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[dconstruction]

I know this isn't the "true intent" of the IMP experiments, but I was thinking we could augment the experience while we wait for IMPX with some "how'd you do that?" conversations.

I'm often befuddled by the kick.  I know my tones to tape (er, disc) need to improve, but listening to the vast variance in sounds across the IMP9 mixes made me realize how much a mixer can do to the overall sound of this one very dynamic (and difficult) instrument.

I went through and listened to all the submissions again, and I'd love it if the following could share with us how they got their kick drum sound (like, exactly).  Each is unique, and to my ears, something worth learning from:

• ATOR
• JHall
• MacManDude
• SixWax
• Starscream2010
• Undertow

Now, if anyone else wants to share their exact treatment, please don't let me stop you!  The above persons' kicks just caught my ear, regardless of the context.

And if this is successful, we can do it with snare and vocals and hats and guitars and, and, and....

L

[j.hall]

Left Drum Kit:

Kick:

EQ 3 (7 band):

82.5Hz shelf boosted 5.2 dB
271.4Hz Q 1.0 -2.5dB
939.6Hz Q 3.79 7.2dB

Crane Song Phoenix

Kick Reso:

gated hard

UAD 1176
input = 0
output = 30
attack = 1
release = 7
ratio = all four buttons in

EQ 3 (1 band)

1.62kHz Q 1.0 9.5dB

Hi Hat:

UAD 1176:
input = 0
output = the tick between 30 and 24
attack = 1
release = 7
ratio = 4:1

OH:

UAD 1176 (same setup exactly as the hi hat)

EQ 3 (7 band):

116Hz self 5.5 dB
3kHz Q 1.0 8.4dB

CraneSong Phoenix

all that is bussed (in mono) and compressed with another UAD 1176 fairly brutally to get that distortion and pumping.

Right Drum Kit:

Kick:

UAD 1176:
Input = inbetween 6 and 0
output = 24
attack = 1
release = 6
ratio = 4:1

Kick Reso:

copy all settings and plugs from left kick reso

Hat:
dry as a bone, no plugs

OH:

focusrite D3 compressor:
ratio = 6:1
threshold = -48
attack = 50ms
release = 25ms
output = +8

EQ 3 (4 band)

100 Hz shelf 3.8dB
900 Hz Q 4.67 11 dB
6.69kHz Q 1.0 9.9 dB

CraneSong Phoenix

all that is bussed in mono

the buss has Lo-Fi on it.

sample rate = off
anti-alias = 100%
sample size = 24 bits
noise = 1%
distortion = 5.4
saturation = 0.3

[ATOR]

Dconstruction

I'm often befuddled by the kick. I know my tones to tape (er, disc) need to improve, but listening to the vast variance in sounds across the IMP9 mixes made me realize how much a mixer can do to the overall sound of this one very dynamic (and difficult) instrument.

I have the same problem, I spend most of my mixing time on trying to get a good kick/bass foundation. It's also the weak point of my mixes.

Maybe we can do a IMP kick/bass special. We take 4 different 16bar loops with just drums and bass and try to make them work. It's the foundation that carries a mix and if it sucks mixes will never be any good no matter how great the rest is.

I'll post my drumnotes soon.

[ATOR]

The story behind my Kick.

I only used one Kick and put it in the centre. The rest of the two kits was panned left and right.

Kick In
Gated with the Cubase 'strip silence' feature. Snarehits that came through were deleted.

UAD Pultec
+5 @ 60Hz
+5 @ 3kHz

UAD 1176
Input 18
Output 18
Atk 4
Rel 5
Ratio 4

Uniquel-izer
- 3dB @ 200Hz
-7db @ 2kHz
both with a high Q


Kick Res
(not gated)
Uniquel-izer
-10dB @1k Q1
Hishelf -7dB @ 2.6kHz


Kick Group
Uniquel-izer
+6dB @ 60Hz Q.4
-6dB @ 121Hz Q.2
-3dB @ 500Hz
+5 @ 5kHz


On the Drumbuss:

Sonalksis SV-315
Thres -7.2
Ratio 4.5
Knee 1.6
Atk 21ms
Rel 314ms

Magneto
Tapespeed 15
Drive 15
Character 100

[j.hall]

it's interesting that i gladly started the thread with great detail and only one other guy has ponied up his settings.

i thought this type of thing was exactly what IMP was about.  the willingness to share how you did what you did and why you did it.

[ScotcH]

Well, my mix appeared unremarakble to most people (as in no good or bad comments).  To me says that while it wasn't bad mix or sound wise, it was not remarbale enough to want to know more ... it didn't stand out.  I can certainly post some details if it will help others get an equally unintrusive mix

[starscream2010]

j.hall wrote on Mon, 29 January 2007 13:51

it's interesting that i gladly started the thread with great detail and only one other guy has ponied up his settings. i thought this type of thing was exactly what IMP was about.  the willingness to share how you did what you did and why you did it.

Yo! I just saw this thread, been a bit busy...

I don't have exactly what I did in front of me, but, off the top of my head....

