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Author Topic: An Inconvenient Truth  (Read 184877 times)

thedommer

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Re: An Inconvenient Truth
« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2006, 03:20:56 PM »

rnicklaus wrote on Wed, 15 November 2006 14:09

thedommer wrote on Wed, 15 November 2006 12:01



so what your saying is that if I buy a small car north korea will notice? and stop their nuke program...?

dont they already have small cars there? doenst seem to have helped.


So what you are saying is that since N Korea has nukes, nothing else matters?





haha. no. I was just adding my bit on crazy people.

btw does this mean I cant buy the newest ipod every 6 months? Because im not sure if I can stop that. it just looks so cool. and like every 6 months it looks even cooler. HOW CAN I GIVE THAT UP????
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Ross Hogarth

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Re: An Inconvenient Truth
« Reply #16 on: November 15, 2006, 03:21:06 PM »

thedommer wrote on Wed, 15 November 2006 12:01

Ross Hogarth wrote on Wed, 15 November 2006 13:58

thedommer wrote on Wed, 15 November 2006 11:50

To be honest none of it is that important. getting a smaller car doesnt stop crazy dictators from launching nukes... Smile



this is the crux of the matter
people believe it does not matter
but the truth of it is
that it all matters
every little thing matters
and every little thing builds into one bigger thing
and then
our world leaders take note
the car builders take note
it actually can make a difference
just like this little thread
we might equate to a bunch of flies on a cows ass as you go down the road
at 70 mph
but if you look close
we are there buzzing away bit by bit



so what your saying is that if I buy a small car north korea will notice? and stop their nuke program...?

dont they already have small cars there? doenst seem to have helped.


Where did  I ever start a conversation about North Korea ?
You are the one discussing North Korea
I am discussing global warming
sorry ... I'm not planning on a political discussion about North Korea


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The practice of forgiveness is our most important contribution to the healing of the world.

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wwittman

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Re: An Inconvenient Truth
« Reply #17 on: November 15, 2006, 03:32:11 PM »

the point is (or should be) that the fact that for example China (!) has more stringent emission standards than the U.S. DOES "make a difference"

making a difference is not defined as solving the entire problem in one swoop.. it's the collective contribution of things, some small and some bigger.
but every little thing "makes a difference"


Ross started this by suggesting you see the movie.

Let me suggest the same thing.

It's extremely well done, and CONVINCING, as well as ultimately hopeful.

instead of bickering about what you think you already know.. see it and see what you might NOT know.

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Ross Hogarth

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Re: An Inconvenient Truth
« Reply #18 on: November 15, 2006, 03:45:30 PM »

wwittman wrote on Wed, 15 November 2006 12:32

the point is (or should be) that the fact that for example China (!) has more stringent emission standards than the US DOES "make a difference"

making a difference is not defined as solving the entire problme in one swoop.. it's the collective contribution of things, some small and some bigger.
but every little thing "makes a difference"


Roos started this by suggesting you see the movie.

Let me suggest the same thing.

It's extremely well done, and CONVINCING, as well as ultimately hopeful.

instead of bickering about what you think you already know.. see it and see what you might NOT know.





ww ...thank you ...well said
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The practice of forgiveness is our most important contribution to the healing of the world.

The standard of success in life isn't the things. It isn't the money or the stuff. It is absolutely the amount of joy that you feel.

www.hoaxproductions.com

thedommer

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Re: An Inconvenient Truth
« Reply #19 on: November 15, 2006, 03:50:22 PM »

cooool. Ive actually had a few people recommend it to me. Ill see it when I get a chance.
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McAllister

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Re: An Inconvenient Truth
« Reply #20 on: November 15, 2006, 04:09:19 PM »

I've not seen the film. About a year ago I heard Senator John McCain talk on the subject. He admitted to toeing the party line about 5 years ago; dismissing global warming was even happening. However, he kept an open mind, listened to scientists from around the world (especially those with no political agenda) and has changed his mind rather dramatically.

