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Author Topic: "Inconvenient Truth" banned, then unbanned in Seattle high school  (Read 5788 times)

J.J. Blair

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Some parent in Seattle got a bug up his ass that his kid's high school was going to make him watch An Inconvenient Truth, which apparently is required viewing in some Scandinavian countries.  Was this parent disagreeing with the fact that there's global warming?  No.  In fact, he says that the book of Revelations warns about this.  He's upset that the movie depicts humans as being responsible for it, and not God's wrath.  

So, he bitched to the school board who banned it.  Then other people bitched about them banning it, and they unbanned it ... sorta.  They said that if you are going to present a scientific argument for scientific observations, you have to present a second point of view.  You know, kinda like Intelligent Warming.  Maybe they can come up with a theory that all the consumption carbonated beverages, which has been proved to cause farting, is the real culprit.  The sulfur and methane released from our asses is the REALLY inconvenient truth.  

No offense to my born again friends who have more sense than this, but ... as a recovering born again, having grown up in that environment of literal interpretation (selectively), and superstition, this kind of thinking is an embarrassment.  While we are at it, let's teach alternatives to electricity and physics!  There's no gravity.  It's angels holding us to the ground, so we don't drift off into space!

I'd say that the best argument against the theory of evolution is that people this stupid have survived this long and thrived.  
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They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.

"The Internet enables pompous blowhards to interact with other pompous blowhards in a big circle jerk of pomposity." - Bill Maher

"The negative aspects of this business, not only will continue to prevail, but will continue to accelerate in madness. Conditions aren't going to get better, because the economics of rock and roll are getting closer and closer to the economics of Big Business America." - Bill Graham

Barry Hufker

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Re: "Inconvenient Truth" banned, then unbanned in Seattle high school
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2007, 09:00:19 pm »

Why didn't they just change from making it "required" viewing to making it a choice?  Seems so much easier.

Barry
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Socrates

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Re: "Inconvenient Truth" banned, then unbanned in Seattle high school
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2007, 10:08:09 pm »

J.J. Blair wrote on Fri, 26 January 2007 20:09

Some parent in Seattle got a bug up his ass that his kid's high school was going to make him watch An Inconvenient Truth, which apparently is required viewing in some Scandinavian countries.  Was this parent disagreeing with the fact that there's global warming?  No.  In fact, he says that the book of Revelations warns about this.  He's upset that the movie depicts humans as being responsible for it, and not God's wrath.  

So, he bitched to the school board who banned it.  Then other people bitched about them banning it, and they unbanned it ... sorta.  They said that if you are going to present a scientific argument for scientific observations, you have to present a second point of view.  You know, kinda like Intelligent Warming.  Maybe they can come up with a theory that all the consumption carbonated beverages, which has been proved to cause farting, is the real culprit.  The sulfur and methane released from our asses is the REALLY inconvenient truth.  

No offense to my born again friends who have more sense than this, but ... as a recovering born again, having grown up in that environment of literal interpretation (selectively), and superstition, this kind of thinking is an embarrassment.  While we are at it, let's teach alternatives to electricity and physics!  There's no gravity.  It's angels holding us to the ground, so we don't drift off into space!

I'd say that the best argument against the theory of evolution is that people this stupid have survived this long and thrived.  


Looks like you still have a lot of resentment.  Just for clarity, a second opinion for Inconvienent Truth would be a presentation by scientists who understand that the temperature of the earth goes up and down as the centuries go by and was in fact warmer 700 years ago than it is today.

Needless to say, something warmed us out of the ice age before the internal combustion engine was invented.
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wwittman

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Re: "Inconvenient Truth" banned, then unbanned in Seattle high school
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2007, 11:42:02 pm »

"scientists", you mean.
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William Wittman
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J.J. Blair

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Re: "Inconvenient Truth" banned, then unbanned in Seattle high school
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2007, 12:12:42 am »

Socrates, you must not understand the science behind this.  The real scientists are concerned about unprecedented CO2 levels in the atmosphere.  But that's another thread.  This thread is about superstitious myopians who think that we are living in the End Times.
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They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.

"The Internet enables pompous blowhards to interact with other pompous blowhards in a big circle jerk of pomposity." - Bill Maher

"The negative aspects of this business, not only will continue to prevail, but will continue to accelerate in madness. Conditions aren't going to get better, because the economics of rock and roll are getting closer and closer to the economics of Big Business America." - Bill Graham

Barry Hufker

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Re: "Inconvenient Truth" banned, then unbanned in Seattle high school
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2007, 12:34:48 am »

We are living in "The End Times"**.  It's just going to be a lot warmer with more water sports (such as swimming to your front door).  

T'ain't God's wrath.  Just the weather.

And while the subject of this thread is as J.J. described, there are professional meteorologists who actually believe this warming trend is nothing more than a natural Earth weather cycle.

Don't shoot me.  I'm only the messenger.

Barry

** How could we not be living in "The End Times"?  Everything after Christ's ascension into Heaven has essentially been "The End Times".  Maybe we should start saying "The Ender Times"...

