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Author Topic: IMP9 discussion thread.  (Read 14284 times)

ATOR

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Re: IMP9 discussion thread.
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2007, 12:42:30 pm »

Yup I was right. I pushed up the faders, ran a couple of tracks through a tubedriver, added a phaser and within 30mins I had a mix that I like way better than my old one. It still sounds like shit but this time it's supposed to sound like shit Very Happy  

(I also took special care of getting extra high voltage rising speeds Twisted Evil  )

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garret

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Re: IMP9 discussion thread.
« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2007, 01:31:30 pm »

Dang, there's a ton of submissions... been listening/reviewing for an hour, and I'm only half way through.

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j.hall

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Re: IMP9 discussion thread.
« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2007, 01:42:09 pm »

Thomas Lester wrote on Wed, 10 January 2007 10:09

Hey J -

Thanks for the report on my mix.  I'm honored that you'd dedicated a whole post to just me  Razz

BTW...  my link broke on the submission list, here's mine:  http://www.prosoundweb.com/imp/files/IMP9_tlester.mp3





you link is fixed in the submission thread.

no sweat on the post, i plan to pick three more entries to review

i've listened to all of them, just need to go back and pick the three i think show different things worth discussing.
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j.hall

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Re: IMP9 discussion thread.
« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2007, 01:44:39 pm »

Vladislavs Korehovs wrote on Wed, 10 January 2007 11:33



Have i said something funny?


i think in general you are focusing a lot on the technical, which is what we are trying to get away from.

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scottoliphant

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Re: IMP9 discussion thread.
« Reply #19 on: January 10, 2007, 02:04:44 pm »

My thoughts:
Love the tune. right up my alley, have recorded / played with folks who have the same "vibe" or "style" or whatever you want to call it. I've been trying to use these imps as a way to really look at the song from the outside and find the emotional thing within the song, and then try to bring that out. It's harder on stuff I work on, and am deep in the weeds with. Something I'm striving to get better at. It's easier here, when the song is fresh to my ears. I didn't use any sound replacement, or editing of drums / other intruments. I don't think it detracted much from the song for this guys audience, or for me. I latched on to the "anthemic" quality of the song, and wanted to try and bring that out. kind of an arcade fire / spiritualized / wolf parade thing in my mind while working.

My comments:
Everyone did a nice job, please don't take anything personal =) just wanted to give my honest reaction to the mixes.

greg dixon - nice use of the high double pass part. kind of old school there. could have done something more with the tamborine part? kudos for a "quiet" mix, nicely done.

nick evans - beginning seems a little sparse to me without the guitar, maybe cause i've heard it a hundred times the other way. something weird seems to be going on with the vox? see first verse "of a story stupid crippled and ancient", gets a little illegible, de-essing? there was quite a bit of sibilance there. in the first verse, it's very left speaker heavy, not a bad thing, jut an observation. the distorted rhodes seems to overpower the chorus in the end, which to me seemed the real anthemic / meat part of the song. good job though.

ATOR - little delay eh? nice. makes the drums feel like they were playing 8ths. missed a big crescendo at the end (and on quite of few of these). liked the removal of the drums at end, interesting take. nicely done

Cary - some weird high pitched screech thing going on. hi hat sounds a little "tweaked" high end wise. snare replaced? maybe not.  I'd be interested to know why folks immediately replaced the snare, or other drums. they seemed to be totally workable.

maxim - low end! sounds like there is another bass sub part of something. losing the kick in the bass. the drum kit sounds like a snare, instead of kit. Vocals get louder in second verse? Interesting echo thing going on. whoa flanger! interesting take.

nizzle - high end seems a bit tweaky? seems to distract me, especially on the HH. makes drums seem a little mechanical. nice wide stereo spread. nice delay dive towards end, and effects work. good job

spoon - interesting panning. seems like more "life" could have been brought out of the drums. are the 2 guitar tracks panned opposite? makes for a slightly boxy sound. good job

icombs - a little limited =) ? kind of took something away from it for me. everything was brought way up against the speaker like i had my face pressed against the glass.

