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[Ed Littman]

I just recently re- wired my whole mastering desk to install a Crookwod analog router. After a couple of days of getting the patches all worked out with Crispin I got back to work….it’s a great unit.

Today, by chance I found that my captured  files are %100 out of phase from input. My first thought was that it’s the router, so I pulled it & all the gear & just plugged my Mytek DAC strait in to my  Hedd ADC.
I recorded a few tests & both analog/digital captures were still  flipped. The router & analog gear are innocent. I also checked a project before I rewired & all was OK as it should be.

Is my problem the ADC or DAC feeding it? I double checked my connections & sound cards. even if they were wrong the problem would be L/R issues not polarity. What could I have done to  create my capture to be upside down??

I wanted to get some feed back before contacting Dave or Michal

Thanks,
Ed

[mcsnare]

Maybe the files I brought over are out of phase??? I don't Howie would care....
Dave

[Ed Littman]

mcsnare wrote on Fri, 01 December 2006 00:44

Maybe the files I brought over are out of phase??? I don't Howie would care.... Dave

No, there right side up. the good news is that the quality is still there just upside down.that usually works good for Howie

I discovered this when comparing a strait digital loop vs. an analog pass through the hedd. then went for null test.....and

Thanks to Alan S. as he reminded me that the hot pins may be off.
The only thing different from before was that i got rid of an xlr patchbay. somthing to look into tomorrow.
Ed

[Jerry Tubb]

Ed

When you rewired, is it possible you reversed pin 2 (+) and pin 3 (-) on one end of a pair of cables?

Or is that all too obvious?

If there's a problem it's usually a cable... or a wire : - )

Once in a while a piece of digital gear will get confused by a static charge, usually a power down and reboot will fix it.

Hell I'm no tech, but those are my usual snafu's.

Cheers  JT

[Ed Littman]

I did not do any soldering. I should say a repatching of my desk.
maybe a cable i used is crossed??
e

[Jerry Tubb]

Ed Littman wrote on Fri, 01 December 2006 00:14

maybe a cable i used is crossed??

That sounds like the culprit to me, but I'm no Sherlock Holmes.

Maybe before the Re-Patch, you had Two pairs that were crossed, and as a result, self-corrected?

A good meter with a continuity checker should tell the tale.

Where's Hercule Perot when you need him?

Cheers  JT

[dcollins]

Ed Littman wrote on Thu, 30 November 2006 19:34

Today, by chance I found that my captured files are %100 out of phase from input. My first thought was that it’s the router, so I pulled it & all the gear & just plugged my Mytek DAC strait in to my Hedd ADC.

You either have two cables that are switching pins 2 and 3, or there is a digital polarity flip somewhere.  Does the DAC have a provision for this?

If you didn't see the waveform, would you have known there was a problem?

DC

[Gold]

Assuming everything checks out as normal with the boxes, and absolute phase matters to you, just make a custom cable.

Since it wasn't that way before there probably is a magic button somewhere.

[Mark Wilder]

My HDCD units are absolute phase out.  

I make it a habit of checking absolute phase.  It has a profound effect on the center material.  The LF becomes more vague when it's absolute out.  Sometimes vocals become more pleasant with absolute out.  I tend to flip it to where it works best for the program.

Keep in mind, the this age of DIY, there might be one item in someones basement which is pin flipped.  In mastering those items tend to change dramatically when you change absolute phase.

[mcsnare]

IIRC all amplifiers invert phase. So assuming everything is wired correctly, if one device in the signal path has one amplifier stage, that device will show up as inverting absolute phase. If you have 2 amplification stages then all is right with the world, except there is the sound of another amplifier stage....
Dave

[Jerry Tubb]

Mark Wilder wrote on Fri, 01 December 2006 08:08

The LF becomes more vague when it's absolute out.

Recently had a hard rock project come in that just sounded a little grey and lifeless.

So I inverted the absolute phase on the source material, and the kick and bass came alive, noticably punchier.

I was pleasantly suprised, the band couldn't believe the difference.

JT

[Ed Littman]

Mark Wilder wrote on Fri, 01 December 2006 09:08

My HDCD units are absolute phase out.   I make it a habit of checking absolute phase.  It has a profound effect on the center material.  The LF becomes more vague when it's absolute out.  Sometimes vocals become more pleasant with absolute out.  I tend to flip it to where it works best for the program.

