R/E/P Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 8   Go Down

Author Topic: Mastering De-Esser?  (Read 41025 times)

Bob Boyd

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1133
Re: Mastering De-Esser?
« Reply #30 on: February 24, 2007, 11:07:59 pm »

bblackwood wrote on Sat, 24 February 2007 20:49

When you guys talk about the Maselec, you're talking about the MDS-2, right?

The one I tried was the MPL-2.  Stereo Peak Limiter + DeEsser.

Looks like the MDS-2 gives you left/right control + a "fast" setting.
Logged
Bob Boyd
ambientdigital, Houston

http://ambientdigital.com
http://myspace.com/ambientdigital

Twitter: @bobboyd


Look, I know it's mean.  But sometimes the end justifies the mean.

Phil Demetro

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 378
Re: Mastering De-Esser?
« Reply #31 on: February 24, 2007, 11:10:00 pm »

Gold wrote on Sat, 24 February 2007 20:19

TotalSonic wrote on Sat, 24 February 2007 14:57

  Can anyone who own one of these comment as to whether my impressions are correct or not?



Not. It always seems to do just what it's supposed to. The lack of controls is a testament to superb design.


How are ya, Paul

Don't you have one of those Neumann's Acceleration limiters with your lathe??
Chris Muth tells me his little "fix" for those will kick the shit out of the Maselec.
Truly no disrespect to Maselec. Amazing design. I guess I'm just bugged 'cause we have a spare Neumann sitting and I'm not allowed to mod it.
YET.
Logged
____________________________________________________
Phil Demetro
Mastering at The Lacquer Channel, Toronto
http://www.lacquerchannel.com/phil-demetro/
____________________________________________________

mcsnare

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 958
Re: Mastering De-Esser?
« Reply #32 on: February 24, 2007, 11:23:30 pm »

I use several things for de-essing. Sometimes the multiband comp in a Quantum, sometimes the multiband comp in Wavelab, sometimes Spitfish, sometimes combinations of the above. I never use eq as a cure for sibilance. I use the Waves Renn when I mix, it's awesome and have always wanted to try it for mastering, but never have. FWIW Ted Jensen told me once that he thought the Waves plugin was better than a DS1.
Dave

Gold

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1453
Re: Mastering De-Esser?
« Reply #33 on: February 25, 2007, 12:37:06 am »

bblackwood wrote on Sat, 24 February 2007 21:49

When you guys talk about the Maselec, you're talking about the MDS-2, right?


That's the one I have but I think the MPL-2 is just a ganged stereo version. He must have changed the MDS-2 at some point because mine has a threshold  lo/hi switch where the fast switch is. Like on the MLA the threshold is always set on low. The time constants are genius on that thing but I guess the fast switch couldn't hurt. I would be more inclined to have a slow switch though. He also changed the scale markings which is an improvement because on mine there are 5 hash marks between 12 & 18 and 5 hash marks between 18 & 20. So I'm always logging 18+2 0r 18+3. A PITA.

Phil,
I use the VG66 rack which has the HT66 HF limiters. I've jumped them out of the circuit. I liked them when I used them but they are sloppy and a little heavy handed. I don't miss them.

I'll inquire about the secret mod. I've been inside a couple of SAL74's that he's worked on. There haven't been any circuit mods besides opamp swaps. I recently went through the full calibration procedure for the acceleration limiters. It was pretty obvious that Neumann screwed around with it until it worked.Meaning it was was good with program. Then worked backwards to figure out how to set them up. There are about 15 trimmers in that thing. And odd things like one trimmer for two parameters seperated by about ten steps. I wouldn't imagine screwing with that circuit is in any way staightforward.
Logged
Paul Gold
www.saltmastering.com

On the silk road, looking for uranium.

Phil Demetro

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 378
Re: Mastering De-Esser?
« Reply #34 on: February 25, 2007, 12:49:39 am »

mcsnare wrote on Sat, 24 February 2007 23:23

the Waves plugin was better than a DS1.
Dave


That doesn't surprise me at all. I personally preferred the DS1 as a compressor. The RenDesser didn't excite me but the original Waves Desser was simple and cool - although I felt a bit dirty when I used it . So ugly!
Logged
____________________________________________________
Phil Demetro
Mastering at The Lacquer Channel, Toronto
http://www.lacquerchannel.com/phil-demetro/
____________________________________________________

Phil Demetro

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 378
Re: Mastering De-Esser?
« Reply #35 on: February 25, 2007, 01:15:26 am »

Gold wrote on Sun, 25 February 2007 00:37

 I recently went through the full calibration procedure for the acceleration limiters. It was pretty obvious that Neumann screwed around with it until it worked.Meaning it was was good with program. Then worked backwards to figure out how to set them up. There are about 15 trimmers in that thing. And odd things like one trimmer for two parameters seperated by about ten steps.