garret - whoa, kind of crazy. am i hearing this right? drums gone? not sure what's happening here. sped up? comes together a little more in last chorus. would be interesting to hear your thoughts on how you got here or what you were going for.
hephaluem - HH and kick! interesting. almost sounds like a breakbeat thing, minus the fills. end sounds a little overlimited to me

judah - after some of the "bright" mixes, this one was like a throat lozenge. in a good way. losing kick. good job

mark fasse - nothing really jumping out at me as bad, but nothing else jumping out either. you've set the levels fairly well.

singsing- weird phasor or something on the bass? losing snare, maybe too much limiter for this exercise. the bass takes over for me at the end.

six wax - the balance seems weird on this, like something was flipped out of phase or something (right side?). the vocals sound way up, like it's a headphone mix, not sitting well for me in mix. I appreciate the phil spetcre-esque "bah-bah bah bah" at the end with the tamborine.

tlester - very pro-sounding "tight" mix. drum samples? doesn't totally fir the style of the song for me, or my aesthetic, but you've done a good job.

vkorehov - kind of late 80's / 90's sounding to me, take that for whatever it's worth. May be my personal aversion to the chorus like effect on the guitar. something weird happening to the drums in the chorus. same weird vocal thing, over essed maybe? interesting adding of the upper harmony. missing balls from the kick

chrisj - big ol bass.  seems to overpower the center of the mix a little. losing the drums in the chorus, and kick throughout

dconstruction - your tune! nicely done. maybe it's a little bias now we know it's you =).  nice tight lows. like the compressed drums. Was this mastered? only thing for me is the vocals lack any bottom, but probably for effect. thanks for the tune! good job again

henchman - wow, that's sparkle. I feel like I'm listening to a drum machine and an 80's cover band. chorus is nice.well balanced, just not my cup of tea

jhall - another stereo drum spread! like it. nice energy. nice tight bass and imaging. the snare on the right side, is there a little higher pitched sample mixed in? It almost has a woodblock kind of "tic toc" thing going. the distortion in the chorus would be a little much for me on the vox, but i see what you were going for. the end is got a lot of groove, nice job

macmandude - the amp sim like effect on the vocal has some frequencies that are fatiguing for me. i like the overdriven bass. nice kick and tight drums. well balanced

tomc - the vocals are a little to phone line effected for me, along with the rest of it. I feel like there was a lot of high / low passing, and i'm getting mainly mid on the whole mix. the drums aren't doing anything for me, but as a drummer, I'm obsessive about drums.

wes pitzer - the tight little snare is a little funny for me in the chorus. the vocals seemed to have lost a lot of the mid and lows. the "pod" guitar as "main focus"in the end chorus takes away from the big emotional finish of the song. nice overall


thanks again! was fun
scott







(edited by the moderator to add carriage returns between reviews)

spoon

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Re: IMP9 discussion thread.
« Reply #20 on: January 10, 2007, 02:21:53 pm »

Me too.  I want to know what his thinking was like.

I totally loved this, whether by design or a happy accident.  I think this one was the cat's meow!

Regards,
spoon

scottoliphant wrote on Wed, 10 January 2007 13:04


garret - whoa, kind of crazy. am i hearing this right? drums gone? not sure what's happening here. sped up? comes together a little more in last chorus. would be interesting to hear your thoughts on how you got here or what you were going for.


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Cary Holding

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Re: IMP9 discussion thread.
« Reply #21 on: January 10, 2007, 02:50:26 pm »

scottoliphant wrote on Wed, 10 January 2007 14:04

Cary - some weird high pitched screech thing going on. hi hat sounds a little "tweaked" high end wise. snare replaced? maybe not.  I'd be interested to know why folks immediately replaced the snare, or other drums. they seemed to be totally workable.



Thanks for taking the time to comment.  I'd like to understand more about your comment on the high pitched thing.  Reading a comment like that doesn't give me a nice fuzzy feeling.

Regarding the drums, those are the original drum tracks - not replaced.  I may have a little 12k high shelf on the OH.  I'll take a look later.

