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[jdjustice]

ok so i am familiar with the uses for an 1176 and an LA-2A.
i don't, however, hear the LA-3A discussed very often:




some questions i have regarding this unit:

• what are the primary applications it has historically been used on?
• when would i want to use it in place of an 1176 or an LA-2A?
• are there other 'clones' of this device around, or units of similar design and functionality?

thank you for your opinions and experiences!


cheers,
~j.d.

[StuartMac]

Bass guitar, vocals and acoustic guitar leap to mind. It can be very unobtrusive.

The Buzz Audio SOC1.1 is in the same ballpark, but is more flexible. I personally would rather have the Buzz - I'm sure plenty will disagree.

[bushwick]

Think LA2A with a leaner sound - more midrangy. That has been my experience.

josh

[Fletcher]

I've found them to be great for guitars... and on the odd occassion vocals [though not a mainstay by any stretch of the imagination].  For bass... well, sometimes they work but they don't really have the envelop control I often look for in a bass compressor.

Best of luck with your search.

[amorris]

they seem to have a pronounced mid range presence to them. great on snare, gtrs and stuff you want to squash the piss out of. for no other reason that it sounds pretty good when you squash the piss out of stuff with it. very compressed sounding but good.

[Fig]

Yep.

Levelled with excellent fidelity.

Electric guitar, Leslie cabinet and harmonica, occasional vocal (when we ran out of 1176s) and/or bass.

$0.02,

Fig

[wwittman]

I have found them to be what I would imagine an La2a to sound like if it sounded boxy and small.

They might be find for voiceover work.

[Brian Kehew]

I had one that sounded amazing, had to sell it for financial reasons. I did learn the secret of it, just before I had to sell it: hit it HARD. It sounded fine at low level compression (12/3dB) but actually sounded better when I slammed it and made the needle drop way down. This can create some weird envelope artifacts, but it worked very well on electric guitar, bass, and especially rock piano.

AND just like the LA-2 - there is a switch on the back for COMP/LIMIT. Use it. I moved mine out to the front panel. I can't imagine leaving it set in one place all the time! Same for the LA-2.

[Brian Kehew]

The 1176 has a bright thinness that many people like - adding sizzle to things. The LA-3 has more plain treble. The LA-2 more fat and full.

The 1176 is also the fastest of these three devices.

[Sarusan]

Other than on drums, IMO LA-3As are great on everything and I'd choose one over an LA-2A almost every time.  My exceptions tend to be "harsh/bright" voices and pedal steels.  

When faster (attack and/or release) is needed, an 1176 is a better choice.

[wwittman]

There is of course no major relation in sound between the fet style 1176 type compressors and the opto-attenuator La2 and La3.

NATURALLY the optos are "slower"

[Barish]

We have a pair here. Tried to match them for stereo at some point, and then realized I've never ever got to use them in stereo anyway so just left them.

Kinda cleaner version of LA-2A and faster version of LA-4A, I'd describe it. It's great for fattening things that don't require very very fast slew rate. My experience is very similar to Brian's. Hit the bloody thing hard and let it swell. If you don't like what you hear, then try a different compressor. After a while you get an idea what it would work on and what it wouldn't depending on your ear taste anyway (I find it to be totally rubbish on acoustic guitars, for instance, and also not so inspiring on vocals, but on snare, kick and some clean electric guitars it can be very very nice. Tempramental.)

I tend to ignore the VUs on LA series for they don't really mean anything. Just some indicators that tell you that the gear behind works, that's all. Other than that, they never relate to what you hear through them.

B.

[zmix]

jdjustice wrote on Tue, 20 February 2007 17:24

what are the primary applications it has historically been used on? when would i want to use it in place of an 1176 or an LA-2A? are there other 'clones' of this device around, or units of similar design and functionality?

Historical reference:

Bob Clearmountain used an LA-3 at the primary lead vocal limiter nearly every mega hit he's mixed.

In lieu of 1176 or LA-2:

It's so dissimilar to the 1176 that I wouldn't choose between them on any one application.
The LA-3 is quite a bit cleaner than an LA-2, so if that was an important consideration you might use it in place of the LA-2.

