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Author Topic: Mr Lavry's forum is gone.  (Read 20124 times)

Revolution

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Re: Mr Lavry's forum is gone.
« Reply #45 on: November 22, 2006, 10:51:57 pm »

I guess Mr Lavry is the latest victim along with Mr Oram and Mr Neumann to fall fowl of the Pro Audio Maffia.

And on and on it goes.

jfrigo

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Re: Mr Lavry's forum is gone.
« Reply #46 on: November 22, 2006, 11:12:03 pm »

Lucas van der Mee wrote on Tue, 21 November 2006 13:38

...Dan had no problem deleting our posts and other's who supported our opinion, when he did not like the contents.


Brad's comment about the log seems at odds:
http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/m/194045/934/#msg _194045
But I suppose it matters not one way or the other. What's done is done, and I think all have had their say by now.
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sui-city

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Re: Mr Lavry's forum is gone.
« Reply #47 on: November 23, 2006, 01:46:13 am »

Logichead wrote on Thu, 23 November 2006 04:20



I got into one of these kerfuffals with Dan awhile back - my point was that I heard a sonic improvement when I added a Big Ben to my rig. Do I know or care what the jitter measurements were? It sounded better!




Whether it sounds better or not, was not the issue. It was how Apgoee justifies the improvement in its marketing, with no ACTUAL technical data to prove their claims.

I have heard a Big Ben improve the quality of audio myself, but nobody has explained why without their being some VERY liberal marketing-interpretations of science.
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Ashermusic

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Re: Mr Lavry's forum is gone.
« Reply #48 on: November 23, 2006, 02:34:17 am »

Fletcher wrote on Thu, 23 November 2006 02:12

1) Lavry calls Fletcher & Herman shanda fur die goyim... to which Fletcher laughs... Lavry is ongepotchehket.  

2) Lavry says that Mercenary was fired when the TRUTH was that Lavry said "we only take Mastercard and Visa" to which Mercenary said "fershtinkiner, tsutcheppenish took our checks before? Vus mach da?"  

3) Shmendrick was removed uncermoniously because ceremony was unbefitting the occurance.  Who's the shtunk?  Who knows?  Who cares?

4) Lavry the svantz continues to make a tsimmes out of it continuing to call Fletcher a shanda to which Fletcher gets ver clempt [sarcasm].

5) It's a zetz to thinking people that you allow the messugina yenta to front your company.

6 & 7) [because I'm getting bored of this] Lavry can go fuck himself.

Mr. Lavry, please go mind your shop.  I agree with Mr. Herman [who FYI isn't the owner here, but he's still my boss as I used to be your boss until my boss sent you and your mishegos packing]... you need to be gone.


Fletcher your stereotypical use of Yiddish is about as funny as Michael Richard's tiraded and can only lead to one conclusion; You are a potz.
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Fletcher

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Re: Mr Lavry's forum is gone.
« Reply #49 on: November 23, 2006, 03:18:30 am »

malice wrote on Wed, 22 November 2006 22:36

otoh, he makes killer converters. And clocking lesser ones with them results in significant improvement.


Which ironically goes against the original premise that "internal clocking is significantly superior to external clocking".

Revolution wrote on Wed, 22 November 2006 22:51

I guess Mr Lavry is the latest victim along with Mr Oram and Mr Neumann to fall fowl of the Pro Audio Maffia.


Last I heard Mr. Neumann is dead, his former company is owned by some very nice [though in some ways misguided but nice none the less] people in a small town in the former GDR part of Germany.  If you're talking about the jerks in Connecticut who run the subsidiary of Sennheiser then I reckon you're kinda on target.  Sorry, but life is to short to suffer fools with gladly.  

Oh, and there is generally only 1x"f" in Mafia... unless you know something I don't know [besides, there is no Mafia... I could introduce you to a couple of guys I know who are connected to LCN and they'll swear up and down there is no such thing as the "mafia"].

sui-city wrote on Thu, 23 November 2006 01:46


I have heard a Big Ben improve the quality of audio myself, but nobody has explained why without their being some VERY liberal marketing-interpretations of science.


With all due respect, I know I've made quite a few records in my lifetime, during that time I have recorded a whole lotta music but never any specifications.  As a layman I would reckon that the reason you found the Big Ben improve the quality of the audio is because it puts some distortion [jitter] in a region you find musically pleasing... which at the end of the day is all you [or at least all I] can ask from any tool involved in the music making process.  BTW, I think they both, Lavry as well as Apogee are buried by the iZ Radar so what the hell do I know except how to hit some buttons and record a record.

Ashermusic wrote on Thu, 23 November 2006 02:34


Fletcher your stereotypical use of Yiddish is about as funny as Michael Richard's tiraded and can only lead to one conclusion; You are a potz.


I always spelled it "putz" but that's cool.  I'm not really fluent in Yiddish... learned a little bit from my father when I was growing up... almost enough so I could hang in Walter Yetnikoff's world during the early 80's when it was still CBS but not enough to hold a conversation in real time.

