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Author Topic: Do it yourself projects in relation to saving money  (Read 22605 times)

Oliver Archut

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Do it yourself projects in relation to saving money
« on: December 04, 2006, 06:11:01 PM »

One of the greatest joy in the work field is, when self build ideas take shape, get planed and finally work and maybe even money was saved.
In the field of professional audio there has always been the DIY approach, either studio owner that could not afford the high dollar gear of the times, best known example was Sam Phillips, that build most of his studio as well as the gear like compressors himself, or radio station at the time, record company and many other studio owner counterparted the pricy specialty equipment of the time with home made stuff, that sometimes turned out to change the recording industry.

So what does that mean today? Can we still go out as a small studio/ or project set up and build the gear we want and still get everything done, even save money?
Maybe I should rephrase my question, because not just the music industry has changed, the entire world. So lets take a closer look.

What is mostly missing from the audio world today is the related field of electronic. In the 1950/60/70 the ham and radio field was still fully active and most teenage knew how to build a detector radio or later in the army general basics of radio were picked up.
Also in every town you could find a radio/TV repair shop were "Jack' could fix nearly everything, with or without schematic.

Keeping that info in mind and looking around today, nothing of the consumer electronics is fixable today so no "future" repair tech can get his feet wet with trying to fix or modify some consumer stuff!
The entire supporting electronic radio industries is missing, because some of the highly priced components today were standard parts in the 1950/60 and were so easy to get a hold off.

One of the reasons why I started making my own transformer was because the ones that were available were just "fair" and the manufacture could not offer satisfactory custom work.

In my view there is an big problem to hit the audio world in the next couple of years, and that is the lack of good techs that can fix everything that has a plug or a batteries.

I ask you all and hope that many people try to share their DIY or customizing experience... And maybe just exchanging some thoughts.
Because in the end only a good DIY project that works, and is nearly as good or same as good than the "wished for" gear make the DIY idea a good one...

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Oliver Archut
www.tab-funkenwerk.com

We are so advanced, that we can develop technology that can determine how much damage the earth has taken from the development of that technology.

Barry Hufker

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Re: Do it yourself projects in relation to saving money
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2006, 07:46:45 PM »

Oliver,

I am not so sure we are going to run out of good techs any time soon.  There is a generation before us still capable of training others and repairing "fixable" gear.

It will be soon enough that there won't be a demand for such people because equipment will no longer require them.  What will be required instead are good programmers.  These programmers will be the ones to design new computer-based eq's, compressors, etc.

And this will be the new studio DIY.  If you don't have an EQ filter that does what you want, write one.  The same for all other gear.

As long as there is vintage gear, such as we have at the moment, there will be a demand for a traditional tech.

But before long, vintage gear will all be software needing repair lines of code or updated code or a microprocessor fix.

Barry
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Oliver Archut

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Re: Do it yourself projects in relation to saving money
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2006, 11:31:44 PM »

Hello Barry,

I see it a bit different, training is quite expensive these days and even we still have a generation before us, the old guys are hard to find and the info even harder.
Most of the older guys that really know their stuff won't even get a computer, so how can they teach the beginners?
There are so many shortcomings with repair guys these days. If it is just something simple like a broken switch, blown fuse this is not a problem, if there is a replacement part available still no problem but what is after that?

I deal with lots of DIY guys and repair techs, but most of them are following some links or someone's other idea without trying to get to the root. The is today a shortage of good magnetic/transformer repair guys, there is a shortage of good mechanical techs, etc.

Sure computer are everywhere and will take over more and more functions of the everyday life as well in the studio domain, but fixing the code is not all, getting into it that's computer box.... that is the problem.
There are programs of designing everything from x-formers to mic pres, but up to today none that does really cut it.

Maybe I am wrong, but for my part talking about a possible problem and being wrong is better than to ignore it....

Best regards,


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Oliver Archut
www.tab-funkenwerk.com

We are so advanced, that we can develop technology that can determine how much damage the earth has taken from the development of that technology.

Barry Hufker

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Re: Do it yourself projects in relation to saving money
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2006, 10:28:40 AM »

Oliver,

Please don't think I'm saying this subject shouldn't be discussed.  Quite the contrary.  I think this topic is worth a full and complete thread.