Clones:

Nope.

[wwittman]

I know Bob has his La3's modded somehow (for a quieter gain structure in the manner he uses them on vocals)

and I STILL think they're boxy sounding.


they make excellent paper weights though.

[Vertigo]

The LA2A and LA3A both use the T4B opto for attenuation, but that's pretty much where the similarities end. They're really quite different beasts on the inside. The LA2A make-up gain section is tube based, whereas the LA3A uses transistors, so you're not going to get that same "magic" you get by cranking up the gain knob on the LA2A. Not that the LA3A doesn't have magic on its own, it's just considerably different than the LA2A.

-Lance

[zmix]

wwittman wrote on Tue, 13 March 2007 15:50

I know Bob has his La3's modded somehow (for a quieter gain structure in the manner he uses them on vocals)

That mod has nothing to do with vocals, per se. it simply reduces the gain of the makeup amp by increasing the negative feedback. I think it makes them sound too hard.
I've modded mine in a different way that I find to be more musical.

Quote:

and I STILL think they're boxy sounding.

At least they don't sound "In the Box" -ey

[Barish]

zmix wrote on Wed, 14 March 2007 18:10

Quote: and I STILL think they're boxy sounding. At least they don't sound "In the Box" -ey

M.

[minkthinking]

ill take one (or 5) off of someone's hands

[Ross Hogarth]

zmix wrote on Wed, 14 March 2007 11:10

wwittman wrote on Tue, 13 March 2007 15:50 I know Bob has his La3's modded somehow (for a quieter gain structure in the manner he uses them on vocals) That mod has nothing to do with vocals, per se. it simply reduces the gain of the makeup amp by increasing the negative feedback. I think it makes them sound too hard. I've modded mine in a different way that I find to be more musical. Quote: and I STILL think they're boxy sounding. At least they don't sound "In the Box" -ey

hey chuck

what is your mod?

let us know ....

[Jim Williams]

Ross Hogarth wrote on Wed, 14 March 2007 21:11

zmix wrote on Wed, 14 March 2007 11:10 wwittman wrote on Tue, 13 March 2007 15:50 I know Bob has his La3's modded somehow (for a quieter gain structure in the manner he uses them on vocals) That mod has nothing to do with vocals, per se. it simply reduces the gain of the makeup amp by increasing the negative feedback. I think it makes them sound too hard. I've modded mine in a different way that I find to be more musical. Quote: and I STILL think they're boxy sounding. At least they don't sound "In the Box" -ey hey chuck what is your mod? let us know ....

Don't know what they do, but here's what I do. (I'm feeling generous today).

First, those 2N5117 transistors have to go. For Q1 and 2 I use Motorola MPSA18's. C15 should be Mica, if it's ceramic, change it to mica or a Wima FKP-2 polyprop cap. C1 is changed to .47 uf, MKS-2 Wima with a .0047 MKP-2 1kv bypass. If C2 is a tantalum, leave it. If it's electrolytic, change to 10 uf 50v Panasonic FC.

C14 is either mica or Wima FKP-2, C3 is another Panasonic 10 uf 50v FC. R14 is now 15k, C4 is now 220 pf Wima FKP-2 or a mica. C5 is changed to a 1000 uf 25v Panasonic FM bypassed with a .1 uf 250v MKP-2 Wima. C8 is another 10 uf 50v FC and C9 is a 100 uf 50v FM. C12 is changed to a 2200 uf 35v and C10 is 4700 uf 50 v Nichicon.

Last, change Q5 to a 2N6716 and Q6 to a 2N6728 for a faster sound.

No, these do not sound boxy at all, in fact, they breath.

[thephatboi]

How are the reissues, anybody heard one against vintage?

[Barish]

Never heard the sound of the reissues yet. Mine are the old ones.

M.

[wwittman]

Jim Williams wrote on Sat, 17 March 2007 11:47

No, these do not sound boxy at all, in fact, they breath.

It's not the compression aspect (which is virtually the same as the La2a) that I object to.

it's the sound of its extremely adequate sounding solid-state amp.

Even WITHOUT doing any compression, run a guitar through it and A-B... just going through the thing makes things sound boxier.