I saw Michael Richard's shtick a dozen or so years ago [pre-Seinfeld] at the Laugh Factory on Sunset... he wasn't funny then either.  I have no idea how he has ever landed a comedic gig... but if I really understood the ways of Hollywood I'd be rich now.

All I can say about your post is "he started it".
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CN Fletcher

mwagener wrote on Sat, 11 September 2004 14:33
We are selling emotions, there are no emotions in a grid


"Recording engineers are an arrogant bunch.  
If you've spent most of your life with a few thousand dollars worth of musicians in the studio, making a decision every second and a half... and you and  they are going to have to live with it for the rest of your lives, you'll get pretty arrogant too.  It takes a certain amount of balls to do that... something around three"
Malcolm Chisholm

malice

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Re: Mr Lavry's forum is gone.
« Reply #50 on: November 23, 2006, 04:14:45 am »

Fletcher wrote on Thu, 23 November 2006 09:18

malice wrote on Wed, 22 November 2006 22:36

otoh, he makes killer converters. And clocking lesser ones with them results in significant improvement.


Which ironically goes against the original premise that "internal clocking is significantly superior to external clocking".



The thing is : I won't spend the day reading about a full technical report over the subject. This is all geek talk to me.

Now if you start a technical forum, I guess it is only fair to discuss about technical stuff.

I'm just being the devil advocate here, but it seemed to me that the core of this big clusterfuck is that you have one one side a guy that argue on a 100% technical level disclaiming any improvement that science cannot backup, and on the other hand someone that says : "but it works" and that does not backup what it says with numbers.

But in the end, within a 100% geek forum, I guess you should be able to backup your claims with numbers, epecially if you're a designer.

Now if you ask me, I'm more the guy hanging at "whatever works".

Give me a Big Ben, give me a Lavry, give me whatever you have, I'll pick whatever sounds best to my ears without even opening the owner manual.

Where are those owner manuals anyway, damn it.

malice

Yannick Willox

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Re: Mr Lavry's forum is gone.
« Reply #51 on: November 23, 2006, 06:36:18 am »

New here is an interesting idea:

who dares to put this question about external ref clocks in the new forum ?
Twisted Evil
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malice

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Re: Mr Lavry's forum is gone.
« Reply #52 on: November 23, 2006, 06:49:16 am »

Yannick Willox wrote on Thu, 23 November 2006 12:36

New here is an interesting idea:

who dares to put this question about external ref clocks in the new forum ?
Twisted Evil


Yannick, you know the trouble maker I am.

Don't tempt me  Twisted Evil

malice

Fletcher

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Re: Mr Lavry's forum is gone.
« Reply #53 on: November 23, 2006, 09:12:18 am »

malice wrote on Thu, 23 November 2006 04:14

But in the end, within a 100% geek forum, I guess you should be able to backup your claims with numbers, epecially if you're a designer.


I am sure there is palpable and identifyable science to support the claim but I dare say it will involve psycho acoustic phenomenon which is probably over the head of most folk here... but psycho acoustic phenomenon is also what is behind things like "phase shift" we find musically pleasing in transformers, it also encompasses frequency response characteristics as well as headroom characteristics.

The "science" is a means to an end, that end being the musical sounding presentation of recorded product.

Yes, it is was a "geek" forum, but it is a "geek" forum in the middle of a set of recording forums.  Dave Hecht's tech forum is also a "geek" forum as is Klaus Heyne's mic lab, etc.  The part that is missing is that somewhere between "jitter" specifications and why people like NOS "Mullard" tubes better than Sovtec tubes is the music... which is what we built this place to serve... the music.

I think it would be a great thing for this question to be raised in Bruno's forum... and I would welcome Mr. Lavry to contribute to the thread as it will be moderated by a man of science with absolutely no alligence nor agenda.

Peace.
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CN Fletcher

mwagener wrote on Sat, 11 September 2004 14:33
We are selling emotions, there are no emotions in a grid


"Recording engineers are an arrogant bunch.  
If you've spent most of your life with a few thousand dollars worth of musicians in the studio, making a decision every second and a half... and you and  they are going to have to live with it for the rest of your lives, you'll get pretty arrogant too.  It takes a certain amount of balls to do that... something around three"
Malcolm Chisholm

malice

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Re: Mr Lavry's forum is gone.
« Reply #54 on: November 23, 2006, 09:15:21 am »

Fletcher wrote on Thu, 23 November 2006 15:12

malice wrote on Thu, 23 November 2006 04:14

But in the end, within a 100% geek forum, I guess you should be able to backup your claims with numbers, epecially if you're a designer.


I am sure there is palpable and identifyable science to support the claim but I dare say it will involve psycho acoustic phenomenon which is probably over the head of most folk here... but psycho acoustic phenomenon is also what is behind things like "phase shift" we find musically pleasing in transformers, it also encompasses frequency response characteristics as well as headroom characteristics.

The "science" is a means to an end, that end being the musical sounding presentation of recorded product.