By the way, having a "bug up one's ass" could be an important evolutionary trait!  Only time will tell if it is beneficial... I wonder what the new combination will become....
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Socrates

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Re: "Inconvenient Truth" banned, then unbanned in Seattle high school
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2007, 12:41:58 am »

J.J. Blair wrote on Sat, 27 January 2007 00:12

Socrates, you must not understand the science behind this.  The real scientists are concerned about unprecedented CO2 levels in the atmosphere.  But that's another thread.  This thread is about superstitious myopians who think that we are living in the End Times.



Hmmm, I thought that's what I was talking about.  All kinds of fundamentalisms aren't there?  Twisted Evil
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J.J. Blair

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Re: "Inconvenient Truth" banned, then unbanned in Seattle high school
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2007, 12:42:13 am »

Barry, once again, and I didn't want to make the thread about global warming, but the alarm is not about the temperature.  The alarm is about the fact that CO2 levels are hundreds of time higher than any point in the geological record of the last 350,000 or so years, starting this climb in the last century.  That's something that meteorologists aren't qualified to comment on.  But regardless, every single scientist of any credibility has signed on to this.

Even mainstream conservative christians have signed on with this, and are running an ad campaign.  It's jus those folks who think that the world is 6,000 years old who have a problem grasping the concept, it seems.
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They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.

"The Internet enables pompous blowhards to interact with other pompous blowhards in a big circle jerk of pomposity." - Bill Maher

"The negative aspects of this business, not only will continue to prevail, but will continue to accelerate in madness. Conditions aren't going to get better, because the economics of rock and roll are getting closer and closer to the economics of Big Business America." - Bill Graham

J.J. Blair

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Re: "Inconvenient Truth" banned, then unbanned in Seattle high school
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2007, 12:47:07 am »

Socrates wrote on Fri, 26 January 2007 21:41

Hmmm, I thought that's what I was talking about.  All kinds of fundamentalisms aren't there?  Twisted Evil


Sorry if I misunderstood you.  I took your post to be skeptical of the GW concept.

Ragardless, the difference between 700 years ago and now is that with ice cap and glacial conditions as they are, we don't have the luxury of enhancing what might be a natual trend.  But who knows, maybe angels will come and keep the ice caps from falling apart.
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They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.

"The Internet enables pompous blowhards to interact with other pompous blowhards in a big circle jerk of pomposity." - Bill Maher

"The negative aspects of this business, not only will continue to prevail, but will continue to accelerate in madness. Conditions aren't going to get better, because the economics of rock and roll are getting closer and closer to the economics of Big Business America." - Bill Graham

Socrates

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Re: "Inconvenient Truth" banned, then unbanned in Seattle high school
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2007, 12:47:07 am »

I consider the global warming alarmism to be a form of religious fundamentalism.


Well, the crisis is inescapable, but it sure is a moving target.  First global cooling, then warming, then "climate extremes", and now its just the co2.

Here is the latest:

Atmospheric CO2 levels have increased from about 315 ppm in 1958 to 378 ppm at the end of 2004, which means human activities have increased the concentration of atmospheric CO2 by 100 ppm or 36 percent.

Thats Parts Per Million.


Anyway, I know debating this will lead nowhere, but I do see cracks in the edifice of "scientific consensus". Word is getting out, the sceptics are being heard, and it will be a few years and there will be some sort of other crisis commanding that we do something that just so happens to fit a political agenda. As I pointed out, the crisis itself has already had to be adjusted to keep ahead of the debunking.

After a nice evening of Al Gore's film, why not curl up with a nice book like State of Fear--a medidation on the media's obsession with alarmism.
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Barry Hufker

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Re: "Inconvenient Truth" banned, then unbanned in Seattle high school
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2007, 12:57:49 am »

J.J.,

Global Warming: Don't worry.  I get it.  I am not espousing that view -- just mentioning it.

And for the record, I am against banning any art, religion, philosophy or science.  I wish some things didn't exist, and I wish some things would exist, but people eventually sort it all out for themselves.

What I've never understood is: Why some people want to shelter their kids from some ideas.  If you don't like what your kid is being exposed to then:
1. Remove your kid
2. Go with your kid
3. Bring the idea yourself to your kid and explain why it isn't right for you and your kid.

Why does everyone have to get bent out of shape just because...

Hiding your kid from the world, no matter what you believe, will only harm your child when she has to live in the world and deal on her own with all the crap you sheltered her from.

Barry


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Socrates

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Re: "Inconvenient Truth" banned, then unbanned in Seattle high school
« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2007, 01:05:11 am »

So far my kids have been exposed to an extremely one-sided political philosophy at public school.  So, I can pay for that school with my taxes and if I want to send them to a good school, I can pay for a private school as well--don't have the bucks, though.

When he was 14, my son won student of the month in an agressive defense of Christopher Columbus during his genocide trail.  My son pointed out factual errors in the textbook and during cross-examination got the teacher to admit he had made prejudicial remarks to the "jury" of students. And again, my taxes are paying for this crap. The science textbook contains creation myths from other cultures.

