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Author Topic: Help on buying a mixing console  (Read 6777 times)

djklocek

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Help on buying a mixing console
« on: January 06, 2007, 09:24:26 am »

Hello.
I'm a newbie so please forgive me if I put this in a wrong place. I have a question. I want to buy a mixing console to which I'll be sending 4 ADATs (32 tracks) and want to mix them. My budget is quite small so I've been thinking of Yamaha o2R. Is there a better proposition for me? I'll be using it for recording either, using some additional mic preamps but sometimes I'll have to use the yamaha's ones. Should I consider something else or stay with yamaha o2R. Moreover I heard that there are few versions of o2R and some are much better than other so if yamaha which one should I chose?
And if not yamaha then what?

Best regards and thanks in advance
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djklocek

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Re: Help on buying a mixing console
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2007, 03:55:51 am »

Just checked it out but nobody helped me yet Sad
Can somebody help me? I'm in despair Rolling Eyes
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Les Ismore

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Re: Help on buying a mixing console
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2007, 11:05:55 pm »

Never liked the O2Rs that much myself. You might try this over at Harvey Gerst's forum, as you might get more responses. You can pick up all sorts of consoles these days for not much coin.
Depends on what style of music you're doing as well. An O2R would be fine for cleaner jazz or acoustic style probably, but not so great for rock IMO. Some of the Soundcraft consoles were quite nice and can be picked up real cheap these days.
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Pete Honychurch - Fluid Sound
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MI

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Re: Help on buying a mixing console
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2007, 11:02:01 am »

Hi,

You'd definetly want a console with an analogue flavour to it if you're going to use ADAT's and doing Rock. The 02R had nice features, but IMHO not flattering sound wise.

I would not recomend a Mackie 8bus nor Behringer MX9000...
Although with the right outboard you can make them work for you.

Consider a good Neotek, Amek, Soundcraft -1624 or 2400 or TS-12.

A Yamaha PM2000 is a killer console for the money if you can find one.

What they lack in automation will be made up for in sound.

Don't know what your budget is?

Keep in mind you may need to be handy with electronics and a welding iron because some older boards will probably need maitenence.

Good luck.

MI





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djklocek

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Re: Help on buying a mixing console
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2007, 04:05:44 am »

Thanks guys.
I was looking on auctions and found some of you were talking about but exceeding my budget. I'd like the analog flavor but if it would be at a cost of continous repairs I cannot do it. I can buy an 02R for about a grand with 2 adat ins and 2 extensions cards for about 100$ each so for about 1200$ I'll have my console ready to work.
Kinda stuck with it but unfortunately it looks like I have no choice.
Thank you anyway and best regards
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hargerst

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Re: Help on buying a mixing console
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2007, 11:24:59 am »

The Soundtracs 32x8 Topaz is a pretty nice console and goes pretty cheap these days.
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Harvey "Is that the right note?" Gerst
Indian Trail Recording Studio

redfro

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Re: Help on buying a mixing console
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2007, 10:32:14 pm »

If you wanna hear what one sounds like for mixing only check out my IMP submission in J. Hall's joint.

Or for tracking and mixing check out...
Shaolin Death Squad

All done on a Topaz 32x8.

But I suck, so maybe not....


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Wes Pitzer
WCS Media

hargerst

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Re: Help on buying a mixing console
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2007, 10:52:49 pm »

Here are a couple of WAV files of songs tracked and mixed on a Soundtracs Topaz 32x8:

http://www.itrstudio.com/Soul.wav

http://www.itrstudio.com/No.wav
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Harvey "Is that the right note?" Gerst
Indian Trail Recording Studio

Roundbadge

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Re: Help on buying a mixing console
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2007, 09:54:02 pm »

The new Toft ATB's are damn fine..
will kill the 02R/Mackie/Topaz crap sonically for rock..
Has a Trident 80B vibe.
EQ's are suprisingly good.great build quality.
32 channels for probably lees than 5K
New with a warranty
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Hunter F. C.

russhurley

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Re: Help on buying a mixing console
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2007, 04:58:23 am »

Chaps, i saw this forum, and thought it was worthy of comment.

There is a lot of subjective advice going on here.

For example, if you put a trident against an 02R, the trident would win hands down in the flattery department. But if you wanted to make an aggressive record, the 02R would wipe the floor with it.

I'm like my analogue stuff just as much as the next guy, but i would choose a Yamaha any day of the week over an old school desk when I'm in the studio. Part of the reason is because i know how to get the best sound out of them, and party because the ultra-agressive, dogs-bollocks EQ adds severe thump, while fully retaining the definition, something that the trident for example can't do.

Analogue desks can sound very nice indeed, but watch out for that eq making it so warm, it becomes baggy.' I was at a friends house recently, trying to get a contemporary sound out of a Trident, and it was virtually impossible - i'm not saying it sounded poor - it sounded wonderful. But that is not what everyone needs.

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redfro

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Re: Help on buying a mixing console
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2007, 02:52:19 pm »

russhurley wrote on Wed, 17 January 2007 03:58


...
For example, if you put a trident against an 02R, the trident would win hands down in the flattery department. But if you wanted to make an aggressive record, the 02R would wipe the floor with it.