Small changes, that individuals make, can add up to major differences. Driving less (or even driving a little bit slower), combining errands, recycling, small reduction of water and electrical consumption, change thermostat settings by a few degrees, insulate, compost, reuse, donate, etc.

A hundred small ways to make a small difference to your life. Will everyone do these things? No. But you can not control what anyone else does, only what you do. Do what you can.

- - -

I have: bought a much more fuel efficient car (it was time for a replacement; old engine blew); I'll keep this car for at least 150k miles; I try to drive no faster than 60 mph; we bring a couple of cloth sacks to the grocery store; other plastic & paper bags we accrue are reused as trash bags; we recycle.

I'd like to plant a garden, too.

M
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Version

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Re: An Inconvenient Truth
« Reply #21 on: November 15, 2006, 04:11:17 PM »

driving up the PCH from Huntington beach on Monday morning I saw the nastiest cloud of brown just hanging over Long Beach and LA.

You guys down there in SoCal are probably the worst polluters in the country. do something about it.
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Ozzy

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Re: An Inconvenient Truth
« Reply #22 on: November 15, 2006, 04:19:30 PM »

Kyoto is a start, something is better than nothing.
It doesn't go far enough true but I'm afraid it already goes too far for the USA.

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el duderino

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Re: An Inconvenient Truth
« Reply #23 on: November 15, 2006, 04:30:12 PM »

funny you should mention the so cal smog, i read on cnn the other day that the film industry produces more air pollution in the five county LA region than aerospace manufacturing, apparel, hotels and semiconductor manufacturing. a bit ironic.

I'm all for saving the planet, I just find it a bit difficult in certain ways.

someone mentioned we  should all buy cars that get 30mpg. I agree (tho i think it should be even higher) but what amazes me is that no politician has the balls to make it a requirement for car companies that ALL their cars do this in order to be sold in the USA. maybe they could have an exception for those people who can and will spend 1/2 a mil on a lamborghini that gets 2mpg. you know, any car that gets less than 30 mpg MUST be sold for 1/2 a mil or higher, with a provision built in to adjust for inflation annually. Otherwise it'll end up like NYC's rent controlled apartments, but i digress.

If anyone owns a home, adding solar power is a great idea. saves you money plus depending where you are there a ton of tax deductions available.

write your congressman.
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The2and4

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Re: An Inconvenient Truth
« Reply #24 on: November 15, 2006, 04:44:00 PM »

Assman wrote on Wed, 15 November 2006 21:30

funny you should mention the so cal smog, i read on cnn the other day that the film industry produces more air pollution in the five county LA region than aerospace manufacturing, apparel, hotels and semiconductor manufacturing.


ouch!

I've noticed that Prius sightings are increasing over Mercedes sightings here in my neck of the woods.  Movie makers might be smog makers, but they sher like buyin' the shiniest, newest, cutest little gas sipping machines!!

I'm just curious..

If we all go out and buy new fuel efficient vehicles, isn't that sort of like upgrading to the newest cell phone...but on a much more trumongous scale?

How much energy does it take to manufacture this new vehicle vs. the amount of energy saved by the efficiency of the new car?  How many miles will the car travel before it makes up that difference?  Will it be time for a shiny new car before that time comes?
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thedommer

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Re: An Inconvenient Truth
« Reply #25 on: November 15, 2006, 04:50:19 PM »

The2and4 wrote on Wed, 15 November 2006 15:44

Assman wrote on Wed, 15 November 2006 21:30

funny you should mention the so cal smog, i read on cnn the other day that the film industry produces more air pollution in the five county LA region than aerospace manufacturing, apparel, hotels and semiconductor manufacturing.


ouch!

I've noticed that Prius sightings are increasing over Mercedes sightings here in my neck of the woods.  Movie makers might be smog makers, but they sher like buyin' the shiniest, newest, cutest little gas sipping machines!!

I'm just curious..

If we all go out and buy new fuel efficient vehicles, isn't that sort of like upgrading to the newest cell phone...but on a much more trumongous scale?

