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Author Topic: new tune I'm working on...  (Read 2865 times)

garret

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new tune I'm working on...
« on: December 11, 2006, 01:20:06 PM »

Heya guys... been writing and recording a lot lately without any outside feedback.   Here's a new one I'd love to share...

Alley Cats

Whatcha think?  Any feedback would be appreciated...  songwriting/arrangement/tracking/performance/mixing/whatever .

-G
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Tom C

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Re: new tune I'm working on...
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2006, 04:38:43 PM »

garretg wrote on Mon, 11 December 2006 19:20

Heya guys... been writing and recording a lot lately without any outside feedback.   Here's a new one I'd love to share...

Alley Cats

Whatcha think?  Any feedback would be appreciated...   songwriting/arrangement/tracking/performance/mixing/whatever .

-G


I like the song, especially the chorus, very proggy.

Things I'd have a closer look at:

- it's a bit dry, I'd play around with some reverb to put
 everything (especially the drums, singer and acoustic guitar)
 in a room I can see when I close my eyes. I can't see a room
 now.

- the hi-hats suck a bit. They sound exactly like they were
 recorded in a garage, a completely different room compared
 to the rest.

- somehow the bass in the 1. verse feels slow, it holds back the
 groove instead of pushing it forward.

I think this song has a lot of potential when you glue everything
together a bit more.

Would be a good song for an IMP



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scottoliphant

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Re: new tune I'm working on...
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2006, 06:23:57 PM »

nice job
i actually like the "dryness" of it. Maybe due to being at work, but I thought the drums actually sounded like they were in a room of sorts and thought it tied things together nicely. But then again, I'm also slightly allergic to reverb. Also could have sworn i heard a bit of "room" on the vox that might be brought out with a little compression? It sounds like the ac guitar may have been recorded in stereo? Only not panned left right, closer to the mid right side? It has a nice voice, may not need both mics if the case. cool tune. Was it a rhodes? if so, i missed the "dirt" you can get from the speaker. only thing i kept "hearing" like it was there was a bass walk around / up groove thing during the phrase right before the chorus "we have it all". nice tune!


gatino

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Re: new tune I'm working on...
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2006, 11:03:23 PM »

i kept wanting to get in the verse cuz it had a nice groove but the crashes were way too distracting. i'll buy on a fix.
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garret

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Re: new tune I'm working on...
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2006, 01:25:05 PM »

Thanks for listening, Tom...

Tom C wrote on Mon, 11 December 2006 16:38

I like the song, especially the chorus, very proggy.



... it took a while to come together, and it's an odd child, but I think it's a keeper.

Quote:



- it's a bit dry, I'd play around with some reverb to put
 everything (especially the drums, singer and acoustic guitar)
 in a room I can see when I close my eyes. I can't see a room
 now.




Yah, usually I mix with a lot of room verb, but I did this one very dry for a change... Might be too dry, but I like it.

Quote:


- the hi-hats suck a bit. They sound exactly like they were
 recorded in a garage, a completely different room compared
 to the rest.



Yah, balancing the "kit" has proven tricky.. this is a new set of samples, that let you pick and choose snare/cymbals/kick... I'm mixing some things from different kits because I liked the combined sound, but I can see how it doesn't sound complely cohesive right now...  

Quote:


- somehow the bass in the 1. verse feels slow, it holds back the
 groove instead of pushing it forward.



I know what you mean.. the first verse establishes the slow groove, but it takes a while to lock in.  Pushing the bass might help.. I'll try it.

Quote:


Would be a good song for an IMP



I've been IMP'd before, so I'll let others take advantage of the opportunity for a while.  I do have a lot of things we can use in the future, and J knows he can always ask for something if he gets stuck and can't get a tune to work on.

-Garret
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garret

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Re: new tune I'm working on...
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2006, 01:36:46 PM »

scottoliphant wrote on Mon, 11 December 2006 18:23

i actually like the "dryness" of it. Maybe due to being at work, but I thought the drums actually sounded like they were in a room of sorts and thought it tied things together nicely. But then again, I'm also slightly allergic to reverb.



Yah, I think that's where I am with the sound... I like the bus-saturated dry sound I'm getting now, with only a little room verb...

Quote:


Also could have sworn i heard a bit of "room" on the vox that might be brought out with a little compression?



I think that's a plate verb on the vocal, mixed very low.  I track vocals (well, everything!) in a very dead room, so I don't get a lot of real room sound.  Listening again, and in light of the recent thread about in your face vocals/1176 compression, I'm thinking I might be undercompressing my vocals some of the time.  The vox in this track is compressed at 6:1 with very short attack, medium release... threshold to get 6db gain reduction on the peaks.    Well, then I'm getting another 2db of saturation limiting with voxengo tape bus... still though, it's not anything like the 12db+ gain reduction JJ and others say they often put on vocals...  

Quote:


It sounds like the ac guitar may have been recorded in stereo? Only not panned left right, closer to the mid right side? It has a nice voice, may not need both mics if the case.



Yah, I think I tracked this with a Rhodes k2 about 8" away from the 12th fret, and an mxl 603 overhead, about 4 ft away.  I used to always do mono recordings, but lately I've been liking the extra richness of two mics...   the guitar is a sweet old acoustic I scored off ebay (martin copy from the 1960s, made by nashville musical instruments), strung with flatwounds (love those for recording if they're new.)

Quote:


Was it a rhodes? if so, i missed the "dirt" you can get from the speaker. only thing i kept "hearing" like it was there was a bass walk around / up groove thing during the phrase right before the chorus "we have it all".