I used the #2 kit then, bussed the oh and hat to one group(KIT), the top & bottom snare to another group(SNARE) and the inside & reso kick to yet another group(KICK).... THEN, I took the snare and kick groups and bussed them down to one as well(KICK/SNARE).

"KIT" got compressed with an URS 1970 on the "1176-nuke" mode and eq'd with the URS N Series, if I recall it was only a little 10K and alot of 110Hz

"SNARE" was just the top and bottom mixed until I was happy with it, it was pretty much 50/50... if I remember right. I then ran that through a PSP Vintage Warmer, started with the "snare setting" and tweeked it from there, nothing else there.

"KICK" was a blend of the the inside & reso tracks, mostly inside(wasn't really into the reso track), then about 15% of it is a sample to round out the bottom end... sent that to the URS 1970 with a "LA2A setting" then eq'd with the N series eq, maybe +6 @ 60Hz, -6 @ 350 and +10 @ 10K.

Lastly... "KICK/SNARE" got some Dominion (transient designer) plug and both were sent to a bit of a PCM "Tiled Room" impulse via the Voxengo Impulse plug. Also, I think that all 3 busses were hit with a bit of faux-tape compression via the Voxengo Tape-Buss plug.

All were mono and panned up the middle.

I 100% agree with J. that sharing methods/ideas/techniques are what IMP should be about, sorry about the delay...

Nick

[maxim]

nick wrote:

""KICK/SNARE" got some Dominion (transient designer) plug and both were sent to a bit of a PCM "Tiled Room" impulse via the Voxengo Impulse plug..."

cool!

what did you do with dominion?

[iCombs]

To be honest...I don't remember what I did to my kick...I can tell you that I did a tiny bit of EQ, and a metric fuckload of compressing.  I think I pulled a little 400 out with a pretty wide bell from my REQ (on either kick)...the difference side-to-side for my kits was compression...the kit on the right had a much slower attack than the kit on the left.  I'm pretty sure that both kits saw well over 20dB of compression...but I submixed my drums to stereo first thing...I knew I wanted a raw, almost Ringo-esque drum sound (Revolver is my standard beatles reference, fwiw), which requires way more compression than EQ.  I think I might've even compressed it once ITB, and once OTB as it was being bounced down.

[starscream2010]

maxim wrote on Mon, 29 January 2007 23:22

nick wrote: ""KICK/SNARE" got some Dominion (transient designer) plug and both were sent to a bit of a PCM "Tiled Room" impulse via the Voxengo Impulse plug..." cool! what did you do with dominion?

I'm not sure... I will be at the studio tonight and will see if I still have IMP9 saved. If I do I will report back later tonight.

[rankus]

Well even though I am not on the list    I will see if I can recall from memory what i did:

I used the drums #1 and ditched the #2 tracks.

The kick would have had a mid scoop at about 500hz , a boost at 90-100hz  and another boost at approx 7k.

I bussed all the close mics to a stereo bus and ran a UAD1 1176 in paralell compression on that bus... keeping it unobtrusive..

I probably did  a minor mid scoop -2 db at 500hz on this bus as well.

I really did as little as possible to these drums in order to keep a natural "band jamming in a room" sound.  I felt that by trying to make a commercial mix of these tracks I was losing sight of the "vibe", which was  a very "off the cuff" performance and recording.

[UnderTow]

I never found enough time to listen to all the entries.

Anyway, this is how I mutilated the kick drum:

I used the Beater track from take 1

Sonitus Gate:
Lookahead 5ms, attack 0 ms, Hold 41ms, Release 105 ms, depth -13 dB

Ren EQ:
Hipass  @ 30Hz Q 0.9
+3.9 dB @ 63Hz Q 0.8
-9.5 dB  @ 351 Hz Q 0.26

VC64 EQ1:
Lopass @ 5200Hz Q 0.7

VC64 Compressor:
attack 2.4 ms, threshold -32.6 dB Release 5ms, optical mode, autogain on

VC64 EQ2:
-8.2 dB @ 164Hz Q 0.7

Waves SSL Channel:
+ 9dB @ 5.9 Khz HiShelf
+ 7 dB @ 3.7 Khz Q 1.5
-4.5 dB @ 270 Hz Q 2.5
+ 5.5 dB Lowshelf @ 60 Hz
Compressor: Ratio 5:1, release 0.22, slow attack, threshold  -13.6
Expander: Range -40 dB, Release 0.87, slow attack, threshold -4.2 dB

Tube Maximizer:
Maximize 71.76%, Factor 50%

Drums bus:

Voxengo HarmoniEQ:
+1.5 dB @ 749Hz
+3.3 dB HiShelf @ 6.7 Khz

Voxengo Elephant:
Butterworth hipass filter at 16Hz

Drums bus sends to WizooVerb:
Punchy drum ambience, Predelay 7 ms, Time 0.5 secs, Lowpass @ 6 Khz, Width max.

Drums bus also sends to Vocal reverb (14ms pre, 0.4s)

There is also a couple of compressors on the stereo bus and a Voxengo Warmifier.

So my motto: Go wild with EQ! Go wild with Compression! Sculpt the sound and don't let the original recording get in your way.  

Alistair