So, I don't like fundamentalisms of any form. Group-think, peer pressure to have correct thinking, shame-based persuasion techniques, name-calling, marginalizing those who disagree. Science in the service of ideology. My dad was a scientist, so I grew up wiht this notion of scientists as truth-seekers not advocates in search of grants. I can see that it was a naive conception, and it just sticks in my craw nonetheless.

The history of science teaches that many widely-held beliefs turned out to be wrong, and I think in the current age, we like to think we are too sophisticated for that sort of thing.
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danickstr

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Re: "Inconvenient Truth" banned, then unbanned in Seattle high school
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2007, 01:16:59 am »

Socrates, just out of curiosity, did you see the film?  I am guessing no because if you see the film you would have a bit better of a grasp of the severity of the situation.  

I am a cynic and sceptic about alarmist crap, but this is actual weather, not even science, really.  The CO2 changes the weather, and it is just that simple.  IF Greenland melting seems like religious fundamentalism, well then I'll see you in Waco, pass me the Kool-aid.
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wwittman

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Re: "Inconvenient Truth" banned, then unbanned in Seattle high school
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2007, 02:41:24 am »

Hey my kid went to college in Texas.
So I understand about a one-sided political slant.

Fortunately, by that age, he already knew they were wrong about everything.

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Socrates

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Re: "Inconvenient Truth" banned, then unbanned in Seattle high school
« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2007, 05:05:32 pm »

danickstr wrote on Sat, 27 January 2007 01:16

Socrates, just out of curiosity, did you see the film?  I am guessing no because if you see the film you would have a bit better of a grasp of the severity of the situation.  

I am a cynic and sceptic about alarmist crap, but this is actual weather, not even science, really.  The CO2 changes the weather, and it is just that simple.  IF Greenland melting seems like religious fundamentalism, well then I'll see you in Waco, pass me the Kool-aid.


I will not be seeing the film--I understand that it is quite persuasive if one is not familiar with atmospheric science.  I get my information from written sources and have been following this story for years and my dad pointed out the global cooling alarmism. I also spent some time at a party chatting with a geologist who was familiar with the body of weather knowledge revealed in ice core samples which revealed wide swings in average temp over the centuries, but also relatively rapid increases and declines.

Also, I seem to recall that co2 levels were higher in the 1950s and have declined somewhat since then but rising again. The primary determinant of our weather is the sun, and its activity varies somewhat in ways we have no way of understanding. The fact that most people don't realize that is a sad commmentary on the state of our educational and media institutions.

I think I have been too confrontational on this, and I can't blame people for believing what they are told hundereds of times a year from the media, and in a politician's movie. If one wants to get other sides to the story, the internet has many sources. To be fair, the fundamentalism applies to those who refuse to consider all sides of the story.  The media is pushing this story so hard, a person would have to be extremely sceptical of the media's agenda to not have a concern arising from thoughtful and responsible motives.

I debated this quite a bit on the marsh, and don't think I convinced a single person of anything they didn't already believe, so I will leave it at this post rather than offending everyone here over a relatively academic point.

As I write this, I am recalling that there has been unprecedented snow in las vegas and texas, and unusually cold temps in southern california. Every time it is unusually hot, the media touts it as proof of man-induced global warming, but when it is unusually cold that just 'proves' the other prong of the argument: "Climate Extremes."

Also, it ought to go without saying that the weather changes differently on different parts of the earth.  One can focus on one spot melting and neglect to mention another spot that is freezing.

I am not saying that I know c02 is not causing warming of some sort. what I am saying is we don't have sufficient scientific certainty of this--certainly not anything to lead to the unbridled speculation of dire consequences in the future.  Sure, there appear to be tens of thousands of scientists who are pushing this, and some of them are meterologists, but there are plenty who have contrary views, and they are getting zero air-time. Also, the degree to which vast numbers of scientists are dependent on government grants and tailor their public activies to ensure a stream of income is never reported in the media. Hell, we all have to make a living right? Anyone get a big raise going against the company line?

Will the earth get warmer?  It certainly could. It could get colder too. The core samples show that the earth's temps can vary a lot from century to century. Will things melt?  Maybe.  Did burning fossil fuels make things warmer?  Maybe. Now for the tough question: What realistically can be done about it?

Stop heating our houses in the winter, no more electricity, no more driving cars? Reduce the human population to 1900 levels and start wearing bear-skins and living off the land? Force developing countries to stop developing?

Now, I do like the idea of reducing fossil fuel consumption for other reasons.  Fossil fuel use contributes to our national trade deficit, it ties us to the unstable politics of the middle east, and it causes pollution. I am against these things.

Like I said before, I really don't like it when journalists feel their mission is 'making a difference' through selective reporting to promote an ideology.  I see science as a quest for the truth regarding physical things, and journalism as a quest to inform and educate.  Both of these conceptions are hoplessly naive, but they are ideals I use to measure the real world.

As far as greenland--it was melted when the vikings saw it, hence the name.
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