I have done very little in the way of beater and resonant mic on kick drum.  I found that resonant track surprising.  It was not at all what I thought I'd hear.  I didn't use it.
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Cary

garret

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Re: IMP9 discussion thread.
« Reply #22 on: January 10, 2007, 02:53:13 pm »

spoon wrote on Wed, 10 January 2007 14:21

Me too.  I want to know what his thinking was like.

I totally loved this, whether by design or a happy accident.  I think this one was the cat's meow!

Regards,
spoon



Whew, I convinced one person... that's a relief.

All my tweakery was by design... I decided early on to just go for it, dam the torpedoes, full speed ahead.  

I'm more of a songwriter/producer than anything else, so the major problems that jumped out at me were:

1) the verses are all identical... I think the lyrics are even the same?  I think tunes need to evolve constantly, so fixing this was one of my major objectives.  At the same time, I wanted to improve the dynamics, making the tune build up naturally...

2) the drums are, imho, a letdown... they don't do enough to support the stunning vocals, guitars, etc.  Maybe because I've never been a drummer, I'd rather hear no drums than weak drums. Smile   There's enough rhythmic interplay in the guitars (especially the bass double, which ended up central to my mix after I reamped the heck out of it) that I think the tune can survive long stretches without em.

To solve the first problem, I tweaked the verses like this:
-- first verse, just the kick...
-- second verse, bring in the snare, just on the 4s, and make it big (though maybe not big enough now that I listen again)
-- third verse, drop out the elec guitars so the vocal and bass are features, and the arrangement can seethe, burn and collect itself for a big last chorus.  I also brought in some echoes of the vocal from a previous verse.

For the second problem, I built some extra rhythm tracks with tempo sync'd delays, then comp'd together a more inventive arrangement. I didn't do any time-correction or sample replacement.. what you're hearing is just a subset of the original tracks, plus two tracks I manufactured -- the hi hat, and a doubled kick drum (the double is an eight note later I think).

I wanted the choruses to bounce a bit, to get some contrast with the straight verses, so I brought the funky delayed hi hat way up...  Last bunch of indie rock shows I've been to, something strange going on... these kids, they dance.  Dismemberment plan a few years back, I swear I saw someone moonwalk.

Speeding up the track was a last minute whim... A few weeks back, there was a thread on PSW about how common varispeed was in the tape days.  After some fiddling, I figured out that I could use r8brain to do a very clean "sample rate varispeed."  So given that this tune was played slower than I'd prefer (booze will do that, as I can attest from experience), I figured I'd try it out.  I think mine is just a few bpm faster than the original... the sample rate I used to varispeed was 42500.

-Garret
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garret

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Re: IMP9 discussion thread.
« Reply #23 on: January 10, 2007, 02:54:17 pm »

Cary Holding wrote on Wed, 10 January 2007 14:50


I have done very little in the way of beater and resonant mic on kick drum.  I found that resonant track surprising.  It was not at all what I thought I'd hear.  I didn't use it.



Agreed... I used only the beater track... I wonder what the story was with the resonant kick.
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scottoliphant

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Re: IMP9 discussion thread.
« Reply #24 on: January 10, 2007, 03:06:11 pm »

Quote:

Thanks for taking the time to comment. I'd like to understand more about your comment on the high pitched thing. Reading a comment like that doesn't give me a nice fuzzy feeling.
It's not a personal attack, was just trying to give an honest review of what I heard. We all need to take things with a grain of salt, and need to expect to thicken up our skin a bit when we open ourselves up to critique by 20+ people with different aesthetics. Someone else may love your mix. Everyone may hate my mix. I'm open to whatever, and accept that due the nature of the beast. I wasn't trying to be mean, just report on my experience with the track. I heard some weird high pitched thing, maybe it was the mp3 compression, maybe it was just me, but i assumed not since i didn't hear it anywhere elsewhere. I'll check again when i get back home and see if i can be more specific.

spoon

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Re: IMP9 discussion thread.
« Reply #25 on: January 10, 2007, 03:07:35 pm »

Well bravo sir, BRAVO!  