In my tests the digital loop had no processing & the captured file nulled perfectly just by lining it up with the source. So I would asume your talking about an analog capture.. correct?.
Ed

[Mark Wilder]

Using the HDCD as a DAC.  The analog outputs are absolute phase out.  I haven't looked at the manual for a bit, but If I remember it's pin 2 hot, but it's inverted.  There's an option on the output page for phase inversion.  I'll often correct it there, if I desire.

[Mark Wilder]

Jerry Tubb wrote on Fri, 01 December 2006 11:01

Mark Wilder wrote on Fri, 01 December 2006 08:08 The LF becomes more vague when it's absolute out. Recently had a hard rock project come in that just sounded a little grey and lifeless. So I inverted the absolute phase on the source material, and the kick and bass came alive, noticably punchier. I was pleasantly suprised, the band couldn't believe the difference. JT

Pretty amazing, ain't it.

[Gold]

mcsnare wrote on Fri, 01 December 2006 10:54

IIRC all amplifiers invert phase.

This is a more common way to use an op amp but you can use them so they don't reverse polarity. Someone with design experirnce could shed some light on why using the inverting input for signal is more common.

[Andy Krehm]

Mark Wilder wrote on Fri, 01 December 2006 14:33

Jerry Tubb wrote on Fri, 01 December 2006 11:01 Mark Wilder wrote on Fri, 01 December 2006 08:08 The LF becomes more vague when it's absolute out. Recently had a hard rock project come in that just sounded a little grey and lifeless. So I inverted the absolute phase on the source material, and the kick and bass came alive, noticably punchier. I was pleasantly suprised, the band couldn't believe the difference. JT Pretty amazing, ain't it.

Is there a way to know if the phase is correct on a mix, other than inverting the track to see if it sounds better? Or do you routinely invert the phase just to see?

If you do change the polarity from the mix, have you ever had anyone spot it and ask why? I know I've mastered a couple of albums many moons ago where the polarity got inverted by mistake and not caught but I didn't realize the sound could change.

[dcollins]

Mark Wilder wrote on Fri, 01 December 2006 06:08

My   I make it a habit of checking absolute phase.  It has a profound effect on the center material.  The LF becomes more vague when it's absolute out.  Sometimes vocals become more pleasant with absolute out.  I tend to flip it to where it works best for the program.

For whatever reason, I hear absolute phase in the midrange.  But it's a complete crap-shoot as to whether the decision you make in mastering will translate anywhere else.......

DC

[Mark Wilder]

I hear that, definitely (the mid-range thingie).

Most people have no idea.  Most have no idea when you say pin 2 hot or pin 3 hot.  This is why sometimes there are elements in the mix absolute out from other elements.  Inverting phase may not bring the entire mix correct, it might flip some elements correct and others out.  

I've never had anyone comment on absolute phase.  It's more noticeable with headphones.  Grado used to make a model with switches (HP 1) for your own, personal phase correction.

Keep in mind that some of the older gear is pin 3 hot.  I believe the ATR's are pin 3 hot.  

[Masterer]

dcollins wrote on Fri, 01 December 2006 19:57

Mark Wilder wrote on Fri, 01 December 2006 06:08 My   I make it a habit of checking absolute phase.  It has a profound effect on the center material.  The LF becomes more vague when it's absolute out.  Sometimes vocals become more pleasant with absolute out.  I tend to flip it to where it works best for the program. For whatever reason, I hear absolute phase in the midrange.  But it's a complete crap-shoot as to whether the decision you make in mastering will translate anywhere else....... DC

Interesting. I hear it more [or maybe mostly] in the bass. Feels like it's pullin' when it should be pushin' when the phase is "out", and the bottom end loses it's attack and tightness.

[minister]

couple of questions about hearing absolute phase...

is it a bit more of a sensation?  like, 'something wrong with this picture'?  because i notice things sometimes in other's mixes (occasionally when i am working on my own) when it makes me turn my head like a dog trying to understand what his master is so eloquently saying ex libris in plain, oxonian english epigrams.  the image in the midrange gets a wee bit cock-eyed and i can hear it for sure.  is that what you rarified types are talking about?

and, how can you deal with it in an already mixed stereo track?  FFT tomfoolery?  get your hair coiffed and master the 'separations'?

thanking you.

