DI of rhythm gtr 2,(which was easy to filter and a mistake I have made myself more than a few times) I can't think of too much I'd change.  I usually eq and compress things to how I want them when recording, so when I mix my own tracks I eq and compress less, but in PT's there is really no penalty for eq'ing later. One thing I'd suggest is try to spread the room mics. I'm never crazy about a coincident pair enless it's to capture things in a very purist way, which can be cool sometimes. For rock drum room, I like to have a wide stereo spread to the ambient mics. Try a pair of 57's at vocal mic height, spread apart several feet pointing away from the kit. Never fails.
Dave

henchman

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Re: IMP10 discussion thread
« Reply #155 on: March 05, 2007, 06:44:14 pm »

I do miss the picking guitar in the Mcsnare mix though.

maxim

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Re: IMP10 discussion thread
« Reply #156 on: March 05, 2007, 07:04:13 pm »

dave, what was the intention/concept behind multing and re-combining the lead vocal?

i hear the result, and am very interested in the process

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rankus

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Re: IMP10 discussion thread
« Reply #157 on: March 05, 2007, 08:00:34 pm »

mcsnare wrote on Mon, 05 March 2007 13:17

Rick, I thought the tune was generally very well recorded. Except for the hum on the DI of rhythm gtr 2,(which was easy to filter and a mistake I have made myself more than a few times) I can't think of too much I'd change.  I usually eq and compress things to how I want them when recording, so when I mix my own tracks I eq and compress less, but in PT's there is really no penalty for eq'ing later. One thing I'd suggest is try to spread the room mics. I'm never crazy about a coincident pair enless it's to capture things in a very purist way, which can be cool sometimes. For rock drum room, I like to have a wide stereo spread to the ambient mics. Try a pair of 57's at vocal mic height, spread apart several feet pointing away from the kit. Never fails.
Dave


Thanks Dave,

Your opinion means something, to me.

I will try your suggestion on the room mics.  The reason there's not much spread there, is that the room is only about 12 feet wide and I don't want to get too close to the walls... but I will try the 57's out as far as I can go next time. Thanks for the tip!

And yes... that hum.... That is embarrassing ... how the hell I missed that I don't know.... I will blame that on the assistant!~ (PS: I work alone)

And yeah, I kind of miss the arpeggio gtr as well, but you made up for it with that intro....
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Rick Welin - Clark Drive Studios http://www.myspace.com/clarkdrivestudios

Ive done stuff I'm not proud of.. and the stuff I am proud of is disgusting ~ Moe Sizlack

"There is no crisis in energy, the crisis is in imagination" ~ Buckminster Fuller

mcsnare

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Re: IMP10 discussion thread
« Reply #158 on: March 05, 2007, 09:54:48 pm »

Thanks guys. I muted the gtr in the first verse for a couple of reasons. If the essential elements are really happening, in this case the drums, bass, rhythm gtr, and lead vocal, you shouldn't need any secondary parts that early in the tune. Most people don't listen with the ears of an engineer and too many things happening can dilute the vibe. Waiting to bring a part in later also adds interest anmd makes a somewhat redundant sounding 2nd verse seem like the tune is going somewhere. In this case, the arpeggio didn't come in as I would have liked, so I moved it from the first verse. Of course all my fancy reasons don't mean squat if you just plain like the gtr where it originally was better. If that was the case in a real situation, I would have left it in and either de emphasized it in someway during the 1st verse and/or made something additional happen during the 2nd verse. I also edited out the repeat section on the end of the 1st chorus because I felt it wasn't taking us anywhere. laso if it had been a real gig, I would have tried to find a way to revisit the chorus in some way toward the end, I just didn't feel like spending any more time on it. Being sensitive to the 'shape' of the arrangement and enhancing that whenever possible, is one of the most important things a good mixer brings to the party.
Dave

rankus

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Re: IMP10 discussion thread
« Reply #159 on: March 05, 2007, 10:23:21 pm »


Well put Dave.... I agree 100%

I must admit that I have listened to this tune sooo many times I have lost all meaningful perspective...  It was really hard doing my comments on all the mixes due to this as well.
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Rick Welin - Clark Drive Studios http://www.myspace.com/clarkdrivestudios

Ive done stuff I'm not proud of.. and the stuff I am proud of is disgusting ~ Moe Sizlack

"There is no crisis in energy, the crisis is in imagination" ~ Buckminster Fuller

henchman

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Re: IMP10 discussion thread
« Reply #160 on: March 05, 2007, 10:45:25 pm »

mcsnare wrote on Mon, 05 March 2007 18:54


Of course all my fancy reasons don't mean squat if you just plain like the gtr where it originally was better. If that was the case in a real situation, I would have left it in and either de emphasized it in someway during the 1st verse and/or made something additional happen during the 2nd verse.
Dave

have ahve done was have it start with the arpeggiated gtr part, and then have it stop going into the 1st verse.
Not used it on the prelap of the 2nd verse, because there's already that weird/cool guitar part there, And then have it in the verse.
Kinda opposit of the way it is now.
Had I had more time to spend on it, I would have done that. However personal reasons prevented me from tackling that extensive of a mix this time.

mcsnare

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Re: IMP10 discussion thread
« Reply #161 on: March 05, 2007, 10:45:27 pm »

It's not that the mics have to be that wide, they just have to be far enough apart or aim in different directions to get a more individual look at the room. A coincident pair(X/Y or in this case X/Y in a stereo mic) hears too much of the same signal in a room situation. The room tone is too random for a close pair to 'hear' much difference so it ends up sounding almost mono. Try a pair spaced about 4 or 5 feet apart pointing at different locations(away from the drums) in the room, and NOT in a symmetrical way. Small rooms do not always equal small drum sound. Happy room micing!
Dave

mcsnare

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Re: IMP10 discussion thread
« Reply #162 on: March 05, 2007, 10:55:24 pm »

p.s. on IMP 10 I time shifted one of the rooms about 10 ms to get a kinda fake spread. Not quite as good as the real thing because the tone of each track is still very similar which means it's only a little better than duplicating a mono room mic and offsetting it.
Dave

maxim

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Re: IMP10 discussion thread
« Reply #163 on: March 05, 2007, 11:03:37 pm »

dave wrote:

"Being sensitive to the 'shape' of the arrangement and enhancing that whenever possible, is one of the most important things a good mixer brings to the party."

quoted for emphasis!
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mcsnare

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Re: IMP10 discussion thread
« Reply #164 on: March 07, 2007, 12:16:53 pm »

That's why it's a good idea to work quickly so you CAN be sensitive the shape of the tune. If I start to get bogged down on one particluar sound, I leave it and work on some other aspect of the mix. I try to constantly be moving forward, maybe cause I bore easily!
Dave
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