Here are my notes on your submission:

"Garret- If the drum treatment was intentional, I LOVED it...lo-fi, querky with a good bit of cheese.  
Overall the song has a wonderful lofi quality to it...while still maintaining a good instrument balance.  
I wished the vox was up just a bit.  
I love the vibe this mix created.  
Like the echo on the second verse...just to mix it up even MORE!  Didnt use the tamborine huh."

Alot of my comments are rhetorical in that I am just observing what some people used and didnt use versus what I did or did not use...that Tamborine comment is exactly that.


Anyway, gold star to Garret...

spoon



garretg wrote on Wed, 10 January 2007 13:53

spoon wrote on Wed, 10 January 2007 14:21

Me too.  I want to know what his thinking was like.

I totally loved this, whether by design or a happy accident.  I think this one was the cat's meow!

Regards,
spoon



Whew, I convinced one person... that's a relief.

All my tweakery was by design... I decided early on to just go for it, dam the torpedoes, full speed ahead.  

I'm more of a songwriter/producer than anything else, so the major problems that jumped out at me were:

1) the verses are all identical... I think the lyrics are even the same?  I think tunes need to evolve constantly, so fixing this was one of my major objectives.  At the same time, I wanted to improve the dynamics, making the tune build up naturally...

2) the drums are, imho, a letdown... they don't do enough to support the stunning vocals, guitars, etc.  Maybe because I've never been a drummer, I'd rather hear no drums than weak drums. Smile   There's enough rhythmic interplay in the guitars (especially the bass double, which ended up central to my mix) that I think the tune can survive long stretches without em.

To solve the first problem, I tweaked the verses like this:
-- first verse, just the kick...
-- second verse, bring in the snare, just on the 4s, and make it big (though maybe not big enough now that I listen again)
-- third verse, drop out the elec guitars so the vocal and bass are features, and the arrangement can seethe, burn and collect itself for a big last chorus.  I also brought in some echoes of the vocal from a previous verse.

For the second problem, I built some extra rhythm tracks with tempo sync'd delays, then comp'd together a more inventive arrangement. I didn't do any time-correction or sample replacement.. what you're hearing is just a subset of the original tracks, plus two tracks I manufactured -- the hi hat, and a doubled kick drum (the double is an eight note later I think).

I wanted the choruses to bounce a bit, to get some contrast with the straight verses, so I brought the funky delayed hi hat way up...  Last bunch of indie rock shows I've been to, something strange going on... these kids, they dance.  Dismemberment plan a few years back, I swear I saw someone moonwalk.

Speeding up the track was a last minute whim... A few weeks back, there was a thread on PSW about how common varispeed was in the tape days.  After some fiddling, I figured out that I could use r8brain to do a very clean "sample rate varispeed."  So given that this tune was played slower than I'd prefer (booze will do that, as I can attest from experience), I figured I'd try it out.  I think mine is just a few bpm faster than the original... the sample rate I used to varispeed was 42500.

-Garret


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Cary Holding

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Re: IMP9 discussion thread.
« Reply #26 on: January 10, 2007, 03:09:03 pm »

scottoliphant wrote on Wed, 10 January 2007 15:06

Quote:

Thanks for taking the time to comment. I'd like to understand more about your comment on the high pitched thing. Reading a comment like that doesn't give me a nice fuzzy feeling.
It's not a personal attack, was just trying to give an honest review of what I heard. We all need to take things with a grain of salt, and need to expect to thicken up our skin a bit when we open ourselves up to critique by 20+ people with different aesthetics. Someone else may love your mix. Everyone may hate my mix. I'm open to whatever, and accept that due the nature of the beast. I wasn't trying to be mean, just report on my experience with the track. I heard some weird high pitched thing, maybe it was the mp3 compression, maybe it was just me, but i assumed not since i didn't hear it anywhere elsewhere. I'll check again when i get back home and see if i can be more specific.