[dcollins]

minister wrote on Fri, 01 December 2006 18:51

is it a bit more of a sensation?  like, 'something wrong with this picture'?

In general, there is one setting that sounds more "right" or maybe even "cohesive."

Quote:

it makes me turn my head like a dog trying to understand what his master is so eloquently saying ex libris in plain, oxonian english epigrams.

Ahem.

Quote:

and, how can you deal with it in an already mixed stereo track?  FFT tomfoolery?  get your hair coiffed and master the 'separations'?

There are two settings: that way, and the other way.  

Well down the list of things to worry about, imo.  Fortunately, and this is one good thing about digital, it's transparent and free to flip the polarity!

DC

[Phil Demetro]

Masterer wrote on Fri, 01 December 2006 21:13

Feels like it's pullin' when it should be pushin' when the phase is "out"

I recently won a shootout with a local ME cause his "peaks" were inverted. I guess the producer lined 'em all up in his Protools and noticed it visually first....

'course mine sounded better anyway!

Phil

[minister]

Thanks Dave!

[Jerry Tubb]

Mark Wilder wrote on Fri, 01 December 2006 19:31

Keep in mind that some of the older gear is pin 3 hot.  I believe the ATR's are pin 3 hot.

Some of the Tascam gear (DA-30?) was pin 3 hot, possibly older dolby SR units, Nakamichi MR-1 cassette decks, some of the Japanese and European gear, a few others... I forget.

iirc over the last decade or so, "pin 2 hot" has become the standard convention.

When David Hough rebuilt our ATR, I believe he switched the XLR outputs to pin 2 (+).

I keep a couple pair of XLR cables around, wired to invert the absolute phase (and clearly marked) to correct such issues.

Usually dig deep enough in the users' manual to find the pin config.

My assumption has always been that positive amplitude "pushes" the speaker cones, and negative amplitude "pulls" them... most apparent on LF, especially kick drum.

Curious if Ed found a solution to the problem?

JT

[Andy Krehm]

Mark Wilder wrote on Fri, 01 December 2006 20:31

<edit>Keep in mind that some of the older gear is pin 3 hot.  I believe the ATR's are pin 3 hot.

Yes, I was surprised to discover that my ATR was flipping the phase but only with the vintage electronics, not the Aria. I mostly use the Aria electronics so, only using the vintage electronics occasionally and having no idea about this, I wonder how many masters got flipped before I discovered the discrepancy between the two electronics.

One call to Mike Spitz cleared up the mystery and we fixed it. I guess vintage means "vintage" but it does seem odd to rebuild a tape machine with alternate electronics and send it out with with one flipped from the other. As far as I know, it is not mentioned anywhere in the manual but it is absolutely huge so who knows. I would suggest a special note for us tape newbies!

So Mark, keeping in mind that the original ATR electronics are pin 3 hot, is that why they were so valued for their sound? (I'm only partly kidding!).

[turtletone]

This reminds me of a session I did many many years ago with Rob Fraboni. We were setting up to track a band and we spent 2 full days making sure every single mic was in absolute phase in relation to each other. What a nightmare. I'm in the live room hitting drums, moving mics fractions of an inch, playing bass, playing guitars, you name it. In the end I don't think we were able to get every single mic in absolute phase in relationship to every other mic, but I do feel it made a difference, I think. I don't know what the point of this story is by the way.

I find it gets more complicated the more analog gear you use. then you start using high pass filters on some and it's flipping this way or that way and certain things are phase rotated. if I notice it, I'll try flipping the phase and see if it makes a difference, sometimes it does, most times it's a tradeoff.

[present]

dcollins wrote on Sat, 02 December 2006 01:57

For whatever reason, I hear absolute phase in the midrange.  But it's a complete crap-shoot as to whether the decision you make in mastering will translate anywhere else....... DC

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. You have no control over end users' setups.

regards
Rogier

[Ed Littman]

Jerry Tubb wrote on Sat, 02 December 2006 02:56

Curious if Ed found a solution to the problem? JT

I'm pretty confused at this point. I've tried many cable configs with varied results. Right now I went back to my original cabling through the crookwood & all is as should be.

was it the repowering of my system?
Moving cables around then back?