[Vertigo]

Quote:

How are the reissues, anybody heard one against vintage?

Reissues are tricky with these units - a LARGE portion of the character of the LAxA's has to do with the transformers. I know UA does make a good recreation of the T4B in their LA2A's (and LA3A's), but without the UTC transformers it just doesn't sound like the real thing. I'd imagine the same is probably true of the LA3A reissues.

-Lance

[Pepe Ortega]

Jim Williams wrote on Sat, 17 March 2007 09:47

No, these do not sound boxy at all, in fact, they breath.

I own 3 La3a modded by Jim Williams and they sound excellent. As he says ,they breath. no boxy sound here.  I really love in vocals and guitars and many other sources..

[Bryson]

Vertigo wrote on Sun, 18 March 2007 11:40

Quote: How are the reissues, anybody heard one against vintage? Reissues are tricky with these units - a LARGE portion of the character of the LAxA's has to do with the transformers. I know UA does make a good recreation of the T4B in their LA2A's (and LA3A's), but without the UTC transformers it just doesn't sound like the real thing. I'd imagine the same is probably true of the LA3A reissues. -Lance

I'm not a big fan of the Beyer xfrmrs that the orig LA3 had.
I wonder if the RI's recreated those.

[theo mack]

wwittman wrote on Tue, 13 March 2007 12:50

I know Bob has his La3's modded somehow (for a quieter gain structure in the manner he uses them on vocals) and I STILL think they're boxy sounding. they make excellent paper weights though.

I have run across some boxy LA3's before.
Once ar right track the tech told me they were not 600ohm terminated yet. Not sure if that was it or not.
But a good one with the gain mod, original transformers, and 600ohm terminated can be a really really nice comp.
To me it has similar balistics to a La2-a but less dirt. Also as mentioned before, even at mega gain reduction the highs dont fall apart.

I like them (original with gain mod) for tracking vocals way better than the reissue la2a.
I havent used the reissue la3a much, but it didn't seem to have the  mojo of an original.

The release swell on guitar tracks is a cool effect too.

Not really fast enough for all vocals. 1176 or purple might be a better bet for all around.

[yeloocproducer]

Mine has the switch on the front, and 600 ohm change, but what's the gain mod?  I'm not sure I would change anything on this one b/c as Mr. K has stated, it sounds great.

Brian, you can rest assured this puppy has a nice new home

[Fletcher]

William is spot on about the sound of the amplifier!!  It does some neat things to vocals too [especially if you're not using it on guitar]... and yeah, a lot of that sound comes from the transformers.

I found the reissue to be not as cool as the old ones but still very "LA-3A-esque" in character [which is indeed a unique character].

Hope this helps a bit.

[Coco]

Pepe  Ortega wrote on Mon, 19 March 2007 04:34

Jim Williams wrote on Sat, 17 March 2007 09:47 No, these do not sound boxy at all, in fact, they breath. I own 3 La3a modded by Jim Williams and they sound excellent. As he says ,they breath. no boxy sound here.  I really love in vocals and guitars and many other sources..

I'd wager that the UA reissue uses custom wound Cinemags,like the 1176 reisues do.

[yammer]

Actually, the reissue 1176 input transformer was cloned by Magnetika, as was that of the reissue LA-2A. However, the input transformer for the LA-3A was cloned by Cinemag for us. If you get the chance to hear it or are in the market for an LA-3A, I highly recommend you check out the UA reissue. It is my favorite compressor we make, and it is actually a stellar clone. The original designer Brad Plunkett was an active consultant on the project, and the lead engineer was Dennis Fink, another UREI engineer who worked under Brad.

To me, the LA-3A is much more versatile than an LA-2A, and it has very different compression charaterisics from an LA-2A, especially has high gain reduction settings. I was just listening to them side by side to the LA-2As last week. They actually sound pretty amazing even as a drum compressor or room mic compressor. Of course on the other hand, there are those times when only and LA-2A will do, especially for vox. I tend to prefer the LA-3A on rock vocals, electric bass, and guitars.

[wwittman]

WHY would that be true?

don't they use the same LDR?