Thats fine Scott, I wasn't offended.  It's just if there's something wrong that I'm not hearing, I want to be able to understand why.  Thanks.  Smile
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Cary

spoon

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Re: IMP9 discussion thread.
« Reply #27 on: January 10, 2007, 03:12:11 pm »

I think this one came out VERY well.  
I think every submission could be released to the public (with some minor mastering).

Well bowled sirs, well bowled!


Here are my notes and observations:

ATOR- Very nice.  Nice vox, clear, not silabant.  Nice Rhodes panning. Great balance. Nice polished mix. Didnt use the tamborine huh.##

Cary- Very smooth intro, nice touch.  Tight drums, nice (replaced ?).  Nice Vox, but low...chorus even lower. Good instrument balance. Like the "additional guitar" added in 1st verse. Nice polished mix. Didnt use the tamborine huh.##

Chrisj- Raw...like that.  The guitars are in a midrange-box-room.  A bit bass heavy...puts the drums in the back abit much as well as the other accent instruments; very appearant in the outro.  Nice vocal treatment. abit low though.  Like the instrument growth on the second chorus. Didnt use the tamborine huh.

dconstruction- Are the leftside drums replaced?  Very drum-machine sounding...interesting effect.  Vocal forward, nice...the verse vox treatment makes the chorus vox seem muffled.  Like the delay on the Wurlitzer...very smooth.  Used the Tamborine.

Garret- If the drum treatment was intentional, I LOVED it...lo-fi, querky with a good bit of cheese.  Overall the song has a wonderful lofi quality to it...while still maintaining a good instrument balance.  I wished the vox was up just a bit.  I love the vibe this mix created.  Like the echo on the second verse...just to mix it up even MORE!  Didnt use the tamborine huh.

Gatino- Good overall balance.  Love the chorus vox.  It seemed to be driven by the snare, was that your intention? Didnt use the tamborine huh.

Greg Dixon- Dry little drums.  Vox has a nice treatment, but a bit low.  Bass is a bit wooly.  Overall a very warm feeling mix...was this intentional...has a nice 1/2" tascam 8 track feel. Like the outro's feel.  Didnt use the tamborine huh.

Henchman- Nice crisp, tight drums.  Wonderful vox treatment on verse...nice presence.  Good balance overall.  Chorus vox is abit low.  Nice chorus instrument balance.  The FX on the chorus rhodes was very nice (filetered delay with some reverb?).  Smart outro. Didnt use the tamborine huh.

HephaLuemp-  Raw intro.  Did you mono all the drum tracks?  Very nice verse vox, nice treatment and volume.  Nice chorus vox.  I like what you did to the rhodes at chorus time, fills up the track nicely.  Sounds even better on the outro.  Used the tamborine!

iCombs-  Great instrument balance....use of both drums. The vocals have an interesting squished quality to them...did you do anything out of the ordinary to them? Didnt use the tamborine huh.

JHall-  Very spacious drums...seem even wider.  Nice vocal treatment.  A touch more volume maybe.  Like the distorted (slightly) backing vocals. Track as a whole has a distortion to it...what did you use?  Didnt use the tamborine huh.

LouMan- Very nice balance, instruments and vocals...drums seems a bit low only during the chorus.  Phasey chorus vocals blend with the rhodes nicely. Didnt use the tamborine huh.

MarkFasset- I like the vocal FX...I could use a little more volume.  I like the bass heavy kick...creates a driving quality that moves the song along.  I like the fade out of the last chorus vox, nice touch.  Hey, used the tamborine.

Max-  Cool FX on the right channel mimicing the wurlitzer.  Nice reuse of that instrument too.  Great vocal treatment.  A bit bass heavy, demotes the drums a bit.  Like the outro FX on the bass.  Hey another tamborine.

Mark Evans-  Nice sparse intro, tight and dry.  Good balance...more verse vocals ( touch), great at the chorus.  Rhodes a bit much at the chorus.  Good overall feel.  Used the Tamborine.

NickT- Tight drums (replaced ?).  Nice crisp feel to the mix, good balance.  Like the vocal treatment and presence. Smooth outro.