I'm like my analogue stuff just as much as the next guy, but i would choose a Yamaha any day of the week over an old school desk when I'm in the studio. Part of the reason is because i know how to get the best sound out of them, and party because the ultra-agressive, dogs-bollocks EQ adds severe thump, while fully retaining the definition, something that the trident for example can't do.

Analogue desks can sound very nice indeed, but watch out for that eq making it so warm, it becomes baggy.' I was at a friends house recently, trying to get a contemporary sound out of a Trident, and it was virtually impossible - i'm not saying it sounded poor - it sounded wonderful. But that is not what everyone needs.




I've had the exact opposite experience. The Yamaha eq, to me, is thin and useless. A REALLY bad example of digital eq.

And to say that you can't get an aggressive sound out of a Trident is....well, you be the judge.

All these bands record at Cherokee Studios, home of a beautiful Trident A range..

Jimmy Eat World
Jane's Addiction
Fishbone
Goldfinger
Henry Rollins
Slayer
Sparta
Queens of the Stone Age
30 Seconds to Mars
311

And I'd be willing to bet that MOST of the albums that most people consider "aggressive rock" have been eq'ed with analog eq...

But, YMMV...
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Wes Pitzer
WCS Media

Steve Rodway

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Re: Help on buying a mixing console
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2007, 07:10:36 pm »

You havn't told us what sort of music you intend to make. That is  key.

The O2R is good for dance or electronic music not so much because it may or may not have "aggressive" eq (you can easily get aggressive digital eq via a multitude of plug ins so I wouldn't buy an O2R for the eq) but rather because of its cost and automation features. Whilst however the mic pre's are usable they're certainly nothing special. You won't get the desirable artifacts that an analogue desk will give you from an O2R but then depending on the style of music you're doing that may not be a problem.

Dance music is cheap to produce and the O2R certainly offers plenty of "bang for your buck" in the second hand market with it's recall capabilities.

However purists would probably choose a good analogue desk if they were thinking of doing more than just dance music. That isn't to say that good dance music cannot be done on an old analogue desk because there are numerous examples of that (and yes the Trident does have an aggressive eq which is why together with their pre-amps they are popular for tracking guitars).

If you're on a budget like 1200 whether it's pounds,dollars or euros you can forget a Trident 80b or Series 70 so we shouldn't become distracted and lose focus on djklocek's original question which is that he's on a small budget and needs at least 32 tracks. That limits the options considerably.

That said digitally you're looking at an O2R or a D8B. I've heard good dance mixes on both 02R's and D8B's but of those two I would go for the D8B just becasue it's newer but the O2R may be cheaper second hand I'm not sure.

Analogue wise, Soundtracs Topaz, Solo, IL3632,MX series or Megas (Sountracs are in general very reliable desks), Soundcraft Sapphyre, Spirit,Delta, Ghost, etc but 32 tracks is going to be the problem as that's at the rarer end of cheaper desks.

Size may also be a factor, what space have you got? Do you want a large desk or a small one? Between  budget, size and musical style, you should be able to whittle it down to a few contenders.

Finally bear this in mind, the choice of mixing console is just one of the links in the chain to making music. These are just tools, it's how you use them that counts. I've heard some amazing records done on cheap desks and some aweful ones on very expensive desks. In short if as an engineer you know what you're doing you can work with most desks within reason and get good to great results - just don't expect the desk or for that matter any single piece of equipment however legendary - to do it for you because it won't!


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redfro

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Re: Help on buying a mixing console
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2007, 10:30:44 pm »

Dead-on advice....

...and sorry about the Trident rant, it's been along day...
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Wes Pitzer
WCS Media

blaccard

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Re: Help on buying a mixing console
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2007, 12:21:14 pm »

Not for anything, the guy is sending 32 tracks of ADAT out.  Can you do it with the Trident... yes, ONLY IF YOU USE GOOD OUTBOARD CONVERTERS and then do the D/A to A/D thing.

I'm not being sarcastic here, but I'm finding people here tend not to really comprehend people's questions anymore on these forums. Look at the original post.

The newer Tascam DM3200 is the hot ticket for grabbing 32 tracks of ADAT and mixing out of the box... for a budget of $2300 plus the cost of 2 ADAT cards or if you have a format converter already, then no cards. If you're looking for a cheaper alternative, try a used DM-24 with ADAT option cards or again none needed if you have a format converter. You can still mix down with 32 channels but certain internal features like gates and compression may not be available.

Personally both Tascam and Yamaha bother me, because they release products so fast and drop models so fast, your investment becomes worthless. Getting any of these consoles repaired becomes a hassle and my experiance has been that most service centers just change out boards rather than fix components on a board level. I have used both the DM series and the O2R's.  Both crash from time to time and both are discontinued from their manufacturers.

http://www.myspace.com/blaccardsbands
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Thanks,

Paul Blaccard

mcolbert

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Re: Help on buying a mixing console
« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2007, 05:28:25 am »

go to hollywood...sunset blvd. break into oceanway ( dont tell allen i told you to ) get into room "A" if you can, steal jack joeseph's focusrite console....then bring it to me. ill trade you my old 002 for it.
im a fair and resonable man.
Smile
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listen...do you smell something?
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