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Author Topic: Waves L3-16 Multimaximizer  (Read 44414 times)

Bob Boyd

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Re: Waves L3-16 Multimaximizer
« Reply #15 on: February 01, 2007, 03:45:29 PM »

hmmm...  "L-poo"...  There's a joke in there somewhere...
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Bob Boyd
ambientdigital, Houston

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Adam Dempsey

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Re: Waves L3-16 Multimaximizer
« Reply #16 on: February 01, 2007, 03:59:46 PM »

dguidry wrote on Fri, 02 February 2007 06:12

 I've seen numerous complaints about the capabilities of the manely products to deliver loudness without artifacts.


As an educated guess I'd say that, by far, users of Manley products do so for anything but achieving max loudness, let alone without artifacts. Rather, it's purely for the sound of it.
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Adam Dempsey
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compasspnt

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Re: Waves L3-16 Multimaximizer
« Reply #17 on: February 01, 2007, 06:33:33 PM »

Well I have the L3 Ultra-Maxipad-erizer, AND I have several other (in my opinion) MUCH higher quality competing software plugins (ie Sony Oxford, UA, etc.) AND I have a good amount of analogue "Manely" {sic} gear (both EQ's and compressors).

I can state categorically that the L3 is the least of these brethren.

And I would never try to achieve "Final Loudness" to CD with analogue gear, anyway.
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Fergal T

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Re: Waves L3-16 Multimaximizer
« Reply #18 on: February 02, 2007, 03:11:32 PM »

1 band, at 0dBFS,

then six bands at 0dBFS,
now 16 frequency ranges at 0dBFS...

I'm sure I've mentioned this before, but I think there's a trend here...  

I see it now:
"Tired of limiters that only allow you to make sure sixty bands of your mix stay rigidly at maximum amplitude? Tired of the fact that when 220Hz is at Output Ceiling, you can't get 230Hz there at the same time? Well now you can!! Today, WAVES announce that they have teamed up with Digidesign to release a revolutionary new plugin, called Infinite Frequency Maximizer. This unique device wraps select functionality from Digidesign's Signal Generator plugin in a familiar Waves GUI, and will ensure that your audio output contains ALL frequencies at EQUAL AMPLITUDE!!!"


-Fergal
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duckhunter

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Re: Waves L3-16 Multimaximizer
« Reply #19 on: February 02, 2007, 04:15:37 PM »

Your sarcasm is ironic.  WWW.Soundtraining.com educates some of the world's best at sucking the life out the artistry of music, the D.J.  Before you critisize the use of plugins to accomplish what many are doing by buying the most expensive mastering hardware in the world, look first at what you have contributed to the industry of music.
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Studio 89

bblackwood

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Re: Waves L3-16 Multimaximizer
« Reply #20 on: February 02, 2007, 05:35:57 PM »

dguidry wrote on Fri, 02 February 2007 15:15

Your sarcasm is ironic.  WWW.Soundtraining.com educates some of the world's best at sucking the life out the artistry of music, the D.J.  Before you critisize the use of plugins to accomplish what many are doing by buying the most expensive mastering hardware in the world, look first at what you have contributed to the industry of music.

Hey Dean, you should chill out. Do you see anyone else around here acting like a fool?

Nothing wrong with folks expressing their dislike for something you love, in fact your actions seem to indicate a rather nasty lack of self confidence.

So while you're welcome to hang out and share and learn, if you can't play well with others, you'll be invited to leave. Hopefully you can join in and add to the quality of the forum.
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Brad Blackwood
euphonic masters

cerberus

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Re: Waves L3-16 Multimaximizer
« Reply #21 on: February 03, 2007, 09:11:45 AM »

compasspnt wrote on Thu, 01 February 2007 09:53

extra special magic
imo, an incremental improvement would be enough for any serious m.e.  i do not have uad or sony but i have heard the results in my peers' work.   i expect L3-16 will be top-of-class when it is released.
Quote:

Now it sits very lonely and sad.
i think that waves understands why some engineers do not appreciate L3; so L3-16 might hit you differently.  assuming i am right that it will impress users of  sony oxford and uad precision (i think "precision" means "oversampled",  not rocket science)... then i think it is down to taste, like talking about "best" monitors.

jeff dinces

duckhunter

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Re: Waves L3-16 Multimaximizer
« Reply #22 on: February 03, 2007, 09:32:06 AM »

Brad, your comment had just as much bite as mine...but enough of that.  I'm working now on the finer points of M/S micing and equalization to use in a session this weekend.

