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Author Topic: IMP8 mix discussion.  (Read 8193 times)

j.hall

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Re: IMP8 mix discussion.
« Reply #75 on: December 18, 2006, 10:15:46 am »

with a piece like this, and a singer as skilled at being expressive as he is, there is no reason to attempt to tune the vocal.  obvious to all of us, the piano bleed into the vocal mic is too great to pull off a smooth tuning.  on top of that, it just kills the vibe of a piece like this.

if he hits a bad note, focus less on the bad note and focus more on how to capitalize off it.  bob dylan has been doing this to great success for YEARS.

this is a perfect example of when to take your technical prowess and put it away for a moment.
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j.hall

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Re: IMP8 mix discussion.
« Reply #76 on: December 18, 2006, 10:45:43 am »

chrisj, welcome to the hot seat.  (you sorta did this to yourself by mentioning it)

your piano treatment is really nice.  right off the bat, i want to listen a bit further to see how things develope.  you used the sharp attack of the piano to your advantage in a nice way.  the bottom end of the piano is pretty thin, but can be excused for the moment.

the vocal comes in.  this is when i would turn it off.  the vocal effects don't match the piano.  90% of the listeners (educated in audio or not) want a solo piano and vocal performance to sit in the same space.  mentally, they are visualizing a guy at a piano, playing and singing at the same time, i.e. elton john.  i think we all agree on this.

so, with that in mind, your vocal treatment, doesn't match the piano.

the plosives on the vocal mic are distracting.  roll off the vocal mic until the bottom of his actual voice rolls off.

i want to hear that vocal compressed hard to give it the same edge your piano has.  visualize these two elements as one.  marry them, literally.  think of all the stereotypes you have a piano playing singer and ldo not hesitate to play into them.

if the piano has a sharp attack, make his vocal identical.  

in songs like this i will pay closer attention to lyrical content.  if the song has a darker lyrical point, i might make the mix dark to instantly put your mind into that place.  OR, i might make it very bright and smooth to keep a person from killing themselves when they really dig into the lyrics.  you have to focus a mix like this around the only elements you have....piano, vocal, lyrics.

if you have time, i'd like to hear a recall, i do not expect it, but it would be cool to hear how my comments shift your focus and see what you might do with it now.

i'm going to do two more of these in the next few days.
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chrisj

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Re: IMP8 mix discussion.
« Reply #77 on: December 19, 2006, 12:37:26 am »

j.hall wrote on Mon, 18 December 2006 10:45

if you have time, i'd like to hear a recall, i do not expect it, but it would be cool to hear how my comments shift your focus and see what you might do with it now.


I'd like people to have the impression that I'm a good person to ask for stuff, so of course you can have that- here.

http://download.yousendit.com/795460CF0EE14AFE

Here's what happened. I ditched the no-EQ experiment in order to do the stuff you asked for- more bass on the piano, de-pop roll-offs and such things. There's an air boost on the vox, a really narrow sheen boost on the piano, a 'body' boost low in the vox and the bass boost on the piano.

I started throwing on compression (actually a sort of limiter I like) on the vox and pushing it a lot harder, slowing down the attack, and the articulation and animation of the vocals started to jump up until I was able to make it go in front of and dominate the piano, or set back and lay behind the piano. So I made them match like you suggested.

I think it worked, man- thanks bigtime- can you follow up on the revision and render an opinion on whether you think it worked?

j.hall

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Re: IMP8 mix discussion.
« Reply #78 on: December 19, 2006, 11:00:26 am »

chrisj wrote on Mon, 18 December 2006 23:37

can you follow up on the revision and render an opinion on whether you think it worked?



certainly.

the piano is more inviting, i'd still go bigger on the bottom, but this works.  

the vocal is so much better.  it's a touch muddy, but i can live with it.  i'm wanting the vocal to be compressed a bit harder with a slow attack.  you've got it super smooth, which is great, i'm just wanting some edge to it.

yeah chris, this is really good.  any of the above comments are just nit picking.  as the track developes i'm less prone to comment on the the slightly muddy vocal tone.

if this mix were on a record i'd think nothing of it.  thanks for doing the recall.  i hope my comments were helpful to you for future application.

the track just ended, man that is night and day compared to your first version, SO MUCH more inviting and intimate.  you made me keep listening, which is hard to do for a song i've heard a thousand times.
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chrisj

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Re: IMP8 mix discussion.
« Reply #79 on: December 19, 2006, 05:41:40 pm »

Thanks hugely- as for whether your comments are useful going forward, OH HELL YES.

Looking forward to the next IMP...
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