Yes, it is was a "geek" forum, but it is a "geek" forum in the middle of a set of recording forums.  Dave Hecht's tech forum is also a "geek" forum as is Klaus Heyne's mic lab, etc.  The part that is missing is that somewhere between "jitter" specifications and why people like NOS "Mullard" tubes better than Sovtec tubes is the music... which is what we built this place to serve... the music.

I think it would be a great thing for this question to be raised in Bruno's forum... and I would welcome Mr. Lavry to contribute to the thread as it will be moderated by a man of science with absolutely no alligence nor agenda.

Peace.




Fair enough Fletcher, I think it is a great response and proposal.

malice

sui-city

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Re: Mr Lavry's forum is gone.
« Reply #55 on: November 23, 2006, 11:14:56 am »

Fletcher wrote on Thu, 23 November 2006 16:12



I think it would be a great thing for this question to be raised in Bruno's forum... and I would welcome Mr. Lavry to contribute to the thread as it will be moderated by a man of science with absolutely no alligence nor agenda.

Peace.



Last i checked it was spelled "allegiance"
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sui-city

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Re: Mr Lavry's forum is gone.
« Reply #56 on: November 23, 2006, 11:26:17 am »

Fletcher wrote on Thu, 23 November 2006 10:18

malice wrote on Wed, 22 November 2006 22:36

otoh, he makes killer converters. And clocking lesser ones with them results in significant improvement.


Which ironically goes against the original premise that "internal clocking is significantly superior to external clocking".


Dan never argued that internal clocks COULDN'T be improved by an external clock. He argued that if an internal clock was improved by an external clock, then the inernal clock was one of poor design.

Fletcher wrote on Thu, 23 November 2006 10:18

sui-city wrote on Thu, 23 November 2006 01:46


I have heard a Big Ben improve the quality of audio myself, but nobody has explained why without their being some VERY liberal marketing-interpretations of science.


With all due respect, I know I've made quite a few records in my lifetime, during that time I have recorded a whole lotta music but never any specifications.  As a layman I would reckon that the reason you found the Big Ben improve the quality of the audio is because it puts some distortion [jitter] in a region you find musically pleasing... which at the end of the day is all you [or at least all I] can ask from any tool involved in the music making process.  BTW, I think they both, Lavry as well as Apogee are buried by the iZ Radar so what the hell do I know except how to hit some buttons and record a record.


I know you have made records, and Fletcher , with all due respect to you, that doesn't mean you know it all.

I greatly appreciate many of your insights that you choose to share with all of us, but sometimes your ego gets squarely in the way too.

This has turned into a pissing contest, and it is a great disappointment.

Sometimes i found Dan's arguments to be poorly worded, but the jist of his arguments were always spot on. He questioned the validity of the MARKETING STATEMENTS being made. For a long period of time Apogee were all about the ACCURACY of the Big Ben.

If the sonic improvements were due to some carefully placed "distortion/jitter", then they should have been open about it.


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Ashermusic

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Re: Mr Lavry's forum is gone.
« Reply #57 on: November 23, 2006, 11:35:23 am »

Fletcher wrote on Thu, 23 November 2006 08:18

Ashermusic wrote on Thu, 23 November 2006 02:34


Fletcher your stereotypical use of Yiddish is about as funny as Michael Richard's tiraded and can only lead to one conclusion; You are a potz.


I always spelled it "putz" but that's cool.  I'm not really fluent in Yiddish... learned a little bit from my father when I was growing up... almost enough so I could hang in Walter Yetnikoff's world during the early 80's when it was still CBS but not enough to hold a conversation in real time.

I saw Michael Richard's shtick a dozen or so years ago [pre-Seinfeld] at the Laugh Factory on Sunset... he wasn't funny then either.  I have no idea how he has ever landed a comedic gig... but if I really understood the ways of Hollywood I'd be rich now.

All I can say about your post is "he started it".


Putz is the Anglicized version which has come to mean loser, schmo, sucker, etc.

Potz literally means penis or prick and that is what I meant to call you for your tasteless exercise.
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Ashermusic

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Re: Mr Lavry's forum is gone.
« Reply #58 on: November 23, 2006, 11:46:02 am »

So let me sum it up here.

For a lot of folks here when hooking up a Big Ben, which is only a clock (and if I am wrong someone please correct me because then my argument falls apart) to a single decent audio interface i.e. a RME  Fireface which adds more jitter to the converrsion, which unlike analog distorion no one has ever claimed is aesthetically pleasing, somehow results in a more pleasing sound because of some psychoacoustical properties.

And they know this because that is what they hear and they "trust their ears".

I see. Let's all meet at midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil and mix up some potions and spin some dead cats around so we can REALLY make some good sounding stuff.
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malice

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Re: Mr Lavry's forum is gone.
« Reply #59 on: November 23, 2006, 11:54:31 am »

Ashermusic wrote on Thu, 23 November 2006 17:46


For a lot of folks here when hooking up a Big Ben, which is only a clock (and if I am wrong someone please correct me because then my argument falls apart) to a single decent audio interface i.e. a RME  Fireface which adds more jitter to the converrsion, which unlike analog distorion no one has ever claimed is aesthetically pleasing,



That is because you never heard vintage jitter.

malice
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