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Author Topic: New Sontec  (Read 24033 times)

Ben F

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Re: New Sontec
« Reply #15 on: August 31, 2011, 08:08:15 pm »

Love that big Sontec logo! Looks like a better paint job (and hopefully better construction) than the last 482 reissue I have used.
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Gold

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Re: New Sontec
« Reply #16 on: September 01, 2011, 01:17:33 pm »

Still figuring out the corners for the HPF.  The low pass is probably going to be 15k, 16k, 17k, 18k, and 19k and off.  2nd order, Butterworth. 

Those wouldn't be my choices. I'd start much lower. The last three will be pretty much useless. Records for all practical purposes go to 15k. It's a dirty little secret. I have an idea for an elaborate filter set for cutting. It's the project for "after the console is finished".
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Paul Gold
Salt Mastering

dietrich

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Re: New Sontec
« Reply #17 on: September 01, 2011, 01:26:06 pm »

. I have an idea for an elaborate filter set for cutting. It's the project for "after the console is finished".
4 channel with the EE same box.
would it be 'Salt' or 'Gold'?
I can see a nice white ivory faceplate
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Gold

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Re: New Sontec
« Reply #18 on: September 01, 2011, 01:37:42 pm »

4 channel with the EE same box.
would it be 'Salt' or 'Gold'?
I can see a nice white ivory faceplate

The filter set will incorporate the function of the EE but not say EE on it. Not at all similar to the Neumann EE77 circuit that i'm using for this.

The EE I'm making for Andrew is unbranded. Roger Foote did the layout and hard work. I can make a few here and there but I can't go into the vastly lucrative EE manufacturing business.
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Paul Gold
Salt Mastering

24-96 Mastering

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Re: New Sontec
« Reply #19 on: September 01, 2011, 08:17:04 pm »

Congrats on your 482! If you haven't already, try a boost on the highest parametric band, at 25k, with medium Q, for a presence boost :)
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Robin Schmidt @ 24-96 Mastering
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livingstone

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Re: New Sontec
« Reply #20 on: September 02, 2011, 03:17:27 am »

Andrew, you'd almost made me consider to trade my blue 315 and ear 825 for some simplicity  ;)
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phonon

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Re: New Sontec
« Reply #21 on: September 02, 2011, 07:33:25 am »

Love that big Sontec logo! Looks like a better paint job (and hopefully better construction) than the last 482 reissue I have used.


Hi Ben, Looks good and feels good.  And, it's not just paint; it's embossed.  Stevie Wonder could "read" it.   


Andrew
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mmarra

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Re: New Sontec
« Reply #22 on: September 02, 2011, 07:49:49 am »

Congrats Andrew...it looks great and must sound even better. When I have enough to spend on analog hardware a Sontec MES EQ will be at the top of my list as today I am all digital.

I would love you hear your experiences and joy when working with your new Sontec... ;D

Take care,
Mike
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Mike Marra (P.Eng)
Joćo Carvalho Mastering
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phonon

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Re: New Sontec
« Reply #23 on: September 02, 2011, 07:55:59 am »

Those wouldn't be my choices. I'd start much lower. The last three will be pretty much useless. Records for all practical purposes go to 15k. It's a dirty little secret. I have an idea for an elaborate filter set for cutting. It's the project for "after the console is finished".


That's interesting, Paul.  I'm not stuck with those numbers.  It's still in the droughting phase (pour another cold one, while we scribble stuff down).   
For what it's worth, the premastering processing is going to be in a different room, here, that has better acoustics. 
I am only going to be applying compatibility and protection processing in the mastering room.
My hope is that I can find settings on the low pass filter that are largely inaudible or have minimal impact on the program, but will be able to keep the heat down on the drive coils.  (Also working on getting this drive coil current - side chain Ortofon STL-732 added to the console that my landlord still has from his mastering days.)

The heads I have are ruler flat to 20k and 25k, respectively.  These are the Ortofon DSS732 and DSS731 models. 
The latter was designed to do quad-channel recording and is down 5 dB by 40kHz.   With 10 dB of motional feedback applied to the DSS732, the 70.7% corner is up to about 26 kHz.  Perhaps this is the Achilles heel of the Ortofon?  Too much hi fi for such a light-weight package?   :'(
Burgess noticed that the stereo Orto head is no larger in size than the old mono one he used to cut with. 
I've read that your SX-74 should be flat to within +/- 2B up to around 24 kHz.  If this is true, then I should have thought that a low pass filter which is -3 dB @ 19 kHz, would be ideal at keeping the music as sparkly as possible, while protecting the epoxy in that SX.   