I guess we're lucky at my university.  We have a wonderful tech, Bud Steward, who is an old tube/ham radio guy who is able to tackle (and succeed at) fixing just about anything thrown at him.  He knows his test gear.  He knows circuits.  He builds custom gear for us and is great to work with.

Barry
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Oliver Archut

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Re: Do it yourself projects in relation to saving money
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2006, 11:36:34 AM »

Hello Barry,

please do not understand me wrong, I hear you on what you say, and you are lucky to have Mr. Steward to you disposal, but my point is that in general good audio techs are quite rare. Without the DIY and radio/ham areas nearly missing it is hard for young guys that are looking to find a way into the repair/design field.
Lets hope to hear back from some guys....

Best regards,
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Oliver Archut
www.tab-funkenwerk.com

We are so advanced, that we can develop technology that can determine how much damage the earth has taken from the development of that technology.

maxdimario

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Re: Do it yourself projects in relation to saving money
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2006, 02:09:05 PM »

This is true, there are techs but not AUDIO techs.

audio went downhill with the advent of the opamp.

after that anybody could produce an audio mixer or gear without having to deal with subtleties and the intrinsic problems found in discrete circuits.

IC engineers are a new breed, and usually do not have a classical audio approach towards design.

for instance, opamps are designed to run with power supply voltage inconsistencies, they are designed with a relatively low output impedance and relatively high input impedance, as well as having ruler-flat response and good specs..

all of this possible with a couple resistors and a cap as the only other components... and very little designing effort.

discrete audio is as much a philosophy and an art as it is technical, and it requires knowledge of details pertaining to the individual active components... be they tube or transistor.. it requires selection and it requires real-world tests.

IC opamps are built to behave identically regardless of interior tolerances..

I don't believe that computers will ever replace analog preamps.

a good analog preamp is not the same as a run-of-the-mill analog preamp with very good specs coupled to a digital algorhythm which adds 'euphonic distortion'.

it's not what gets added but what doesn't dissapear along the way which makes a fine preamp/amp.

the whole distortion thing is HIGHLY overrated.
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danickstr

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Re: Do it yourself projects in relation to saving money
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2006, 05:27:59 PM »

I think the difference in today's DIY shortage is the work of guys like Dan Kennedy and yourself, that make it silly for me to try to build something better, when you have already done it.  

Boutique techs have the net to spread the word, and hopefully for you sales are decent.  If I really wanted to solder something together, I think there are kits for that, at all levels.  

If I try to R&D something to challenge a piece that you and/or your contemporaries have tweaked for years with your vast experience, who am I fooling?  It will fall short of the mark.  It may be fun and if I already own a box of cap and resistors and PC boards and chemicals, and tube mounts, etc, etc, I may save a bit, but I would rather go to a seminar and have my ideas refined by someone like yourself before I jump into that arena.

And I don't think distortion is overrated.  Why else try to make classic circuits?  Accuracy is overrated. Smile
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Oh! My Sea Captain!

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Re: Do it yourself projects in relation to saving money
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2006, 06:16:47 PM »

The problem I have with techs these days is that they won't teach me.


A Typical Conversation:

"Gee, sir, I'd really love to learn more about this stuff."

"You don't know what you're getting into, kid."

Anyone in Philadelphia want to hire me?    Very Happy
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RMoore

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Re: Do it yourself projects in relation to saving money
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2006, 06:46:23 PM »

Oliver Archut wrote on Tue, 05 December 2006 17:36

Hello Barry,

please do not understand me wrong, I hear you on what you say, and you are lucky to have Mr. Steward to you disposal, but my point is that in general good audio techs are quite rare. Without the DIY and radio/ham areas nearly missing it is hard for young guys that are looking to find a way into the repair/design field.
Lets hope to hear back from some guys....

