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[six_minds]

Hi,
I need an a/d converter with at least 60 individual (mono) outputs for a 60 speaker sound installation/composition.  Inputs are unnecessary.

As far as I can tell, the only gear that can fulfill my needs is aimed at high-end, multi channel mixing facilities with big shiny massively multi channel mixing consoles.

Is this the case? are there other options that I have not found?

An ideal would be firewire rack gear (like some of motu's portable converters) that can work with a laptop.

The work is being made in Cubase sx3 on a pc laptop.  The platform and software are both, however, negotiable.


Any thoughts, suggestions or other potential possibilities would be greatly appreciated.

-Thanks

[PookyNMR]

Apogee DA 16x has 16 outputs per unit...  I'm not aware of any standalone converter that has 24....

[six_minds]

thanks-

but do you know if there is a limit to how many units can be chained together?  Did not say anything on the web page about a limit but you never know what is lurking in the fine print.

or also if there is another unit that has 1/4 inch outputs built in?  Was hoping to go straight from the computer to the speakers...  although I suppose I could (very grudgingly) build a patch bay to do that...

[six_minds]

wait i am an idiot.  forget the patch bay comment...  sometimes in searching for creative solutions to wierd problems you overlook the simplest answers...  like pre made conversion cables.  

[Tomas Danko]

Whatever it is that you end up getting, be sure to order a bunch of D/A converters, not A/D converters.

It will make a very big difference for your particular application.

Check out the RME solutions, or any other brand that can do a lot of ADAT outs that you in turn hook up to something like a Creamware 16 channel DA or a bunch of inexpensive Alesis AI3 converters. The second option is to check out MADI-compatible devices since they usually give you a lot of channels.

Good luck!

Regards,

Tomas Danko

[Gunnar Hellquist]

Hmm. Thinking here.

60 speakers.
Are they active, or are you planning 60 power amplifiers as well?
Anyway 60 speakers is a lot of cabinets and cables and stuff. I would say, don´t limit yourself to a laptop. Personally I would not expect you to reach the full 60 channels with a laptop.

Instead, with a fixed PC, look perhaps at three RME hammerfall cards and 8 of 8 channel DA-converters.

Is this for a permanent installation? Maybe you could check out some rental stuff instead, renting is bound to be a lot cheaper than buying.

Gunnar

[patrick_pendleton]

If you could switch to a mac pro you could use apogee's symphony card.  apparently it will do up to 32 i/o per card so you could get by with 2 pci cards.  also, they have dedicated 16 DA boxes and with 4 of them you would have 64 outputs.

after that you might want to consider some powered monitors that would take the line level signal.

[six_minds]

interesting.  was thinking about the symphony option.  installation will not be permanant...  unless i fantasize about my fabulous future artistic career...  so was planning on renting everything if i can get it presented, although i might invest in one of those apogee 16 channel DAs...  would probably get alot of use out of that.  but does anyone know if one could chain four of those together through a firewire drive?  and have it function smoothly?

 the madi/adat possiblities seem too complex in some way, but still good to think about...

it is not incredibly important that the speakers be super hi-fidelity or super loud, so, unless the funding i can, hopefully , find for this for this winds up being more than i expect it to be, was thinking smaller computer type speakers, with built in pres, might be the simplest way to go...

for those of you that might be interested-
the project is an experiment in directional sound.  idea is to treat each note played on a "piano" (read VST/orwhatever instrument, impossible otherwise) as an individual instrument, coming out of an individual speaker, that surrounds the listener(s).  the directionality is being composed with as much attention as a melody might be composed... using der wohl termperierte Klavier (61 keys on the harpsichord, 60 is a geometrically better number) as the music for this for now, although plan on later composing my own music (but with noisystuff) for this system and maybe arranging some modern classical things (would love to hear bartok's mikrocosmos like this) as well...  would also like to get some others to work with this system...  but i am daydreaming now.

but, maybe this clarification could foster other gear suggestions outside of just DAs?  (the apogee stuff seems to be the best way as it is?)  good sounding computer piano software? (an oxymoron, i know i know)
have been trying to figure out how to technically realize this, as i finish the compositinal side.  need to apply for festivals/grants etc. in a few months and need a rough idea about gear and money before i can properly do it.

thanks for the help again again again...  ok, i stop babbling now... (wine and discussion boards   )

[Tomas Danko]

It seems a lot of people would install something like a 7.1 surround system, use a surround capable DAW to assign all the notes, render the audio file and go with it.

Eight outputs, you could do this with a dirt cheap system based on a laptop and a cheap sound card hooked to an inexpensive home cinema surround setup.

Should you insist on using 60+ discrete channels for reproduction I have to second the idea of Mr. Hellquist and use active speakers.

...because if nothing else, the world will always need crazy people pushing the boundaries, instead of settling with the approved methods.

[six_minds]

aha!  but if people just settled with the approved methods there would be no way forward!  no.  seriously.  the 60 channels are non-negotiable for this project.  it would defeat the entire purporse were i to use anything less.

for example.  imagine having a sound running circles around you.  how would you do that if you were to only have 8 or so speakers recreating that?

it is kind of like saying that midi would work fine if there were only 16 velocity values as supposed to 127.

i third the thought though.  active speakers are the only way to effectively go for this application...

[Tomas Danko]

You can make a very convincing 360 degree pan sweep using 7.1 or better, so that's not really a point.

Then again, the concept of having 60 discrete sound sources are stunning.

Keep up the good work dude!

[tom eaton]

One MOTU PCI424 card in a G4 or G5 with three MOTU 24 i/o boxes will get you more than there.  Not a laptop solution, but WAY cheaper than the Apogee path... if cost is a consideration!

If it were me.. and this was an installation piece where the audio just needed to run without a DAW in control of things, I'd go dig up four Akai DR16 units.  They're as solid as RADAR units and easy to deal with.  I used to do a lot of theatre work with them and they were always reliable.  One machine can be the master and control the other three.

-t

[chorga1]

Check out Recombinant Media Labs set-up.


They have an excellent, no, amazing, 16.8.2 speaker array at their space in SF. They have technical specs online. Check the bottom of this page:


http://recombinantmedia.net/info/