Look, if anyone was offended by my comments, I'm sorry.  But as a new contributor to this forum, I was not welcomed with open arms and I over reacted.
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Studio 89

bblackwood

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Re: Waves L3-16 Multimaximizer
« Reply #23 on: February 03, 2007, 09:45:30 AM »

dguidry wrote on Sat, 03 February 2007 08:32

Brad, your comment had just as much bite as mine...but enough of that.

Indeed, there's a reason for that.

Quote:

I'm working now on the finer points of M/S micing and equalization to use in a session this weekend.

Very nice!

Quote:

Look, if anyone was offended by my comments, I'm sorry.  But as a new contributor to this forum, I was not welcomed with open arms and I over reacted.

Thanks for the apology. You must realize that these forums are very busy for the most part, so if we don't roll out the red carpet for everyone, don't be offended.

Regardless, welcome. I hope we can look forward to learning from and sharing with you.
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Brad Blackwood
euphonic masters

brett

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Re: Waves L3-16 Multimaximizer
« Reply #24 on: February 04, 2007, 06:22:10 AM »

dguidry wrote on Thu, 01 February 2007 19:12

 and can buy just about anything I want to get a better product..........

I think if I were working in a 96 or 196 environment on a TDM system (on which I use to work..48 channel procontrol with digi converters and preamps), with the L3, my masters would sound even better,but i'm mixing and mastering on an LE system at 24/44 clocked to an Apogee Big Ben and I'm willing to accept the difference in quality because the price threshold is so high.



Not trying to cause any trouble but this just seemed to be a little off to me. Using a PT HD system with digiconverters and pre-amps would not improve your sound in a mastering capacity. HD uses a 48bit double precision mix bus, your LE system is all 64 bit float. With the right converters your LE system would sound much better than even the largest HD rig with a front end comprised of Digi converters and preamps. digi converters should not even be in the same sentence with the word "master".

TDM is used in the industry for the ability to track large amounts of tracks simaltaniously and have realtime monitoring and mixing power. It is in essence a digital console in your computer. Take the cards away and the mixer now runs nativly with latency. It does not decrease quality of the signal. LE's front ends are worse than the TDM systems. You may want to consider adding some good direct boxes and pre's sent into a higher-end converter.  

PT really isn't designed for mastering.

And yes, outboard makes a huge diference in the analog world both tracking, mixing and mastering. If you have a track that requires somthing special, you need to have the tools for it. So given the same mix, yes diferent plug-ins and diferent outboard will make a diference. But a pro-control with 48 faders and digi I/O will not!!!
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Fergal T

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Re: Waves L3-16 Multimaximizer
« Reply #25 on: February 05, 2007, 11:44:07 AM »

dguidry wrote on Fri, 02 February 2007 21:15

Your sarcasm is ironic.  WWW.Soundtraining.com educates some of the world's best at sucking the life out the artistry of music, the D.J.  Before you critisize the use of plugins to accomplish what many are doing by buying the most expensive mastering hardware in the world, look first at what you have contributed to the industry of music.


Maybe I should have phrased that better... Wink

I didn't mean to suggest that a plugin can't do the job! I'm sure the plugin will do exactly what it says on the tin... I'm not a fan of waves' stuff, to be fair, but they work for many people, and their limiters work better at their task than the vast majority of outboard limiters. I'll use mainly DSP, and the only thing analogue I'll tend to use are nice pres, and EQs...

I just object to adding ridiculous amounts of bands to limiters... The law of diminishing returns kicked in along time ago... It's like Gillette bringing out a five blade razor...



And you make an assumption on what I teach. I don't teach people to be DJs! The DJ course is not an STC core course, it's taught in the night by a couple of the tutors here because we need to keep the college running - good music production education is loss making - we charge students 5k in second year and give them something like 20k's worth of studio time each, so in order to keep the music production courses going, we either have to 1/ Cut down the quality and hands on time, or 2/ run other courses on the side to subsidise the production students. If the website gives the impression that the DJ course is a major course, I'll change that... But hey, DJs will always exist, but surely the world is better off with DJs that know the principles of sound, and understand a bit about the music production process?