This is kind of stuff is not for the faint of heart - as I've looked into our lathe electronics a few times.
I once remember looking inside a weird but cool EMT compressor we used to own. The German stuff looked well built but seemed so strangely designed? Maybe that transient designer/elysia comp is the latest generation of that lineage?


Logged
____________________________________________________
Phil Demetro
Mastering at The Lacquer Channel, Toronto
http://www.lacquerchannel.com/phil-demetro/
____________________________________________________

Ben F

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 368
Re: Mastering De-Esser?
« Reply #36 on: February 25, 2007, 02:58:18 am »

Adam Dempsey wrote on Sun, 25 February 2007 10:02

For me..
Option 1: avoid de-essers whenever possible. Careful post-compression subtractive EQ instead, usually (edit: tight Q, 1-2dB cut at most).
Option 2: band 3 of Waves C4 in conjunction with the above.
Never had a problem.

Perhaps more importantly, as it's so easy to talk gear, it's good to hear more of peoples' approach. Over-compression in recording & mixing can certainly increase sibilance. Do you get to discuss this ahead of mastering when the option of a remix exists? Or vocal stems - another option?



Would have to disagree with you here Adam. Notching out with EQ can remove the 'sweet spot' on vocals, especially female. The 6-8Khz range and above is the silky highs that float the vocals in front of the music, if they have been well recorded. For vinyl release a de-esser is recommended, otherwise it can be hit hard buy the cutter and sound flattened. I usually save them the hassle.

In my experience so far nothing comes close to the Weiss DS-1. It just somehow manages to only catch sibilance and nothing else. It actually fascinates many people that come into the studio, it seems to be intelligent! Kudos to Daniels algorithms. Other uses for the Weiss are taming high hats and getting rid of midrange bite without losing detail. And then there is the limiter that keeps low/mids intact. It's an incredible box.

How's the Sontec going?

Logged

TotalSonic

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3728
Re: Mastering De-Esser?
« Reply #37 on: February 25, 2007, 03:10:55 am »

Phil Demetro wrote on Sun, 25 February 2007 01:15

Gold wrote on Sun, 25 February 2007 00:37

 I recently went through the full calibration procedure for the acceleration limiters. It was pretty obvious that Neumann screwed around with it until it worked.Meaning it was was good with program. Then worked backwards to figure out how to set them up. There are about 15 trimmers in that thing. And odd things like one trimmer for two parameters seperated by about ten steps.



This is kind of stuff is not for the faint of heart - as I've looked into our lathe electronics a few times.
I once remember looking inside a weird but cool EMT compressor we used to own. The German stuff looked well built but seemed so strangely designed? Maybe that transient designer/elysia comp is the latest generation of that lineage?





I've only used the Neumann BTT74 Acceleration lLmiter that was in the SAL84 rack at Europadisk but I soon learned best results were had by it being in line but setting the threshold high enough so it's limiter would just barely get nudged into action - and using appropriate de-essing and a well set LPF prior to feeding the cutting amps to share the chores of keeping the cutter head safe and the cuts distortion free - otherwise the Neumann AL could be pretty darn heavy handed and just suck out the life out of the hihats.  It would be interesting to hear the result from what Chris Muth could do for this mod wise though.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

cerberus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2651
Re: Mastering De-Esser?
« Reply #38 on: February 25, 2007, 05:35:26 am »

waves linear multiband for me.  although in mixing, i may use melodyne to separate the esses by pitch and... that is real control.   i've also used simple fader automation in mastering to knock down a sibilance or three.

jeff dinces

Gold

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1453
Re: Mastering De-Esser?
« Reply #39 on: February 25, 2007, 07:25:53 am »

Phil Demetro wrote on Sat, 24 February 2007 23:02

[ Has that bland-ish grey-ish sound of the other stuff. I heard there is a newer one which sounds better than the version use. Leon Z. has a newer "black" one and loved it compared to the other generations he used.