Nizzle-  Very spacious mix.  Love the Wurlitzer FX.  Wish the vocals had a bit more volume.  Good song balance.  Nice vibe...again very spacious, gives it the "live" feeling.  The chorus vocals need more volume.  Love the "fly-bys" in the 2nd chorus.

Rankus- Dry tight groove.  Like the drum treatement.  The vox is very nice, but a tad low.  Nice chorus vocals.  Like the outro treatment on the Rhodes.  Used the Tamborine!

Scotch-  Nice balance and finally someone uses the double bass.  Good vocal treatments.  Nice panning on bridge before 2nd verse. Polished mix.  Smooth outro. Didnt use the tamborine huh.

Scott Oliphant-  Spacious mix...I am a sucker for reverb.  I like the vocal treatment.  The drums have a crisp snare, did you replace it? Good overall balance.  The chorus seemed just a tad unfocused.  Fun outro (filters and such).  Backwards Tamborine!!

singsing-  Good drum treatment.  Song has a dry immediate feel.  Very nice vocals on verse and chorus.  Tamborine!

six wax-  Nice warm, tight drums, good balance with nice vocal treatment. Chorus sounds dood, too.  Like the outro treatment Tamborine!

tlester-  Nice drums, crisp and tight (did you replace the snare?).  Nice Vox sound all around, immediate and intimate verse vox.  No Tamborine.

TomC-  Box sounding mix, lots of mids.  Nice vocal harmonies (what did you use?).  Small drums. Nice chorus vox.  Tamborine!

Undertow-  Big drums (replaced?)...sound good.  Bass makes the verse vox sound low.  No Tamborine.

VKorehov-  A bit of a muddy mix...cant tell if it is from the bass or the guitar FX.  Overall the feel is very intimate and foward even with the ambient guitars.  Given the busy mix, the vox appear to be a tad low in volume.  No Tamborine.

Volthouse- The mix sounds pressed.  It has good balance with the bass and guitars fight ever so slightly for the same space.

Redfro- Very nice balance.  Vox is a bit low or the bass is a bit high.  The mix has a bit of a dark quality over it which I assume is by design...what did you use?  Like the chorus vocal FX.  Breaks up the conservative classic-ness of the verse.  Yay, Tamborine! (walking even.)
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garret

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Re: IMP9 discussion thread.
« Reply #28 on: January 10, 2007, 03:15:58 pm »

spoon wrote on Wed, 10 January 2007 15:07

Well bravo sir, BRAVO!  

Here are my notes on your submission:

"Garret- If the drum treatment was intentional, I LOVED it...lo-fi, querky with a good bit of cheese.  
Overall the song has a wonderful lofi quality to it...while still maintaining a good instrument balance.  
I wished the vox was up just a bit.  
I love the vibe this mix created.  
Like the echo on the second verse...just to mix it up even MORE!  Didnt use the tamborine huh."



Thanks very much.  I did use the tamb, btw... starts around 2:45.
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j.hall

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Re: IMP9 discussion thread.
« Reply #29 on: January 10, 2007, 03:39:38 pm »

spoon wrote on Wed, 10 January 2007 14:12


JHall-  Very spacious drums...seem even wider.  Nice vocal treatment.  A touch more volume maybe.  Like the distorted (slightly) backing vocals. Track as a whole has a distortion to it...what did you use?  Didnt use the tamborine huh.



distortion is a combo of things.  Lo-Fi on vox, massive amounts of compression on the drums with release times that are too fast.  tambo is in there at the end.

scottoliphant wrote on Wed, 10 January 2007 13:04


jhall - another stereo drum spread! like it. nice energy. nice tight bass and imaging. the snare on the right side, is there a little higher pitched sample mixed in? It almost has a woodblock kind of "tic toc" thing going. the distortion in the chorus would be a little much for me on the vox, but i see what you were going for. the end is got a lot of groove, nice job



no samples used on this mix.  you're just hearing some extreme compression on the right side kit.
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