I'll try more later today. I have yet to look at the paperwork on the converters. At this point I'm more curious than anything, cause to answer DC's question above....no I did not hear a difference until i saw the waveform. But I do have some concern, as Phil has pointed out... if the client sees it.
Ed

[Andy Krehm]

Phil Demetro wrote on Fri, 01 December 2006 23:40

Masterer wrote on Fri, 01 December 2006 21:13 Feels like it's pullin' when it should be pushin' when the phase is "out" I recently won a shootout with a local ME cause his "peaks" were inverted. I guess the producer lined 'em all up in his Protools and noticed it visually first.... 'course mine sounded better anyway! Phil

I've only lost one local shoot-out in the last year (and that was due to the label's decision, not the producer) so it probably wasn't me! (LOL)

But if it was me, would you have let me know about the waveform problem?

[Masterer]

present wrote on Sat, 02 December 2006 10:13

..... You have no control over end users' setups.

A good candidate for The Official Mastering Engineers Epitaph.

[present]

Masterer wrote on Sat, 02 December 2006 16:53

present wrote on Sat, 02 December 2006 10:13 ..... You have no control over end users' setups. A good candidate for The Official Mastering Engineers Epitaph.

Yeah!


...uh...


Hey!


regards
Rogier

[Phil Demetro]

Andy Krehm wrote on Sat, 02 December 2006 10:49

Phil Demetro wrote on Fri, 01 December 2006 23:40 Masterer wrote on Fri, 01 December 2006 21:13 Feels like it's pullin' when it should be pushin' when the phase is "out" I recently won a shootout with a local ME cause his "peaks" were inverted. I guess the producer lined 'em all up in his Protools and noticed it visually first.... 'course mine sounded better anyway! Phil I've only lost one local shoot-out in the last year (and that was due to the label's decision, not the producer) so it probably wasn't me! (LOL) But if it was me, would you have let me know about the waveform problem?

It was with 3 other local ME's...all guys you know. You definitely would have known if you were in it 'cause the producer was quite open to everyone about it. He called everyone back, too. He told me he found the whole thing "educational". So did I, actually.

Andy, I know that you are on here a lot so I would never post a bravado comment like "I won over so and so" if it was you. I know that you might read that. This is not my style at all.

I'm very passive -aggressive so tongue-in-cheek humour is more my style. But my track did sound better! Wink-wink nudge-nudge.

Talk about being putting me on the spot for your second comment.
This gets me thinking now... because I didn't call the other ME about his problem. Was I wrong not to do so? Maybe I should have? I'll have to be honest here and say that I remember not caring that much about it. Because I've really started to focus on "me" more and what "I'm" doing.
I really like what I'm doing lately and that's probably because of me foscing on me.

Basically my only rule in calling others is -  if there is stolen gear floating around locally, or if a client who didn't pay his bill here was calling other studios to pull the same trick. Believe me, I would call you and others in cases like this.

As for the peak inversion...I've spent that last 6 years making every mistake (some things more than once) , f*****g everything up imaginable (some more than twice)!

But ...

I figured out the whole pin2/3 thing long ago - on several 1630 real time transfers - a huge waste of time!
Ed Littman's case is excuseable because he started over completely from scratch from what i can tell...normal everyday stuff. He'll find the problem.
The other studio in Toronto has several ME's, and an in-house tech or two -  so I don't feel obliged to help out there. Seems lazy to me... or just an oversight.
It's no doubt fixed now.
Hmmm. or maybe not?

I'm still wondering if I should have called now.
Would you have called?

phil

[Andy Krehm]