Did you read about Stan Ricker taking apart his 68, with a fried right coil and mating the good half with a friend's 68 that had a fried left coil and got the good parts to work together per spec?

Andrew
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phonon

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Re: New Sontec
« Reply #24 on: September 02, 2011, 08:08:43 am »

Congrats on your 482! If you haven't already, try a boost on the highest parametric band, at 25k, with medium Q, for a presence boost :)

Actually, my mastering guru, Dave Davis, already hipped me to that setting a couple of years ago, since he has been working with a 430 for the last couple of decades.   
Was the first thing I tried, and it really opens the windows on some ffrresh air.  Got to apply some to a 30 ips 1/2-track master the other day.  But I only boosted by 0.25 dB.  The Q was "6."    Glad to have the Dunlavy speakers that Dave also recommended (about 12 years ago) so that I could hear the details of that subtle tweak.
Interestingly, or not, Dave is not a die-hard analog fan.  But when it comes to analog parametrics, he seemed to like the Sontec.   
Everything the guy likes - from Mytek to Sontec,  Studer, and Weiss, I've agreed with, whole hog.     

Andrew
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Gold

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Re: New Sontec
« Reply #25 on: September 02, 2011, 11:41:03 am »

I've been trying to avoid giving a snarky answer but you should really do some cutting before designing stuff for cutting. You have not considered the playback side of the equation. It's no problem getting that stuff on the disk. Getting it off the disk is another matter.
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Paul Gold
Salt Mastering

Gold

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Re: New Sontec
« Reply #26 on: September 02, 2011, 11:44:10 am »

Did you read about Stan Ricker taking apart his 68, with a fried right coil and mating the good half with a friend's 68 that had a fried left coil and got the good parts to work together per spec?

No, but that's as easy a repair as you could hope for. Most are not that easy. There are not adjustments in a rebuild. Either everything is right and fits and works or it doesn't. The Westrex is easier to fix but has to be tweaked to get it right.
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Paul Gold
Salt Mastering

phonon

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Re: New Sontec
« Reply #27 on: September 02, 2011, 01:00:44 pm »

I've been trying to avoid giving a snarky answer but you should really do some cutting before designing stuff for cutting. You have not considered the playback side of the equation. It's no problem getting that stuff on the disk. Getting it off the disk is another matter.

Right on.   It's well past snark week.  (:    I'll take some free lessons, though.
I know that pickups need to trace the wiggles and that fast and furious is no good for tracing. 
However, one of the veteran cutters I've been consulting with confessed not to use any low pass filtering on most cuts he did (70's-80's), since he didn't like what it did to the highs, although he did use the Neumann acceleration limiter (and sometimes the Ortofon STL) and also cut at reasonable levels - mostly full sides.   
(I was surprised to read that video can be cut to disc, if the grooves are small enough.) 
 
For fun, I just checked that RCA New Orthophonic Test Record, and, supporting your remark, (going from the top the the bottom) it only starts up at 15k.  Also, the 11k-15k tones are cut 6 dB lower than the second band of test tones (from 30 cps to 10k).
It mentions not wanting the playback needle to go for a skate.

On the other hand, when I look at Cat Stevens's Teaser and the Firecat, or Bob Welsch's French Kiss, there is good meat all the way to 21k, where the ADC chops off the feed to the Spectrum Analyzer.
The energy is a gradual slope down, if compared to white noise, from 2k, on up.   But I didn't see / hear any deliberate knee, along that slope, and when he sings, "Scentimental Lady...," the "S" is right up there with the rest of the spectrum.   Maybe they used a first order pass at 10k and no acceleration limiter???

Here's one for you Black Sabbath fans, if an LP plays for 20 minutes, how many times has the table turned?    8)


Andrew
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phonon

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Re: New Sontec
« Reply #28 on: September 02, 2011, 01:04:54 pm »

No, but that's as easy a repair as you could hope for. Most are not that easy. There are not adjustments in a rebuild. Either everything is right and fits and works or it doesn't. The Westrex is easier to fix but has to be tweaked to get it right.

I don't know if two heads are better than one, but two bad heads can be as good as one good one...

In the article, he didn't seem to know about ABG in NYC.  He said that he'd otherwise have had to ship the head to Germany. 

He did say he liked to use the Orto head with a Pass Aleph0.


Andrew
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Gold

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Re: New Sontec
« Reply #29 on: September 02, 2011, 01:12:47 pm »

Hearsay is not admissible in court. Great sounding records, sound great. No argument there. Those records were made by people who knew what they were doing. If you are prepping all the masters then you can make sure everything is okay. If you plan on taking in "flat cuts" then you will need to fix things. Big non white glove things.
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Paul Gold
Salt Mastering
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