Best regards,


I think its definitely an issue - most of the techs I've encountered are getting on in years,with few or no youngsters moving up in the ranks,
There is however, one young tech at Funky Junk in London who seems very on the ball & in his 20's..
But like Oliver says, competent techs who have a lot of expertise with component level repair of studio audio gear are going to become very rare in the coming years as people retire, leave the Earthly plane etc,




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Barry Hufker

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Re: Do it yourself projects in relation to saving money
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2006, 06:50:10 PM »

The decline here was obvious when Heathkit went out of business.  For decades you could order one of their kits with numbered and illustrated instructions.  But devices became too complex in a sense and became cheaper/easier to buy than build.

I'm not sure what there is to excite someone about this area of electronics.

Barry
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Gold

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Re: Do it yourself projects in relation to saving money
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2006, 09:35:38 PM »

I am learning the Neumann lathe repair business. I spend a lot of time with an oldtimer who has been doing this from before I was born. The only problem is that I'm not a great tech. I'm more of an operator. I have learned a tremendous amount about it. I also love it. But this isn't general tech knowledge. I just know these machines very well.
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maxdimario

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Re: Do it yourself projects in relation to saving money
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2006, 12:18:52 AM »

Quote:

And I don't think distortion is overrated. Why else try to make classic circuits? Accuracy is overrated.  


try and record a km56 or similar mic in a large reflective area as you strike a drum.

use a 'classic circuit' such as v72 or discrete..

now use a modern 'accurate' preamp..

listen..

chances are that the classic circuit will let you hear the room depth and reflections better than a modern, 'clinical' amp..

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Oliver Archut

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Re: Do it yourself projects in relation to saving money
« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2006, 10:46:04 AM »

Hello Sea Captain,

before asking to get hired my advise is to learn as much about electronics as you can. The basics that apply to all fields are easy to pick up and DIY project (with the idea in mind becoming a repair tech) is still today very valuable today.
As I pointed out getting your hands dirty with radios or amplifiers (you can get great basic tube amp as a starter on ebay for $10 or so).
It would be great finding someone that can guide you in your quest, but applying somewhere without knowledge is pretty difficult because guys that can help you don't want to start at Ohms or Kirchhoffs law...
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Oliver Archut
www.tab-funkenwerk.com

We are so advanced, that we can develop technology that can determine how much damage the earth has taken from the development of that technology.

mullytron

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Re: Do it yourself projects in relation to saving money
« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2006, 11:53:16 AM »

Full-on noob here.  First post, but been making records, playing music, and fixing gear for 20 years.  Oliver, I met you and Josh at the TAB booth at AES-NY last year.  Howzit?

I know for a fact there are skilled techs out there, but I think the ones that are really "getting it" as far as working on and/or developing analog circuits in the digital age are not going to be tech's only.  They are likely musicians, studio owners, producers, modders, or a combination, who got lucky enough at some point to have a chance to learn and practice the art, to the point where they got skilled.

Which is great, but it's not the sort of broad-based skill set as it was before.  It's a similar situation as learning to play jazz, where it used to be a popular music that was in the air, and people learned how to play it because it was the dominant musical language of the day, not because it was a historical art form.  Does that make sense?  You can still generate very talented folks, geniuses even, but it's different approach now, when it's a conscious goal, as opposed to when analog electronics was simply the "way it gets done."
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Oliver Archut

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Re: Do it yourself projects in relation to saving money
« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2006, 08:20:27 PM »

Hello Mullytron,

I know there are some great techs out there, but seven out of ten have their own company making new gear because there are so little companies left that make incredible gear. The other three are locked up in some studio/producer or corporate setting.

I do not agree with your Jazz thought, maybe it works for tube electronics, but there are hardly any techs that you can find their way through a solid state thing... Everytime my TV or another thing says goodbye I have a hard time finding someone that can fix it. Mostly everybody charges me for their time but the problem is always still there. My last Sony TV I finally threw out because none was able to fix it and after changing $250 worth of PCB I finally gave up and it went. Same with most of my "Modern" equipment that I do not have the time for to repair.

I still think it is a sign of the times and the little reflection we get here in the audio world is just a minor part of it. I still hope that some DIY guys will post their projects and maybe question here...
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Oliver Archut
www.tab-funkenwerk.com

We are so advanced, that we can develop technology that can determine how much damage the earth has taken from the development of that technology.
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