Phil Demetro wrote on Sat, 02 December 2006 11:53

Andy Krehm wrote on Sat, 02 December 2006 10:49 Phil Demetro wrote on Fri, 01 December 2006 23:40 Masterer wrote on Fri, 01 December 2006 21:13 Feels like it's pullin' when it should be pushin' when the phase is "out" I recently won a shootout with a local ME cause his "peaks" were inverted. I guess the producer lined 'em all up in his Protools and noticed it visually first.... 'course mine sounded better anyway! Phil I've only lost one local shoot-out in the last year (and that was due to the label's decision, not the producer) so it probably wasn't me! (LOL) But if it was me, would you have let me know about the waveform problem? It was with 3 other local ME's...all guys you know. You definitely would have known if you were in it 'cause the producer was quite open to everyone about it. He called everyone back, too. He told me he found the whole thing "educational". So did I, actually. Andy, I know that you are on here a lot so I would never post a bravado comment like "I won over so and so" if it was you. I know that you might read that. This is not my style at all. I'm very passive -aggressive so tongue-in-cheek humour is more my style. But my track did sound better! Wink-wink nudge-nudge. Talk about being putting me on the spot for your second comment. This gets me thinking now... because I didn't call the other ME about his problem. Was I wrong not to do so? Maybe I should have? I'll have to be honest here and say that I remember not caring that much about it. Because I've really started to focus on "me" more and what "I'm" doing. I really like what I'm doing lately and that's probably because of me foscing on me. Basically my only rule in calling others is -  if there is stolen gear floating around locally, or if a client who didn't pay his bill here was calling other studios to pull the same trick. Believe me, I would call you and others in cases like this. As for the peak inversion...I've spent that last 6 years making every mistake (some things more than once) , f*****g everything up imaginable (some more than twice)! But ... I figured out the whole pin2/3 thing long ago - on several 1630 real time transfers - a huge waste of time! Ed Littman's case is excuseable because he started over completely from scratch from what i can tell...normal everyday stuff. He'll find the problem. The other studio in Toronto has several ME's, and an in-house tech or two -  so I don't feel obliged to help out there. Seems lazy to me... or just an oversight. It's no doubt fixed now. Hmmm. or maybe not? I'm still wondering if I should have called now. Would you have called? phil

Well, I know we both compete in the same market place but b/c we hang out on the same web boards, and do the odd PM, I think of you also as a colleague and so probably would have let you know if I spotted a technical problem like that.

But the other guy? Not likely. Politically one could cause problems b/c engineers don't like to be criticized and might even question the motivation for calling. Mastering engineers put each other down enough without giving anyone extra ammunition like "...that AH called me to tell me my gear was screwed up".

[Phil Demetro]

Andy Krehm wrote on Sat, 02 December 2006 17:13

Phil Demetro wrote on Sat, 02 December 2006 11:53 Andy Krehm wrote on Sat, 02 December 2006 10:49 Phil Demetro wrote on Fri, 01 December 2006 23:40 Masterer wrote on Fri, 01 December 2006 21:13 Feels like it's pullin' when it should be pushin' when the phase is "out" I recently won a shootout with a local ME cause his "peaks" were inverted. I guess the producer lined 'em all up in his Protools and noticed it visually first.... 'course mine sounded better anyway! Phil I've only lost one local shoot-out in the last year (and that was due to the label's decision, not the producer) so it probably wasn't me! (LOL) But if it was me, would you have let me know about the waveform problem? It was with 3 other local ME's...all guys you know. You definitely would have known if you were in it 'cause the producer was quite open to everyone about it. He called everyone back, too. He told me he found the whole thing "educational". So did I, actually. Andy, I know that you are on here a lot so I would never post a bravado comment like "I won over so and so" if it was you. I know that you might read that. This is not my style at all. I'm very passive -aggressive so tongue-in-cheek humour is more my style. But my track did sound better! Wink-wink nudge-nudge. Talk about being putting me on the spot for your second comment. This gets me thinking now... because I didn't call the other ME about his problem. Was I wrong not to do so? Maybe I should have? I'll have to be honest here and say that I remember not caring that much about it. Because I've really started to focus on "me" more and what "I'm" doing. I really like what I'm doing lately and that's probably because of me foscing on me. Basically my only rule in calling others is -  if there is stolen gear floating around locally, or if a client who didn't pay his bill here was calling other studios to pull the same trick. Believe me, I would call you and others in cases like this. As for the peak inversion...I've spent that last 6 years making every mistake (some things more than once) , f*****g everything up imaginable (some more than twice)! But ... I figured out the whole pin2/3 thing long ago - on several 1630 real time transfers - a huge waste of time! Ed Littman's case is excuseable because he started over completely from scratch from what i can tell...normal everyday stuff. He'll find the problem. The other studio in Toronto has several ME's, and an in-house tech or two -  so I don't feel obliged to help out there. Seems lazy to me... or just an oversight. It's no doubt fixed now. Hmmm. or maybe not? I'm still wondering if I should have called now. Would you have called? phil Well, I know we both compete in the same market place but b/c we hang out on the same web boards, and do the odd PM, I think of you also as a colleague and so probably would have let you know if I spotted a technical problem like that. But the other guy? Not likely. Politically one could cause problems b/c engineers don't like to be criticized and might even question the motivation for calling. Mastering engineers put each other down enough without giving anyone extra ammunition like "...that AH called me to tell me my gear was screwed up".

