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Author Topic: Opinions on a work in progress..  (Read 1828 times)

Red Tape

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Opinions on a work in progress..
« on: December 23, 2006, 01:35:24 PM »

Can anyone spare me an opinion on this stuff?
The more honest/constructively critical the better.

Thanks  Razz

http://www.redbrick.dcu.ie/~redtape/gs/3Songs.zip
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Thomas Lester

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Re: Opinions on a work in progress..
« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2006, 09:42:08 PM »

What are you interested in us critiquing?  Are you wanting to know about the mix?  The production?  Song writing?   Playing?  All of it?

-t

cerberus

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Re: Opinions on a work in progress..
« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2006, 04:49:43 AM »

2WhattoLearn - vocal exciter effect doesn't work for me.  real quiet and smallish mix.  could rock harder, but a nice pleasant vibe. needs mastering.

3Ox - same exciter effect - not feeling the groove here... that vocal exciter is terrible.

9RestringtheBow - no punch - very weird filtered feeling - weak bottom. if your voice really sounds like this, then imo, you need a different mic.

you may have a monitoring deficiency. it's like you are musical, but... not everything is here.. it is almost like tape degeneration in a way... like five times removed from its essence. like five veils need to be lifted.  it could be five times louder, 5x punchier, 5x more entrancing, five times more beautiful....

with all that filtering and vocal weirdness.. lack of dynamics... the top don't sparkle, the bottom don't rock.  the middle sounds kinda squeezed and constricted.. like it is yearning to breathe free. mastering this would be like an archeological expedition for me.

but one thing it is not is: "harsh digital in the box sounding".  so ... "unusually nice sounding for so little in the way of freq range and dynamics". but at the same time, really weird!  like you used plenty of analog processing somewhere, everywhere; but monitored with  a really cheap subwoofer which made you hear bass where there is: no bass.  and maybe you have gain staging problems between digital and analog?  the levels are just weak.  so the "presence" factor is really low here for me. i have to work at listening really deep to hear detail... but at least it's not doused with digital distortion.  for me, the mixes are "kinda good" but also very screwy sounding!

damn you can sing... what the heck with the phil collins effect?  imo, that one would work better on the guitars.

jeff dinces

Red Tape

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Re: Opinions on a work in progress..
« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2006, 07:47:05 AM »

I really appreciate the insight.

Ok, so I'm looking for opinions on the recording/production.

Mostly tracked live to Radar, D&R Orion desk, mixed in the box using mostly URS N-Series + 1970.

The vocal thing is/was how compressing this guy's vocal tends to sound - weird. Could have been the mic, for sure.
Monitoring, lack of low end - yeah, this is something I've been worried about. With good reason, it appears.
Quiet mix/lack of digital nastiness - these are linked, perhaps. I always keep levels low in the box to avoid that digital nastiness. I've bumped up the master fader a bit, let me know if that was the problem.

I've redone What to Learn a bit.
I'd love to know if you think it's heading in the right direction, and what else I need to work on.

http://www.redbrick.dcu.ie/~redtape/gs/WhattoLearn.zip

Really glad of the opinions - I guess this is what I get for working alone and not referencing enough.

Pete

we
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cerberus

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Re: Opinions on a work in progress..
« Reply #4 on: December 25, 2006, 11:33:14 AM »

it is improved in some ways, but i am not sure overall.  it is feeling punchier, and it is louder, but now i am much more conscious of compression holding down the levels.  what i am missing is the sense of "room space", or atmosphere... more specifically the decay of sounds... imo, that could possibly be helped by shorter release times.  and less compression.  

one clue here for me is the final chord:  imo, it sustains for much longer and remains loud for a longer time than i think seems "natural"...then just dies. i think you need to paint a more realistic picture of physics, time and space. it could be surrealistic, but still somehow must seem more "free and easy" natural, and less like an obviously controlled recording situation.

also the mix is getting a bit duller sounding, as if you have altered a master bus eq. i think you've removed too much "air" from the bass and guitar...it is less "crisp" overall, less "presence".   the drums come up nice this time but now they seem too "enveloped" (i wouldn't quite say "suffocated") by the thicker guitars and bass... i think that if you could eq the bass and guitar so they don't overlap each other frequency wise, it could help to "open up" this mix.  also the envelope shape of the guitar is very round like a bass, i might try a longer attack on the compressor to see if some of the "pick on strings" edge can help sharpen up the guitars a bit. (opinion..)

vocal seems slightly improved, but you might still consider notching out some freqs that make it seem too thick... maybe you can try to emphasize the "exciter" thing about his voice and make it really airy sounding... or maybe a doubling effect down an octave could help anchor it more.. it's very thick in the middle like the other instruments..

dynamically, only the drums provide any contrast.. and then they start to sound more like they are standing alone... not in the same room. imo the rhythm section needs to work as a unit more.. it feels to me like the kick drum is not holding up it's end in working together with the bass.

maybe it is just that the bass is a touch too loud?  all that "thickness" may be due to that... i think the bass sounds a bit high too, again i might notch or dip it at some places above 100 and especially above 300hz... i would look to cut the bass perhaps around 700hz too... to get it out of the low guitar's space, and to let the kick drum's attack through. i feel pressure in my head from the bass, but it needs to be lower, like in the chest... then i think this track would work much better.

as j. hall has emphasized, the vibe is so important, trumping all technical concerns... for me, it is getting too thick, and not light on it's feet and uplifting enough.. sliding the bass or kick drum tracks by a few samples could make a lot of difference too..  and also some vocal phrases could be editited for timing, imo...

at around 2:14... there is a "bad" guitar note (for me). i'd either fix it... or as j. suggested on the recent imp thread: "try to make something out of it, e.g. dylan has been doing it for years".... what exactly to do?  i dunno... ask j!  (i would fix it..)   to "make something" of a mistake which ends up adding to the song, or at least fits in so it sounds "right" for the moment is an "advanced"  mixing strategy that i am anxious to learn myself.

jeff dinces
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