Yah, there's an epiano of some kind panned left. I'd have to pull open the project to see for sure what I used... I think it's a free rhodes mk II soundfont, I use that a lot, or it could be something from sampletank or sonic synth.  I think it's just the di sound right now, maybe I should reamp it a bit to get some dirt.

Cheers,
-Garret
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garret

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Re: new tune I'm working on...
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2006, 01:37:51 PM »

gatino wrote on Mon, 11 December 2006 23:03

i kept wanting to get in the verse cuz it had a nice groove but the crashes were way too distracting. i'll buy on a fix.


Alright, I get the message. Wink  Lots of folks who've listened hate the crashes... I'll do something about that and upload another mix.

Thanks for listening, gatino.

-G
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cerberus

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Re: new tune I'm working on...
« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2006, 08:18:14 AM »

first i notice the drums seem late... whether they are or not, i think you've got to work on the groove...    the kick drum is not happening for me.  like it's out of phase or something?

the rhodes needs to be deep imo, i would put the reverb there, and i would make sure it is a "thread" that runs throughout.. it is an anchor but it is very weak that way for me.

is there a bass guitar here or just the low end of the rhodes?  either way.. get the rhythm section together please... my body hangs limp... i wanna slow dance but i cannot pick up the groove....

the vocals need to be more... intense... more contrast between stress and unwinding. i do not feel your pain enough, i do not feel the emotions here enough... i know you can get a more intimate feeling, take us inside your soul please... i feel very unsure what the song is really about.

the acoustic sounds like it is playing in a different room than the rhodes.. it is like my right speaker is the fretboard, weak body... let it ring, you've got a damn rhodes on the other side... like you are afraid to let some chords that want to form actually happen . by contrast to the acoustic,  the rhodes works better for me... that guitar is not in any space i can relate to at the moment

background vox... god, that's beautiful! the harmonies..  why can't those vocals be louder?

timing  seems a major problem here... the "band" doesn't seem committed to playing together as a unit.   you've got to create this "fusion energy" but it must be hard if you're playing every part... because you may want to assume different personalities for each instrument.  but what is the personality of the song at any one moment, and what is each instrument adding to it at that moment?  

comperssion could not "glue" this together well enough, imo... it needs some help finding it' moods... the topography of arrangement... make some surprises there perhaps?   the arrangement doesn't really seem to be worked on as such... not that i am good at arranging but it just feels static to me.  

ostensibly the song tells a story about something?...so it has a beginning, middle, third act, etc... takes us someplace... some conclusion or epiphany is reached... or we all went dancing and had a wonderful time.  or we built up a tension and released it and it felt great.  etc... some purpose to the art other than: "to hang on the wall".

so imo, all the work should be toward making clear what you meant to express... so the listener can step in your shoes and feel the same way.  all of which is not clear to me from listening a few times yet.

jeff dinces

thedoc

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Re: new tune I'm working on...
« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2006, 09:57:18 PM »

Cerberus said..."first i notice the drums seem late... whether they are or not, i think you've got to work on the groove... "

Big time.

Hesitant drums are deadly.  Nice song.
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garret

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Re: new tune I'm working on...
« Reply #9 on: December 24, 2006, 04:17:08 PM »

Hey guys, thanks very much for listening... I'll give it another listen over the holiday break and see what I can do.

I was going for a slow shuffly groove in the drums, but maybe I'm overdoing it.  The drums are programmed, if'n that wasn't obvious... so I can adjust the timing pretty easily.    Whether I can get it to lock in, that's another question... I recorded the vocal and guitar takes with these drums, so it might throw off the timing if I change up the drums now.  We'll see...

Cheers,
-Garret
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grizzly joe

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Re: new tune I'm working on...
« Reply #10 on: December 24, 2006, 07:44:04 PM »

i love this!  it reminds me of american analog set

good work
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j.hall

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Re: new tune I'm working on...
« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2006, 11:11:39 AM »

i always dig your stuff.  it's something i'd never think to write, and it's got that lazy, lo-fi groove and feel that i'm a big sucker for.

i'd just make the mix pulse more.  but really, this mix isn't "unlistenable" by any means.

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garret

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Re: new tune I'm working on...
« Reply #12 on: December 27, 2006, 12:46:54 PM »

j.hall wrote on Tue, 26 December 2006 11:11

it's got that lazy, lo-fi groove and feel that i'm a big sucker for.

i'd just make the mix pulse more.



Thanks, J... that's what I was going for...

Any ideas for how you'd make the mix pulse more?  bus compression/pumping? more kick/snare?

-G

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j.hall

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Re: new tune I'm working on...
« Reply #13 on: December 27, 2006, 01:57:12 PM »

make the vocal pump in a bad way and get the top end pretty bright (de-ess the crap out of it) but leave the upper mids a touch dark.  for this tune, that will be pretty cool....I THINK.

the drums move around a lot, so i'd probably do a verse thing and a chorus thing.  in the chorus the snare hits might be cool if they are hyper compressed, but that might not work.

you need to get the kick and bass on the same page.  that's the real pulse there.

everything else is just vibe.  

i'd have to sit down with it to get any more specific.

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gatino

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Re: new tune I'm working on...
« Reply #14 on: December 28, 2006, 09:25:40 AM »

after reading some comments above i listened again cuz i didn't hear bad timing the first time. i still don't. again, i really like the groove in the verse, esp the late snare. i wouldn't change it.

the only negative thing i would say rhythm-wise is the syncopated snare in the chorus holds back the sway somewhat. and it feels like it's about to break out into a fill which never comes. i might keep it on the first measure and go back to hits on 2 and 4 in the next.
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