Man, alright... talk about putting me to shame...
We're "colleagues" now. Expect a phone call from me sooner or later (now see what you've done?)

phil

[Andy Krehm]

Phil Demetro wrote on Sat, 02 December 2006 17:28

Andy Krehm wrote on Sat, 02 December 2006 17:13 Phil Demetro wrote on Sat, 02 December 2006 11:53 Andy Krehm wrote on Sat, 02 December 2006 10:49 Phil Demetro wrote on Fri, 01 December 2006 23:40 Masterer wrote on Fri, 01 December 2006 21:13 Feels like it's pullin' when it should be pushin' when the phase is "out" I recently won a shootout with a local ME cause his "peaks" were inverted. I guess the producer lined 'em all up in his Protools and noticed it visually first.... 'course mine sounded better anyway! Phil I've only lost one local shoot-out in the last year (and that was due to the label's decision, not the producer) so it probably wasn't me! (LOL) But if it was me, would you have let me know about the waveform problem? It was with 3 other local ME's...all guys you know. You definitely would have known if you were in it 'cause the producer was quite open to everyone about it. He called everyone back, too. He told me he found the whole thing "educational". So did I, actually. Andy, I know that you are on here a lot so I would never post a bravado comment like "I won over so and so" if it was you. I know that you might read that. This is not my style at all. I'm very passive -aggressive so tongue-in-cheek humour is more my style. But my track did sound better! Wink-wink nudge-nudge. Talk about being putting me on the spot for your second comment. This gets me thinking now... because I didn't call the other ME about his problem. Was I wrong not to do so? Maybe I should have? I'll have to be honest here and say that I remember not caring that much about it. Because I've really started to focus on "me" more and what "I'm" doing. I really like what I'm doing lately and that's probably because of me foscing on me. Basically my only rule in calling others is -  if there is stolen gear floating around locally, or if a client who didn't pay his bill here was calling other studios to pull the same trick. Believe me, I would call you and others in cases like this. As for the peak inversion...I've spent that last 6 years making every mistake (some things more than once) , f*****g everything up imaginable (some more than twice)! But ... I figured out the whole pin2/3 thing long ago - on several 1630 real time transfers - a huge waste of time! Ed Littman's case is excuseable because he started over completely from scratch from what i can tell...normal everyday stuff. He'll find the problem. The other studio in Toronto has several ME's, and an in-house tech or two -  so I don't feel obliged to help out there. Seems lazy to me... or just an oversight. It's no doubt fixed now. Hmmm. or maybe not? I'm still wondering if I should have called now. Would you have called? phil Well, I know we both compete in the same market place but b/c we hang out on the same web boards, and do the odd PM, I think of you also as a colleague and so probably would have let you know if I spotted a technical problem like that. But the other guy? Not likely. Politically one could cause problems b/c engineers don't like to be criticized and might even question the motivation for calling. Mastering engineers put each other down enough without giving anyone extra ammunition like "...that AH called me to tell me my gear was screwed up". Man, alright... talk about putting me to shame... We're "colleagues" now. Expect a phone call from me sooner or later (now see what you've done?) phil

Never mind, enough of this "colleague stuff"! Are you ready to go head to head on the next shoot-out?

[Phil Demetro]

Andy Krehm wrote on Sat, 02 December 2006 17:35

Never mind, enough of this "colleague stuff"! Are you ready to go head to head on the next shoot-out?

As long as I'm getting paid for it I'm up for anything!

Actually, having Noah Mintz and George Graves around on a daily basis is great in that there is a -huge- wealth of opinions, resources, and techniques to go over. I'm lucky. It's almost silly trying to sort all the stuff out. We constantly burst in on each others sessions with something different to try or some new trick to blow each other away. I can't think of too many places where that happens. Very old school (George is in his early 60's) and new school stuff (me and Noah are in our late teens). We compare music frequently and there's always something that will open your eyes. The stuff is always good so it really comes down to personal taste. It's amazing how different the same song can sound. 'Course my tracks always sound best.