I teach music tech, and production. i.e. I educate people in the limitations of current technology, both analogue and digital - what it can't do as well as what it can, and try to get them to think about how they can make it better. We also look at the limitations of current productions, and get them thinking about how to make better recordings/mixes/masters than are out there today. Hell, I just did a class where we pointed out all the flaws that managed to get past through the mastering of the new album by the band currently with the number 2 single in the Billboard 100... (it's an over-polished mix but it's amazing what got through... check out the terrible plosive on track seven... HOW DID TED JENSEN LET THAT GO!!??? my guys fixed it in two seconds...)

If we can have students who at the end of the course won't be happy with any producion they do unless they feel it's better than the current best productions on the market, then I'm happy I'm contributing to the music industry...

Strangely it's very hard to get students to think this way. Its amazing how many engineers in Ireland simply aim for their latest recording to be better than their last recording, rather than to pick the best production they've ever heard, and try and beat it! People are just scared of getting a reality check and just like to stick their head in the sand. It takes a lot of beatings to get people to actually aim for better than the mediocre.

Hope this better explains our philosophy...

-Fergal
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duckhunter

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Re: Waves L3-16 Multimaximizer
« Reply #26 on: February 05, 2007, 03:03:02 PM »

With the description of that system, I was just giving you a sense of my background and the complexity of the system for reference.

Yes, I understand the floating bit difference. This is why one should be careful to use plugins that ramp way up on bit processing.  The waves maximizers provide built in plugin dithering and noise shaping.  That's why it makes a huge difference, in my opinion, when I use the L3-Mulitmaximzer on the master, first, followed by the L3-Multimaximizer.  For the first plugin the bit depth is set to noise shape the 24 bit processed signal, and then the second plugin, dithers this to 16 with its own noise shaping.  Many, I think, simply disingage the dithering in the first plugin and let the L3-Ultarmaximizer dither to 16 and noise shape.  

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Fergal T

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Re: Waves L3-16 Multimaximizer
« Reply #27 on: February 05, 2007, 03:12:14 PM »

dguidry wrote on Mon, 05 February 2007 20:03

With the description of that system, I was just giving you a sense of my background and the complexity of the system for reference.

Yes, I understand the floating bit difference. This is why one should be careful to use plugins that ramp way up on bit processing.  The waves maximizers provide built in plugin dithering and noise shaping.  That's why it makes a huge difference, in my opinion, when I use the L3-Mulitmaximzer on the master, first, followed by the L3-Multimaximizer.  For the first plugin the bit depth is set to noise shape the 24 bit processed signal, and then the second plugin, dithers this to 16 with its own noise shaping.  Many, I think, simply disingage the dithering in the first plugin and let the L3-Ultarmaximizer dither to 16 and noise shape.  





I thought that PT dithers to 24bits between plugins anyway, so doing that dither on this first one isn't critical - the only difference would be the quality of the dither that is used?

-Ferg
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duckhunter

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Re: Waves L3-16 Multimaximizer
« Reply #28 on: February 05, 2007, 04:17:52 PM »

I think Audiosuite processing in LE dithers plugins.  RTAS plugins might, as well, be dithered...it would make sense.  Anyone know the answer?  I beleve that RTAS plugins process at 48 bits, back down to 24 but without any noise shapping.  Who knows?
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Studio 89

duckhunter

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Re: Waves L3-16 Multimaximizer
« Reply #29 on: February 05, 2007, 04:52:53 PM »

I was a consultant to a local community college regarding their newly funded $1,000,000 film and audio department. They got a federal grant for the money, all of which was spent on High Def. Cameras, lights, etc, and a pro-tools TDM HD3 system and over $75,000 worth of microphones.  All of the stuff has been siting in a temporary studio collecting dust for 2 years, now.  I was the only one to use it.  They taught pro tools intro classes on workstations.  The whole program flopped because there was no promotion and the  equipment was never installed in the new studio because of beaurocratic malfeasence.  In fact, the last straw was the realization that the sudio consol room had been constructed such that the procontrol console would not fit and the room was not large enough to accomodate 5.1 monitoring.  I only provided technical advise regarding the system and had nothing to do with causing the problems.  I got fed up and disassociated myself with the school.  So I know it takes a lot to keep interest in an educational audio program going.  But these hurdles were impossible to overcome.
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Studio 89
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