How much energy does it take to manufacture this new vehicle vs. the amount of energy saved by the efficiency of the new car?  How many miles will the car travel before it makes up that difference?  Will it be time for a shiny new car before that time comes?


ive always wondered that too... and these hybrids... whats their life expectancy. not that im saying they are bad but all those points you raised could really make them less of the eco friendly car that they are said to be. of course I guess if people just slowly progress to these as they need a new car then eventually it will make sense.

personally I take public transport.
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Chrisso

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Re: An Inconvenient Truth
« Reply #26 on: November 15, 2006, 04:52:23 PM »

Australia, where I live, is the biggest polluter per capita than anywhere else.
Coming from Europe, I thought coal fired power stations were history and I was shocked to see such widespread mining and coal burning going on Down Under. Coal is Australia's biggest money earner exportwise.
For a country in the midst of a drought (the worst in 100 or 1000 years, depending on who you talk to), water re-use is practically nil and solar power is marginalised. Local councils will actually bar you from fitting solar panels to a house.
I despair when I see newer and bigger coal mines being planned. Apart from anything else, they are raping the landscape without regard to wildlife of the climate consequences. IMO they are blindly making all the same mistakes Europe and the US made in digging up or concreting over this stunning landscape, all in the pursuit of the short term dollar.
I haven't seen the Gore film, but knew what was going on. I also agree that his current work is far more important than anything he did in mainstream politics.
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Die BREMSSPUR

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Re: An Inconvenient Truth
« Reply #27 on: November 15, 2006, 04:53:51 PM »

Ozzy wrote on Wed, 15 November 2006 22:19

Kyoto is a start, something is better than nothing.
It doesn't go far enough true but I'm afraid it already goes too far for the USA.





Er...

I think Global Warming, China's emission standard, Kyoto, Al Gore is all a huge sham.

It runs counter to common sense, at least IMO.

Kyoto is the biggest joke ever.

What I think is great is "our" (mankind in general) push not to pollute the environment.  Solar, wind, hydrogen, whatever it takes not to pollute.  Been to Lake Erie lately?

I think the comment on N. Korea is really at the core of the issue however.

The point being the control and responsibility aspect of the future of our planet.

There is really no point in solar panels if we are still chopping  each other up wholesale.  So I agree, yes if N. Korea has nukes than nothing else matters.

I have much more interest in an open and free oil industry than I do in wondering what people in California have to lecture on.

Obviously it will be an aggregate outcome like always anyway.

In the meantime I guess it's cool to compromise on a ridculous car as long as you can continue to do what you have to to turn a buck.  Produce Chemicals, Burn fossil fuels to manufacture computers, print millions of CD's in plastic cases, build rockets...Whatever.


lemme nough....

tik
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compasspnt

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Re: An Inconvenient Truth
« Reply #28 on: November 15, 2006, 05:05:09 PM »

I have not yet seen the film, so cannot comment directly on it, but I worry in advance that it is as much politics as fact.   Hopefully that's incorrect.

Kyoto seems after the fact to be worse than not having it, for some of the nations that signed on.

There may well be little effect from what man does on the world environment as a whole...

BUT, having suspected all of that, I see nothing at all wrong with trying in every way we can to minimise any damage we might be doing.

WHY NOT try to emit fewer pollutants, consume fewer disposals, use mass transit where possible, install solar/wind power systems, save as much green forest as possible, etc.?  There is no harm in trying to do the right thing.

Ammortised over a period of several years, solar/wind power can even pay for itself.

In India they are starting to sell a lot of fully electric vehicles (not "just" hybrids).  These could also be charged from solar power to create inexpensive and clean urban transport.

http://www.revaindia.com/

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Ozzy

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Re: An Inconvenient Truth
« Reply #29 on: November 15, 2006, 05:23:12 PM »

The US, although a signatory to the protocol, has neither ratified nor withdrawn from the it. The signature alone is symbolic, as the protocol is non-binding over the US unless ratified. The US, as of 2005, is the largest single emitter of carbon dioxide from the burning of fossil fuel. The US doesn't ratify as it sees the agreement hampering their economic growth. As the think they'll lose out on the deal they refuse to play yet thay are the main contributer to the problem.

This is what is wrong with Kyoto.


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