At the same time and for the same reasons -  problems get solved very quickly, as well.

phil

[Gold]

TurtleTone wrote on Sat, 02 December 2006 09:43

This reminds me of a session I did many many years ago with Rob Fraboni.

That reminds me of a session I did with him. He spent a lot of time on mic palcement and drum tuning. I don't think there was the budget for full mania. He was loath to touch an EQ. In the middle of a take the snare drum went out of tune. I didn't notice. He let the take finish and retuned. The drums sounded much better. It was one of those ahaa moments.

[michal @ mytek]

Ed Littman wrote on Fri, 01 December 2006 03:34

I just recently re- wired my whole mastering desk to install a Crookwod analog router. After a couple of days of getting the patches all worked out with Crispin I got back to work….it’s a great unit. Today, by chance I found that my captured  files are %100 out of phase from input. My first thought was that it’s the router, so I pulled it & all the gear & just plugged my Mytek DAC strait in to my  Hedd ADC. I recorded a few tests & both analog/digital captures were still  flipped. The router & analog gear are innocent. I also checked a project before I rewired & all was OK as it should be. Is my problem the ADC or DAC feeding it? I double checked my connections & sound cards. even if they were wrong the problem would be L/R issues not polarity. What could I have done to  create my capture to be upside down?? I wanted to get some feed back before contacting Dave or Michal Thanks, Ed

Hi Ed

I'm positive neither the 8X96ADC nor DAC invert phase. They are designed not to invert.

My guess me that I'd test it old fashion way- first Mytek ADC>DAC only - if it's inverted- check wiring and patchbay. And if it's ok than just add another pieces one by one while checking their wiring until you find it.

Happy New Year

Michal at www.mytekdigital.com

[Sonovo]

Hi Ed,

I believe I read somewhere in the thread that you had removed the Crookwood from the chain. If so, please disregard the rest of my post.

While I love my iMon (and everyone should have one! Well, except Chris, he's got that custom made Muth stuff in his room  ), I belive Crispin outsources the cabling to a subcontractor.

When I received mine, I spent a quite a few hours the first few weeks tracking down silly problems (With all inserts active strange things happened, depending on the order inserted I got a phase reversal on either the M or S channel, among other things).

It turns out that there were several problems with the breakout cables and how they were wired. When we got that sorted out, everything worked perfectly since.

In fairness, Crispin provided support way above and beyond what I would expect from most manufacturers, and really worked to help us locate and correct all issues as quickly as possible.

Cheers,
Thor

[Ed Littman]

Thor Legvold wrote on Sat, 06 January 2007 20:03

Hi When I received mine, I spent a quite a few hours the first few weeks tracking down silly problems (With all inserts active strange things happened, depending on the order inserted I got a phase reversal on either the M or S channel, among other things). It turns out that there were several problems with the breakout cables and how they were wired. When we got that sorted out, everything worked perfectly since. In fairness, Crispin provided support way above and beyond what I would expect from most manufacturers, and really worked to help us locate and correct all issues as quickly as possible. Cheers, Thor

Yes, thats what it was ....a swithced wire in the breakout cable.
The first thing i did was pull the crookwood out, but i still had some issues that were intermittent (all phase related)thats why I did not think it was the crookwood....very confusing.
so I pulled out all my cabling & reorganised/repatched. doing this allowed consistant results that led me to the breakout cable.
Now I'm right side up

Ed

[Jerry Tubb]

Ed Littman wrote on Sat, 06 January 2007 21:12

Yes, thats what it was ....a swithced wire in the breakout cable. The first thing i did was pull the crookwood out, but i still had some issues that were intermittent (all phase related)thats why I did not think it was the crookwood....very confusing. so I pulled out all my cabling & reorganised/repatched. doing this allowed consistant results that led me to the breakout cable. Now I'm right side up

Ed, glad to hear you got it sorted out.

So the guilty dog was a third party cable with poor QC(?)

Good to know it wasn't inside the Crookwood.

These problems can be maddening, and take waaay too much time away from our work.

Cheers -JT