The bland sound is why I love the stuff. I've heard the black compressor sounds better too. I have the light grey EQ/compressor and the darker grey MDS. I'll stay blissfully ignorant.

I recently started using the pair of Klein + Hummel UE100's I've been working on for months. People have audibly gasped when I've turned the knobs. That doesn't happen with the Maselec. It just goes about it's business un obtrusively

Quote:


This is kind of stuff is not for the faint of heart - as I've looked into our lathe electronics a few times.
I once remember looking inside a weird but cool EMT compressor we used to own.



There isn't much room (or need IMO) for modification in the lathe electronics without a redisign with new boards. At that point you might as well build from scratch. I could see how a magic calibration might make a difference with the limiters. Maybe changing the time constants. I do remember something about eliminating some coupling caps.

An EMT156PDM perhaps? I had one that I gave up on. Extremely complicated and had impossible to find transitors. Designed by an American though!
Logged
Paul Gold
www.saltmastering.com

On the silk road, looking for uranium.

jfrigo

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1029
Re: Mastering De-Esser?
« Reply #40 on: February 25, 2007, 11:13:08 am »

t.c. 6000, often in M/S mode, though I don't really need to de-ess all that often.
Logged

Andy Krehm

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 611
Re: Mastering De-Esser?
« Reply #41 on: February 25, 2007, 01:57:50 pm »

Phil Demetro wrote on Sat, 24 February 2007 19:27


I have the weiss but it's been off for so long I forget how to use it. Can some one show me a trick or two?



I'm surprised you've abandoned this unit for de-essing!

Why not give it another shot, since you own it.

Fire up the preset, take off the "safe" function, change shelf to a notch, use the side chain to find the worst area and adjust the frequency, bandwidth, ratio and release to taste. If you have the same version as I do, you'll probably find the preset is very close to workable after taking off "safe" and using a notch filter.

On the other hand, given our sometime diametrically opposed gear philosophy, you'll probably still won't like it!

hnewman

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 321
Re: Mastering De-Esser?
« Reply #42 on: February 25, 2007, 02:00:11 pm »

Hi Phil, if and when you decide you've really retired your DS1 for good, sell it to me...

Currently using an EQ1-DYN for de-essing services, and wish I needed it less.

Andy Krehm

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 611
Re: Mastering De-Esser?
« Reply #43 on: February 25, 2007, 02:53:35 pm »

hnewman wrote on Sun, 25 February 2007 14:00

Hi Phil, if and when you decide you've really retired your DS1 for good, sell it to me...

Currently using an EQ1-DYN for de-essing services, and wish I needed it less.

Yeah, Phil. If you're not going to use it, give it up! Man, you must be independently wealthy to keep an expensive unit like that sitting around gathering dust! Don't wait for Daniel to clone it to TDM. Laughing

Harris, as I think you have discovered, as great as it is, the EQ1-DYN only goes so far for de-essing duties so you really do need something else for the really bad stuff and the DS1 does the job really well.

Phil Demetro

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 378
Re: Mastering De-Esser?
« Reply #44 on: February 25, 2007, 02:54:30 pm »

Andy Krehm wrote

Phil Demetro wrote on Sat, 24 February 2007 19:27


I have the weiss but it's been off for so long I forget how to use it. Can some one show me a trick or two?


Fire up the preset, take off the "safe" function, change shelf to a notch, use the side chain to find the worst area and adjust the frequency, bandwidth, ratio and release to taste. If you have the same version as I do, you'll probably find the preset is very close to workable after taking off "safe" and using a notch filter.


You wouldn't try to sabotage me would ya? Kidding... thanks.  It's really about getting all those attack and release times to equal a "magic" setting - which I can never find. But I'm mainly talking about using it as a compressor here. I'm happy-ish in the desser dept.  I might have exagerrated a bit about using it though -  the ds1 gets used for lacquering quite a bit - as a desser.
I often wish the interface was more simplistic or user friendly... one attack, release. I hate the preview/delay stuff.


Andy Krehm wrote

On the other hand, given our sometime diametrically opposed gear philosophy, you'll probably still won't like it!
Nah, it's just a side effect with reading things vs. a real conversation. You're doing your thing & I've got nothing to prove. Keep up the good work.
Logged
____________________________________________________
Phil Demetro
Mastering at The Lacquer Channel, Toronto
http://www.lacquerchannel.com/phil-demetro/
____________________________________________________
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 8   Go Up